Wiping everyone's debt

[muir]

Yeah the thing is that they want people in debt

In the 60's students protested against the government...now they are weighed down into the system by debt...it's a control mechanism

we've all been in or are in debt so we all know what it feels like...it's like a weight

[video=youtube;4-Kmn2vG7lc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Kmn2vG7lc[/video]

 

[Skarekrow]

I agree...with more equality there is usually MORE social upheaval...usually in a good way, like fighting segregation and against the war in the 60's....this goes against the conservative mantra of continuing the status quo even to the detriment of the majority of the nation.

 

[flower]

Very interesting dream and thought. I think it depends on the situation.. I can't give any examples but I think it would make many people happy. Who likes debts? .... Banks? (because they get more money from the debtors?)

There was a very interesting document on Youtube about history of the money, but not finding it now. Like someone said in this thread, money exists only because it's based on debt and the document spoke about that too. If anyone knows the name of that specific document, I would be glad to know!

I think economy will collapse someday, it will happen eventually. And no, I have no facts, it's just a thought... It just can't continue in this way. US keeps raising the debt limit, which just shows that they (US) can't pay some parts of the debt back (still, don't know much about it). And what happened to Greece? Bubble burst.

 

[MindYourHead]

The astronomical rise in the cost of a secondary education over the past 30 plus years is directly linked to the implementation of government tuition programs & loans.
Colleges and Universities take full advantage of this cash cow by increasing tuition. They charge what the market will bear.
The bankers love it too!

 

[muir]

[video=youtube;R9vqmBPWz70]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9vqmBPWz70[/video]

 

[Lark]

Last night I dreamt that the banks were hacked and everyone's debts around the world were wiped clean.

What do you think would happen at an individual, community, and world level if this happened? War? Chaos? Joy? Freedom? How would impact country level debt? What would happen to economic growth? What would you do it you woke up one day and weren't in debt?

Its an interesting question, its also one of the "socialistic", if that term could even be applied to it and I dont believe it properly can, norms or measures which used to exist within the Jewish community in the old testament, in the year of jubilee debts were "forgiven", thats every seventh year, and there were laws, or at least moral and ethical instructions, about not refusing to lend or share in the sixth or seventh year because the recipient may have no obligation to reciprocate or honour any debt. So the idea is not without precident.

Its going to mean a lot more to people who are heavily indebted, including nation states, and I do think that its gotten to such a pitch over time that debt is used as a kind of social control or virtual indentured labour, a form of slavery not properly so called and assumed or rationalised as not injurious to freedom because it has to be voluntarily assumed or adopted with conscent. I think that this is a kind of test of whether or not you're sincerely libertarian. If you're of the mind that liberty can be bought and sold through some kind of contrivance then I dont believe that you're properly a libertarian at all. Just some kind of capitalist or "propertarian" instead.

One of the things I thought was interesting about Fight Club's adaptation to screen was that the bombs at the finish targetted banks with a view to wiping peoples debt records, in the book its power stations which they wanted to destroy and that was more in tune with the macho primitivism of the story up to that point. There was a movie featuring that dude from The Breakfast Club in which he was a bank raider and it turned out to be a dream but he also engaged in a sort of robin hood burning of mortgage records back before electronic records.

 

[Barnabas]

We live in a debt based system...its how they control us

remove debt and you remove a large part of their control

Historically debt was periodically written off in debt jubilees to stop the equvilent of depressions and also to prevent social upheval

The brilliant Prof Michael Hudson talks about these write-offs and the possibility of modern write downs going way back to ancient Sumer

[video=youtube;cCsxKy6Lbvg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCsxKy6Lbvg[/video]

Most debt is still written off every seven years so that it has no effect on your records(in the u.s.). I'm speaking of personal experience since I'm currently waiting for an eviction to remove it'self from my record.


Edit: to actually answer the question I'd find a better apartment.

 

[muir]

Most debt is still written off every seven years so that it has no effect on your records(in the u.s.). I'm speaking of personal experience since I'm currently waiting for an eviction to remove it'self from my record.


Edit: to actually answer the question I'd find a better apartment.

Are you saying that if you take out a student loan it will be erased within 7 years or if you take out a $20,000 loan to start a business it will be erased in 7 years?

 

[bamf]

I'd love to wake up one day and find my student loans magically paid-off. My debt is larger than my salary, and most likely will always be, and that's depressing. I can write some of it off if I work in a Title-1 school for five years, and then it's only 5k, which is only a smallish portion of my debt. Blah, I hate thinking about it.

 

[Lark]

Last night I dreamt that the banks were hacked and everyone's debts around the world were wiped clean.

What do you think would happen at an individual, community, and world level if this happened? War? Chaos? Joy? Freedom? How would impact country level debt? What would happen to economic growth? What would you do it you woke up one day and weren't in debt?

What were the consequences in your dream say what?

I really should have opened with that instead of what I did write, I do apologise, working on my listening skills is a kind of work in progress.

 

[muir]

I'd love to wake up one day and find my student loans magically paid-off. My debt is larger than my salary, and most likely will always be, and that's depressing. I can write some of it off if I work in a Title-1 school for five years, and then it's only 5k, which is only a smallish portion of my debt. Blah, I hate thinking about it.

The way the world is at the moment anythings possible

There might be a complete right down or write off of the debts so don't despair!

If enough people focus their thoughts on such ideas they will take on a life of their own

 

[Barnabas]

Are you saying that if you take out a student loan it will be erased within 7 years or if you take out a $20,000 loan to start a business it will be erased in 7 years?

different kinds of debt are reported differently, and fairly sure that student loan debt is is one of the debts that doesn't get removed, however I believe after a little Google foo bank loan or credit delinquency is removed after seven years so long as it doesn't exceed 150,000 dollars. Note to say that this doesn't make the debt disappear, but it stops affecting your credit and is not reported against by credit agencies.

 

[Skarekrow]

Are you saying that if you take out a student loan it will be erased within 7 years or if you take out a $20,000 loan to start a business it will be erased in 7 years?

No, student loan debt, mortgage debt, any lien type debt will not disappear...nor can you get rid of it through bankruptcy.
You CAN get your student loans written off if you become legally disabled...as far as I know that is the only way.

 

[say what]

What were the consequences in your dream say what?

I really should have opened with that instead of what I did write, I do apologise, working on my listening skills is a kind of work in progress.

Everyone was happy - my dream focused around me trying to login to my online banking, and always getting the numbers wrong. One of those dreams where I wanted to push a "3" but kept pushing "7" instead. (Probably from reading that math thread!! )

I was just curious to know what would happen. I wonder if it would actually cause chaos. I have no idea through what means...but money always seems to start chaos!

 

[say what]

No, student loan debt, mortgage debt, any lien type debt will not disappear...nor can you get rid of it through bankruptcy.
You CAN get your student loans written off if you become legally disabled...as far as I know that is the only way.

Time to start a thread for ideas!

As long as I maintain at least one functioning arm...I'll be okay.

 

[HunterO]

Higher education used to free in the 1950's and 60's...there was a slight increase in the 70's but one could still work a part time job and afford college....until my good friend and yours, Ronald Reagan deregulated and privatized everything.
Now not only is University education out of reach for many deserving students...but even community college is for some (not that you can get a Master's there)....so now we have seen a rise in the private "trade" schools...like ITT or DeVry....who charge an even higher amount to get what you can via community college...but they make it sound like it is better...that they'll help with job placement...the program is accelerated..etc. And often they have financial offices that use a whole slew of tricks to take out unnecessarily large loans in your name...usually requiring a co-signer.
Here is the thing though....I'll use medical trades since I have a good idea of the wages and the prices.
A 16 mo. Program costs around $25,000 or more (certainly NOT less) to be a Medical Assistant....once out a Medical Assistant probably makes around $12.00 an hour...if they had no bills to pay whatsoever, and, they worked 40 hrs. A week...they could theoretically pay it back in just under a year and a half. How many people can do that though? Most people who go to trade schools like that either do not have the time or grades to go to regular college or university.
These schools are being scrutinized even now as we speak for inflated job placement numbers and wage rates.
Most are now being viewed as predatory lenders...(not all are bad, just most) and are treading on thin ice.
Our workforce used to be the most educated in the world...now we aren't even close...and with that lack of education comes a lack of innovation and competition. One result of that is the outsourcing of highly-skilled jobs being given to folks outside of tue US...which is normally fine, but not when we have such high numbers of unemployment and high numbers of poorly educated people here.

American educational institutions are a big bubble waiting to burst. Hence why most academics flee to European nations since the quality of the education and the affordability is more much realistic there.

It also used to be in the 50s that one could survive on a single family income. I can't say I know anyone in America who lives on one person's income. Most likely, the majority of the population, one person has several jobs and with the problem in overpopulation, there is intense competition for the simplest of jobs.

I read one article from several years back that 5 million people applied to work for McDonald's one year and they were only able to choose 60K people. It tells you that the US is falling apart at the seams.

 

[muir]

different kinds of debt are reported differently, and fairly sure that student loan debt is is one of the debts that doesn't get removed, however I believe after a little Google foo bank loan or credit delinquency is removed after seven years so long as it doesn't exceed 150,000 dollars. Note to say that this doesn't make the debt disappear, but it stops affecting your credit and is not reported against by credit agencies.

Yeah that makes a lot more sense

However that is not a good thing...having your credit rating restored...i mean if a person is heavily in debt why would they want to borrow even more?

 

[muir]

No, student loan debt, mortgage debt, any lien type debt will not disappear...nor can you get rid of it through bankruptcy.
You CAN get your student loans written off if you become legally disabled...as far as I know that is the only way.

Yeah that was more how i thought it would be

In the UK there was a cut off year and before that year anyone who earned less than £15,000 a year didn't need to pay it off and once they reached the age of 50 (i think it was 50) the debt was written off

That law does not stand anymore

I worked my butt off one year living like a monk and managed to pay off my student loan but they did not make it easy for me. Each time i went to them with the money they would find some new reason to prevent me from paying off the final amount...they were deliberately awkward.....they clearly wanted to keep me in debt

I'd had enough by that point though. I was getting mucked around by the banks, the phone company, the council etc so i took action...i needed to for my sanity.

I got rid off all subscriptions, all direct debits and standing orders, got rid of virtually all the contracts in my life, paid off both banks and closed my accounts with them in protest, and paid off my debts

I realised around that time that the main strands of the web that they use to wrap us into the system with are: contracts and debt

The regulators weren't protecting people from the sharp practices of the phone companies so they would ring up and say do you want a new contract for 18 months (you used to be able to get one for 6 months thereby giving you a greater ability to shop around for deals) and if you said no they would go ahead and do it anyway and you would get a letter through the post; so then you'd have to ring them up to cancel it and you'd go through the options and then be put on hold etc

All the coporations and government bodies do that now....if you ring them up you go through recorded options, then you're put on hold, then you're transferred to another department who say that it has nothing to do with them so they punt you back to the original dept who keep you on hold again before hanging up, or putting you though to another incorrect department etc

It is clearly policy to hamper the efforts of citizens and consumers

I try to limit any sort of involvement with those sorts of groups and if i have to deal with them to try and get face time...its much harder for them to brush you off then

After i got them to correct the descrepancy they had created out of thin air I told my bank manager as i closed my account that i hoped their rotten bank collapsed and it did...unfortunately the government bailed it out with tax payer money (it's funny how their 'computor errors' are never in favour of the customer!)

 

[Barnabas]

Yeah that makes a lot more sense

However that is not a good thing...having your credit rating restored...i mean if a person is heavily in debt why would they want to borrow even more?

They probably shouldn't, but if your like me and have bad marks on your credit from when you were still say 17 to 18 because you were a dumb kid. It's nice to know that those decisions aren't going to do permanent damage to my credit.

 

[muir]

They probably shouldn't, but if your like me and have bad marks on your credit from when you were still say 17 to 18 because you were a dumb kid. It's nice to know that those decisions aren't going to do permanent damage to my credit.

Yeah makes sense

Jeez i was dumb around that age too...before 2008 banks were just handing out credit to anyone and i didn't have a responsible view to money at that point.

The stupid thing about credit ratings is that if you don't borrow at all you will have a worse credit rating than someone who's sticking things on their credit card all the time. They reward borrowers by extending more credit

I knew some people who were able to get a string of mortgages because the bank liked that they already had a mortgage...never mind the fact they had barely paid any of it off!

100% mortgages they were giving out! Crazy times...