Where do Christians (and other religious folk) get their morals from? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Where do Christians (and other religious folk) get their morals from?

The bible is a book, and it's old and people interpret it in contradictory ways. I didn't expect those plain facts to be taken as offensive.

I don't see this place as a church, or as someone else's house, I see it as an open forum for discussion and sharing of ideas. If it really is such a sacred place then perhaps I should move on.

I didn't mean to suggest that the forum should not be a place for discussion and sharing of ideas. Like anywhere though, forums have their own culture to them that develops from what is posted (that is what I have come to understand from it anyway). This place is no more sacred than anywhere else on the internet, but I think it should be something more than the others because we are all a part of it. We can all come here and talk openly and freely about subjects that may not hold as much interest to others around us in our day to day lives. I think courtesy and respect should be central to our posts (although it is only my opinon again). I am not trying to make others feel unwelcome here.

I can't stop you from making your own decision about the matter, but I hope that you stay.
 
Churches present moral systems, plus, society has morals, and people can invent their own morals. For most people, it is some combination of those three.
 
Morals come from the environment, they are taught to us by our parents, peers, and surroundings starting at a young age. If a child's parents are religious than the child's morals will most likely be considered religious morals. If a child's parents are atheist, then the morals are not religious morals and because I don't know what else to call them besides morals, I'm going to call them virtues.

Religion isn't the root for morals, the environment is. Religion can be a path to keep an individual moral but it most definitely can be done without religion.

That's what I said in post 17.
 
I didn't mean to suggest that the forum should not be a place for discussion and sharing of ideas. Like anywhere though, forums have their own culture to them that develops from what is posted (that is what I have come to understand from it anyway). This place is no more sacred than anywhere else on the internet, but I think it should be something more than the others because we are all a part of it. We can all come here and talk openly and freely about subjects that may not hold as much interest to others around us in our day to day lives. I think courtesy and respect should be central to our posts (although it is only my opinon again). I am not trying to make others feel unwelcome here.

I can't stop you from making your own decision about the matter, but I hope that you stay.

Sorry about that, kinda looked like I was throwing my toys, I just have a tendency that if I'm accidentally offending people then I'd rather just avoid/leave than do more damage kind of thing.
 
I'm the most tactless person here. I say exactly what I believe.

Christianity has value, but it only has "morals" if you believe in sexism, slavery, homophobia, and sadism. Virtually no one uses a literal interpretation of Christianity, they form their own interpretation around the morals and values they were brought up with in their respective environment.

An yes, the Bible is highly contradictory. Anyone who says otherwise has obviously not taken the time to read the thing.

List of contradictions in the Bible

Heck, between the different gospels it even gives completely different accounts of the same events.

Christianity has value in that it teaches that people need to love and forgive one another and to let go of the things that are outside their control by believing in something greater than themselves.
 
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Well, that's the pessimistic view of it. However, you can't deny that there are a slew of positive morals that come from any religion as well.

As for slavery, sexism, homophobia, and sadism, I'd have to say that we don't really need religion to have any of those. They bring themselves around in any case.

In considering that, there are good sides and bad sides to any religion. The key point, though, is that they create structure, and structure is necessary for order. That might not be as readily applicable in the present using religion, because we have other forms of structure that can replace it as necessary; however, in the past, religion was a chief form of structure, and thus it was from that base that our "morals" were fleshed into actual rules, rather than somewhat natural guidelines.
 
However, you can't deny that there are a slew of positive morals that come from any religion as well.

Please provide some examples of these morals that religions offer.

As for slavery, sexism, homophobia, and sadism, I'd have to say that we don't really need religion to have any of those. They bring themselves around in any case.

Actually, if you look at the core of these arguments they always come back to religion. I'm not convinced that religion isn't the source of these arguments. How many reasonable agnostics do you know who support sexism, homophobia, slavery, and sadism? Compare that number to Christians who support these concepts.

That might not be as readily applicable in the present using religion, because we have other forms of structure that can replace it as necessary; however, in the past, religion was a chief form of structure, and thus it was from that base that our "morals" were fleshed into actual rules, rather than somewhat natural guidelines.

I agree. Religion has become obsolete.
 
The bible is a book, and it's old and people interpret it in contradictory ways. I didn't expect those plain facts to be taken as offensive.

I don't see this place as a church, or as someone else's house, I see it as an open forum for discussion and sharing of ideas. If it really is such a sacred place then perhaps I should move on.

When you follow up your question with a statement like "
surely not a contradictory old book?" when you know it's something that is important and/or sacred to those you're speaking of, then you shouldn't be surprised if it comes off as offensive or judgemental.

I don't think any of us are saying this forum is a church or sacred place. You asked about Christians and their morals. If you didn't want to hear anything about religion and our take on our own religion, then you shouldn't have asked.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but I think you need to take the potential effects of your words into account. You're expecting me to not be offended by the things you say, but then you seem to be offended by what I'm saying. I'm not at all trying to be offensive, and I'm sure you aren't either. It just comes across that way. Please, no hard feelings. I respect everyone's opinions and feelings, just as long as I'm not being judged for my beliefs.
 
Morals

Surely not a contradictory old book?

I didn't receive my morals from the Bible. My morality is based on life experiences. Some of the things I learned from my stint in the US Navy.
 
Please provide some examples of these morals that religions offer.

Well, to begin with basic Christian ones, thou shalt not kill, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, covet, etc. etc.
Many Christian beliefs also center around forgiveness, loving thine neighbor, etc.
And while there are many ways to interpret the Christian bible, there are many passages in the Bible that say EXACTLY that, so it's kind of hard to say they're not there. Those teachings are physically present.


Actually, if you look at the core of these arguments they always come back to religion. I'm not convinced that religion isn't the source of these arguments. How many reasonable agnostics do you know who support sexism, homophobia, slavery, and sadism? Compare that number to Christians who support these concepts.

I'm inclined to disagree. There are people who are good that are nonreligious; there are people that are bad that are nonreligious. I've known many atheist assholes that feel perfectly inclined to wrinkle their noses at homosexuals as much as they are Christianity, and I know many Christians that are very good friends with said homosexuals.

But I digress. Sexism has existed before Christianity and most other religions; that is partly from the "needs" at the time, though, and continued through culture. Documented homophobia has existed as long as documented homosexuality. Slavery exists in cultures even today that are not part of any mainstream religious affiliations. Sadism is not a part of religion; one could argue it's a part of "human nature." Mental illness, abuse, circumstances, lust for power, etc. could all be factors of sadism; I do not see how sadism is based in religion at all.

In contemporary times, these things only connect to religion because they connect to tradition, and religion has been a base of tradition for as long as religion has existed. In fact, almost all established cultures have some form of religion, so I'd say that to connect these things to religion would be more or less a step away from the fact that all of these things tend to exist naturally. They don't stem from religion; however, they stem from the same base as religion.

The concept of widespread agnosticism is fairly new, at least on the accepted scale that it is presently. However, I am not convinced that agnosticism creates less sadism, sexism, prejudice, or anything else. What it does do is create a mentality against the mainstream, so they are more likely to think about what they "believe" or why they should behave a certain way. That is only as long as we are in the process of change and new ideas, though; once agnosticism is established, it's likely that it will be as blindly followed as anything else, and won't really eliminate anything.

The thing you should be pointing fingers at is conformism, not religion. Religion in and of itself is not a bad thing, nor does it aim to do harm. However, blind following of anything, be it religion, government, philosophy, or anything else, will lead to prejudice and prosecution.

I agree. Religion has become obsolete.

I disagree. Religion in the sense of spirituality is not obsolete. Religion in the sense of conformism, though, is obsolete, and should be reconsidered.
 
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Actually, if you look at the core of these arguments they always come back to religion. I'm not convinced that religion isn't the source of these arguments. How many reasonable agnostics do you know who support sexism, homophobia, slavery, and sadism? Compare that number to Christians who support these concepts.

The Bible does not support sexism, homophobia, slavery, and sadism. Sexism, homophobia, slavery, and sadism are products of human nature and a part of world history. Your views are most definitely prejudiced. There are plenty of non-Christians who support that just as there are plenty of Christians that do not. The Bible contains such subjects, because of the times in which it was written not b/c God supported them. If you've really read the Bible, you would know that God's view of things changed once Jesus was crucified. He stopped being a vengeful God and became a loving God. If you aren't a Christian, then how can you understand what is being said? I don't mean just reading the words on the pages - I mean understanding. It's so funny that so many agnostics and atheists point fingers and judge us, but they get so bent out of shape when the tables are turned. The problem is PEOPLE. Not the religions or anything like that. It's PEOPLE. Yeah, I get judged by fellow Christians for believing that everyone has a chance to have peace after death as long as they are genuinely good to their fellow humans. And I most certainly don't believe that as long as you call yourself a Christian you get a free pass. I get judged for not believing homosexuality is wrong and for not thinking strippers and hookers are not at all bad people - why would they be? A long time ago I was not a Christian simply for the fact that, like a lot of people, I didn't hear anything but hate and judgements from "Christians". I've been told that my husband isn't a Christian, because he's Catholic. Why anyone feels the need to say such an ugly thing is beyond me, but they use supposed Christian "laws" to say that. I finally learned that I had to ignore the hatred of others and not let them speak for God. No one can (except Jesus, but I digress), but so many people think it's their right to do so and they cram it down other people's throats and use it as an excuse to treat people poorly. The Bible is primarily a book of lessons. There is so much peace in there, if you just allow yourself to see it. But, if you read it with a prejudice against it, then you're not going to see it. I don't think that morals and goodness have to have a title like "Christian", "Atheist", "Muslim", etc. It is so unfortunate that the Bible is used as a weapon by both sides when it's purpose is to be used as a guide to peace. My ultimate problem is why ANYONE feels that someone shouldn't be happy or have peace, simply because their basis for it isn't the same as yours? So what if my basis for morals comes from Jesus and his teachings in the Bible? Why do you care? Is it your place? Why do people care if a Muslim believes the way they do? So, they don't think Jesus was the Messiah. Why does that affect me or anyone else? Why do people care if an atheist or agnostic doesn't use the Bible as a moral guide? As long as you are a good person, you don't have to have a specific place from where you get your morals. And because the Bible was written by human (who we all know aren't perfect), it can never be considered to be perfect.

In the end, two wrongs never make a right. Ever.
 
quote" Surely you jest? What an approach." unquote by just me


Someone agrees. Great. I feel that approach does not warrant any response other than that from me. Back to the jungle....
Of all the moral turpitude....
 
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Where do Christians (and other religious folk) get their morals from?

From God who made our conscience.
 
Where do Christians (and other religious folk) get their morals from?

From God who made our conscience.


very good answer
 
I'm sorry but I disagree with you Satya, religion is not obsolete and I hope it never will be. Like it has been said before in this thread, I question organized religion, but the spirituality of mankind is a beautiful thing. If mankind as a whole looses all connection to beliefs about the supernatural (be they provable or not, real or not) I think mankind will suffer culturally, and greatly. Religion for those who are spiritual is a source of inspiration, beauty, aestetics, hope, and future. To say that these have no place (not that you have to have religion or spiritualism but that mankind as a whole has no need for it) is extremely closed minded and dangerous. It limits choice, imposses stupidity on people who believe in something other than logic, and makes claims that you are the one with the right answer.
 
Satya, please just post examples from "the good book of genocide". I think WikidPod has not read the bible in quite a few years.
 
Satya, please just post examples from "the good book of genocide". I think WikidPod has not read the bible in quite a few years.

If you can't get the point that I've been trying to make, then there's not much hope for you.
 
I'm a Satanist.

I "Get" your point. I just think it's a load of **expletive**


I was originally going to say satya for comic value, but I realised that it might not be too obvious.