I hate to be mean but you posted we gave our opinion and it in no way changes your opinion of him.
when bad people die
- Thread starter tfg345i4u5lw
- Start date
Maybe he wasn't one, maybe your description is inexact but I'm deducing based on your description. Sociopaths tend to be extremely charming people and act as a really good person but have absolutely no moral values.
[MENTION=2596]ImNotFullyJressed[/MENTION]
i really don't want to say any of this because it will probably hurt my feelings more than yours, but i think you kinda need to hear it.
most people are not good people to the rest of the world because everything we do on earth has consequences. i think it's why i'm an introvert. the less i deal with others, the less chance i have to hurt.
your cousin was not a good person in general. he will always be a bad person to the rest of the world, in memory. a memory is what he is now. nothing good you say about him will change the fact he was not a nice person to the people he kept as "slaves." he was a bad man to the world, and he did very bad things. i think it's rather insolent of you to ask for the world to change their view of your cousin. it doesn't even matter now. if anything the world should learn to stop people like your cousin from hurting other people.
you know he was an awful person to the world. accept it? accept that other people will not feel the love you feel for your cousin?
the lives your cousin helped don't make up for the lives your cousin oppressed. did your cousin ever ask God for forgiveness? if he asked then he received it. if he did not ask for forgiveness from the people he hurt here on earth, then he will never receive it. don't expect anyone here to tell you he was a good person.
BUT you are absolutely right to still love him. no one can take that love you have away, and no one should try. just because someone is a bad person to the rest of the world, it doesn't make them any less deserving of your love. i think one day it will be possible for everyone to truly love one another. until then, do what bamf advised. learn from the mistakes your cousin made. don't repeat them.
i really don't want to say any of this because it will probably hurt my feelings more than yours, but i think you kinda need to hear it.
most people are not good people to the rest of the world because everything we do on earth has consequences. i think it's why i'm an introvert. the less i deal with others, the less chance i have to hurt.
your cousin was not a good person in general. he will always be a bad person to the rest of the world, in memory. a memory is what he is now. nothing good you say about him will change the fact he was not a nice person to the people he kept as "slaves." he was a bad man to the world, and he did very bad things. i think it's rather insolent of you to ask for the world to change their view of your cousin. it doesn't even matter now. if anything the world should learn to stop people like your cousin from hurting other people.
you know he was an awful person to the world. accept it? accept that other people will not feel the love you feel for your cousin?
the lives your cousin helped don't make up for the lives your cousin oppressed. did your cousin ever ask God for forgiveness? if he asked then he received it. if he did not ask for forgiveness from the people he hurt here on earth, then he will never receive it. don't expect anyone here to tell you he was a good person.
BUT you are absolutely right to still love him. no one can take that love you have away, and no one should try. just because someone is a bad person to the rest of the world, it doesn't make them any less deserving of your love. i think one day it will be possible for everyone to truly love one another. until then, do what bamf advised. learn from the mistakes your cousin made. don't repeat them.
Unless you never bought anything made in China or India you are also a bad person, wait... even if you didn't your taxes still fund the American regime that goes around the world and kills people, so just by being born and existing and paying taxes you murder innocent women and children you will never see. We live in the lap of opulence in our society, Europe as well all 1st world nations do, and that opulence is built on the broken bodies and souls of weaker peoples. Every dollar you earn is blood money. I dont personally see a difference between a guy who's company buys cheap goods in China using (slave) labor (actually its just really cheap labor, and its perpetrated by their countries own government by artificially keeping their currency low to attract foreign investments.) and the people who demand the services his cousin, and corporations like walmart set out to capitalize on. We are all equally guilty... sitting around saying "im good" "hes bad" is hypocrisy. Because your and his, and my desire for comfort as well as the the "slaves" themselves and their government masters all set this system up.
That people are destroyed in the process is nothing new, we live in a horribly sick world, and dance like puppets on strings, there is no good, there is no evil, there is only pain and suffering inflicted by the strong onto the weak, that is the rule of nature, you see it in all animals.
We as a species only have 1 foot out of the jungle. We are truly ugly, but I think we will civilize more. In time.
Your mixed emotions are all over the place. First, you named this thread "When bad people die" thus implying that the person you are speaking of might have been that and even reinforcing it with some of the things you've written in your first post. Then, whenever someone wrote that he is a bad person judging by informations you've provided you go in defensive mode.
I won't judge whether he was this or that.
I think that you are having an inner conflict stemming from clash of what is seen as objectively bad person and the feelings you have for the person in question. Every person has good and bad sides, but what you need to do is to chose which memories of him are you going to cherish.
I won't judge whether he was this or that.
I think that you are having an inner conflict stemming from clash of what is seen as objectively bad person and the feelings you have for the person in question. Every person has good and bad sides, but what you need to do is to chose which memories of him are you going to cherish.
"if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." i've heard that before, and i don't necessarily disagree with it. no, it doesn't do a lot of good to point fingers since we are all to blame, but if your problem is other people pointing fingers, move out of their range or ignore it.
ImNotFullyJressed has a problem accepting the truth about his cousin because he or she keeps trying to convince us that his cousin is awesome. this thread is not about my or our collective hypocrisy. i accept the truth about myself and everyone else, but i wasn't talking about everyone.
but you're the one who is trying to tell us about him and ask what we think...
And if we can't recognise the wrong someone's done when they're dead, when can we recognise it?
The fact of the matter is is that on a world-wide scale, he's probably done more bad than good, he certainly didn't seek to change business legislation for the better, because current business laws work for him and his own country. he saw a chance to make things better for his family and his country, but at the espense of the well-being of poor people from another country.
In no way can I ever consider that a good thing.
If he was a religious man, then I find it hard to believe that he was happy to accept things as they are. I hate the idea that there are still slaves in this world, and I hate to see rich businessmen take advantage of desperate people. If you believe in god then you should hate it too...
I'm not saying you shouldn't mourn his passing, but I do believe you should recognise what he's done and admit it.
but when they're dead, it's done with, and their practices are no longer an issue, so you must accept who they were and move on.
Not everyone can be an angel. sometimes we can't help doing bad things. Half my possessions must be made by people in sweatshops. It's a fact I'm not proud of, but I live with it and try to be a better person in some ways while accepting the wrong that I do in others.
you are equating apples and oranges.
In the case of the low wage workers (not slaves) in China, someone WILL exploit them, in fact thier own government is exploiting them 1st.
In the case of the laptop, its not assured that it will be stolen, since actual theft is a much more direct action that doesn't involved an entire economy, 1000s of workers, supply and demand chain, an employer and employees... that is a very black and white portrait of a very grey situation.
Oh. I've just been dying for someone to take this thread in this direction.
I'm sick of the capitalism is evil argument. Capitalism is a system that's all. It's flawed so is every system ever devised by man. All systems have their breaking points and capitalism appears to be there. It would reach that point eventually. It's a law observed in nature. There is no such thing as perpetual growth. Eventually, death comes.
Capitalism is vulnerable to abuse. Any system operated with poor ethics can have evil consequences. This is the first problem. People acted unethically, immorally and irresponsibly. They've done it with communism, socialism, religion and so on. It's not new. The second problem, as populations grow there is an exponential demand on resources. This is the real problem that we must solve and stop arguing over -isms.
Now, as @Billy said the workers are not slaves. The workers benefit and suffer from the system. They choose to work because there are real benefits. Trade unions ruined my country but especially my hometown with this exploitation nonsense. The manufacturers left for the Far East and the people have less employment opportunities with even poorer wages and benefits. Their only options have been migration, crime or sponging off of foreign relatives. Education standards have fallen also because who needs education if there are no jobs to be had. Before the trade union nonsense people could see their way ahead. Life was improving for the next generation.
Stop judging life in other countries by the standards in yours. There are many definitions of a good life.
It's something even the most knowledgeable, spiritual person questions. And you have every right to be confused. After all the info you just shared I'd wonder too. Either way I'd take comfort from what these posters said.
When I'm faced with a dilemma like this, I always go back to this basic idea: You can't help the way you feel.
If you feel as though justice has been done, and a bit freed, and in general fairly content with the idea that he's dead, then that's that. If you miss him, you miss him. Justifying and explaining your feeling to others is a challenge, but when you can accept in your head the basic notion of which side you're on, you'll find that much easier.
(Disclaimer: There's always cognitive dissonance, and all those other studies which have shown that one's opinion can indeed be changed. But if you actively combat your emotions, you're not making it any easier for yourself.)
If you feel as though justice has been done, and a bit freed, and in general fairly content with the idea that he's dead, then that's that. If you miss him, you miss him. Justifying and explaining your feeling to others is a challenge, but when you can accept in your head the basic notion of which side you're on, you'll find that much easier.
(Disclaimer: There's always cognitive dissonance, and all those other studies which have shown that one's opinion can indeed be changed. But if you actively combat your emotions, you're not making it any easier for yourself.)