Paris Shootings, Explosion & Hostage Crisis 11/13 | Page 5 | INFJ Forum

Paris Shootings, Explosion & Hostage Crisis 11/13

I actually know quite a few Muslims as I live in a highly transient area of the country. None of them have tried to kill me. Yet... :)

My point is I cringe that anyone would think all Muslims would be prone to act this way given the chance. I dont think we can say Islam is a religion of peace but we also cant say its one of war either. Its not like Christianity and Catholicism doesnt have its fair share of murder under its belt. Dont give me how long ago it happened. The nature of humans hasnt changed in 20 thousand years.. probably longer.
 
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I happen to believe that all religion is the cause of all this. Muslim, Christian, whatever your flavor. Anyone who denies this is failing to see that no other thing on the face of this planet - since the dawn of time - has caused more bloodshed and has taken more lives in the name of <insert god/s here> than religion. ANY religion. I think if people really want to start pointing fingers, they should start aiming at the humans who create these religions - not for spiritual solace, but for power and control of those that choose to believe in it. Condemn me or not, this is just my own unpopular opinion on the subject. But this isn't a religious debate, so I'll see my way out.
 
Free2be said:
I happen to believe that all religion is the cause of all this. Muslim, Christian, whatever your flavor. Anyone who denies this is failing to see that no other thing on the face of this planet - since the dawn of time - has caused more bloodshed and has taken more lives in the name of <insert god/s here> than religion. ANY religion. I think if people really want to start pointing fingers, they should start aiming at the humans who create these religions - not for spiritual solace, but for power and control of those that choose to believe in it. Condemn me or not, this is just my own unpopular opinion on the subject. But this isn't a religious debate, so I'll see my way out.
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If you're seeing you're way out, my door is open, and I have snuggles and minty tea ready for those who enter. Call me silly, but I believe in the midst of bloodshed, we could all use a warm cuppa. : )
 
hush said:
If you're seeing you're way out, my door is open, and I have snuggles and minty tea ready for those who enter. Call me silly, but I believe in the midst of bloodshed, we could all use a warm cuppa. : )
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Why thank you, a snuggle with a cuppa is exactly what this grumpy butt needs. <3
 
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Free2be said:
I happen to believe that all religion is the cause of all this. Muslim, Christian, whatever your flavor. Anyone who denies this is failing to see that no other thing on the face of this planet - since the dawn of time - has caused more bloodshed and has taken more lives in the name of <insert god/s here> than religion. ANY religion. I think if people really want to start pointing fingers, they should start aiming at the humans who create these religions - not for spiritual solace, but for power and control of those that choose to believe in it. Condemn me or not, this is just my own unpopular opinion on the subject. But this isn't a religious debate, so I'll see my way out.
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while i understand what you are saying, one or a small fraction is not indicative of the whole. Many (if not most) Muslims have condemned the actions in Paris (see [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]'s post). They take their Bible, their gospel, and distort and twist it to suit their own selfish desires. It does not line up with the true or well-accepted Muslim teachings.

While it's an understandable point to be it, it's a Fallacy of Hasty Generalization.
 
rawr said:
while i understand what you are saying, one or a small fraction is not indicative of the whole. Many (if not most) Muslims have condemned the actions in Paris (see [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]'s post). They take their Bible, their gospel, and distort and twist it to suit their own selfish desires. It does not line up with the true or well-accepted Muslim teachings.

While it's an understandable point to be it, it's a Fallacy of Hasty Generalization.
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hasty...and grumpy :(
 
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Free2be said:
hasty...and grumpy :(
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All I've got to offer is tea and snuggles - and not necessarily hasty, nor grumpy. This is a... difficult situation. Perspective is good. All I know, though, is that I want people to be well. He makes a good point. Ultimately, we are all human, and we are in this together. I think that is important to remember.

We are all human, being our weird selves, living our weird lives, but we do so together.
 
hush said:
All I've got to offer is tea and snuggles - and not necessarily hasty, nor grumpy. This is a... difficult situation. Perspective is good. All I know, though, is that I want people to be well. He makes a good point. Ultimately, we are all human, and we are in this together. I think that is important to remember.

We are all human, being our weird selves, living our weird lives, but we do so together.
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It's becoming evident that I am too emotionally invested in the unfolding events and am also projecting grieving anger from personal loss clouding my objectivity and rational thought. This is not the place to unload my chaotic thoughts and it is not in the spirit of humanism, I am sorry to all.
 
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Free2be said:
It's becoming evident that I am too emotionally invested in the unfolding events and am also projecting grieving anger from personal loss clouding my objectivity and rational thought. This is not the place to unload my chaotic thoughts and it is not in the spirit of humanism, I am sorry to all.
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My darling.

You are fine. Perfectly fine.

You have done absolutely nothing that merits an apology. Nothing.

People are dying and suffering. There is... so much going on. Such actions are inexcusable and an atrocity. There is no justification for deaths like this.

You are fine. *hugs*
 
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Skarekrow said:
Who is victim blaming?
This was carried out by a handful of assholes with crazy religious ideology, and we’re ready to blame the entire religion?

There are peaceful Muslims and there are those who hate the west.

Just FYI, where do these guys get their funding?
The vast majority of it comes from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE - supposedly our allies right?

So why aren’t we freezing bank accounts and cutting off business with them?
That’s the first thing I would think anyone would do - cut off the funds.

We certainly shouldn’t sell any of them anymore weapons, missiles, jet fighters, tanks, SAMs, etc. etc. and yet we do…
Hmmm.

Most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia (who I might add has some of the worst human rights violations on the planet) too…and yet, we invade Afghanistan and Iraq?
We enact covert and non-covert missions over countries we don’t have permission to be in and then expect what? To be hailed as liberators?
There has never been such an occupation…never…the occupiers are either pushed out or the natives are killed off.

We have kids flying multi-million dollar drones blowing up shit from afar…the estimates of civilian casualties from just the past two major wars in the middle-east is officially 210,000, but other sources say far more have died.

Can you imagine being in one of these countries? How do you think you would view the US and the West?

BTW, I can offer you a very extensive list of atrocities done in the name of “Christianity”…and yet, I don’t judge the religion on things other people have done that are non-representative of the religion as a whole.
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Claiming there are peaceful muslims might work on the individual level, but there is not such thing as a significant peaceful muslim community anywhere in the world. Islam as a religion of peace? Pleeeaaase!

Islamic countries:
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Chad
Comoros
Djibouti
Egypt
Guinea
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Lebanon
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Mayotte
Morocco
Niger
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Syria
Tajikistan
The Gambia
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Turkmenistan
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Western Sahara
Yemen
 
Sending all my best wishes towards everyone who is affected by these events. I will take these events to heart and try to be more peaceful, more fair, and more loving in my interactions with others.
 
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Muslims used to be peaceful, perhaps tolerant, of Christians. Then the Crusades came and Christians invaded them repeatedly for a couple hundred years. Then the Spanish Inquisition happened and many were killed.

Fast forward a couple/few hundred years filled with more of the same and we have WWII. After that, we divided up much of the Muslim world and settled "friendlies" in the middle of it all (Israel). Another 50+ years of war ensued, with the West using Israel as it's distraction/peon to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants.

Now they have oil. We want oil. It's a finite supply and they have most of it. We kill them, we get oil.

It doesn't take a genius to see who the actual aggressor behind all of this really is and has always been. Terrorists aren't created by handing out flowers and hugs...
 
hush said:
If you're seeing you're way out, my door is open, and I have snuggles and minty tea ready for those who enter. Call me silly, but I believe in the midst of bloodshed, we could all use a warm cuppa. : )
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I need some snuggles, let's go get some tea.
 
@ Lerxt - it does not take genius to see that but it takes breaking of belief system. System embedded in minds of westerners starting with bad education, false history and years and years of media mind control.
 
Snuggles, tea, and freshly baked (virtual, sadly) cakes for everyone! <3
 
“Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.”
Brian Kilmeade
 
Well, at least Free2be is able to point out the elephant in the room. Unlike Free2be, my objectivity and mind is not clouded in the slightest. I have never been more clear and more objective when I blame religion for this mess, for all of these attacks. And why are people getting so upset because people prefer to blame an entire religion? It's a perfectly reasonable and logical conclusion to take, if you also take into account exactly what Islamic State claim to be fighting for, and you also take into account even the basic history of Islam, and indeed of all religions. There is a very noticeable and simple difference between blaming ideas and blaming people. I am blaming ideas AND the people that run ISIS, but I am not blaming all Muslims. Anyone that fails to comprehend this very simple difference needs to examine their brain for possible tumors.
 
Free2be said:
I happen to believe that all religion is the cause of all this. Muslim, Christian, whatever your flavor. Anyone who denies this is failing to see that no other thing on the face of this planet - since the dawn of time - has caused more bloodshed and has taken more lives in the name of <insert god/s here> than religion. ANY religion. I think if people really want to start pointing fingers, they should start aiming at the humans who create these religions - not for spiritual solace, but for power and control of those that choose to believe in it. Condemn me or not, this is just my own unpopular opinion on the subject. But this isn't a religious debate, so I'll see my way out.
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Most religions, as we think of them, are just a part of the culture. If you look closely at the common views of culture, it is almost religious itself complete with battling sects etc. The truth is that people get violent, and they like to feel good about things instead of bad. Religions are the go-to for justification whenever they feel like getting violent.

I think your complaint is with Dogma, especially intolerant, and I'm right there with you. Dogma can be entrenched culturally as well.
 
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