What the Bible Says about Our Current World & Times | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

What the Bible Says about Our Current World & Times

I
Oh I think it's fine to talk about it, share your views and beliefs. However, historically Christians have been waiting for the end of the world since shortly after the crucifixion of Christ. People have been using Bible prophecy for all sorts of things throughout the history of mankind. Personally I see it as a useful tool to keep the masses in order.
It's easy to look to the Bible and talk about the end times and then of course all the while sitting in your comfortable chair saying however, I believe and I'll be saved from all of this as I'll be taken up into heaven. All before the calamity strikes of course because the Bible says so.
I think it's a lot more useful to talk about ponder consider how we might make changes so that we make the world a better place.
That actually was the message of Jesus as I recall
I am fully aware of this.

If it's for the masses, then so is teaching about evolution.

Because the elites believe in neither doctrines.

They believe in the metaphysical.

Nobody teaches that to the masses.

Although now it is being taught under New Age.
 
Hey @ByTheWaves

Thanks for this thread. I am a slave to the gospel.

I am certain that the most important subject is the fact of intense disclosure of character at the end of time. As metaphor, one of many examples of this is the object lesson travail as of a woman in birth pangs. Jeremiah 30:5-7 is a good example. At the end of time, the faithful undergo this experience two times. The first accomplishes perfection of character as well as the sealing, a settling of grace so intense that they will never choose sin again. This is represented by Christ's 40 day wilderness experience. The second is full disclosure and is represented by 3 days, including Christ's psychological torment that ended just prior to His physical death.

For Christ, the venue was strictly sinful flesh. For the righteous at the end, the venue for the first is character and for the second, sinful flesh. The righteous will perceive themselves to be altogether evil and will bear maximum levels of the wages of sin - feelings like guilt, shame, and embarrassment. They will survive. They achieve resurrection by faith.

The cup then passes to the lost. They will see themselves and will actually be defeated well before full disclosure.

Finally, it is demonstrated that an evil morality is not viable. The only reason folks can survive while having sin is that their characters are concealed from them. The Day declares otherwise. It is also demonstrated that there is so much survival innate to holiness of character that it can endure the full load of the wages of sin and survive.

The Daniel text informs us that the lost are not even inside the furnace and cannot survive, but what of the faithful? Notice the furnace is made seven times hotter. Seven, completeness.

Daniel 3:19-25
19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was full of fury, and the expression on his face changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. He spoke and commanded that they heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. 20 And he commanded certain mighty men of valor who were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, and cast them into the burning fiery furnace. 21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their trousers, their turbans, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 22 Therefore, because the king’s command was urgent, and the furnace exceedingly hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. 23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”

Luke 6:46-49
46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”

1 Corinthians 3:12-13
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is
Yes.
... This is currently the start of the cleansing... In biblical and wordly terms...

Governments cleansing anyone who doesn't follow their law and rules. Cocos 19 compliment is a good way to do it..

And God's cleansing of who doesn't follow his.

I don't know how to upload pictures to this site yet.

I have something interesting to share.
 
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I was on the understanding that, the Bible said the future can't be ordained and that only God knows the time & way.

Also, does it matter? we take today for granted when we could perish at any time. There's never a bad day to have our accounts in order, whether it's the end of the world or not.
Though looking for patterns & deciphering metaphor is interesting.

(edit: added more)
 
Sigh...
I would offer the writing of Keith Giles..being a biblist, vs a christian. Believing in a book, and missing the point.
I would think it is better to live and act like Jesus..and the Jesus that was, not the Jesus of the church.
 
The trouble is always being selective in choosing things in the Bible that support a particular world view, but ignoring the other things in there that don't. There are apocalyptic passages in the gospels that echo back to Daniel, and forward to Revelation, but they seem to me to need very careful insight. For a start the gospel accounts seem to blend a forecast of the sack of Jerusalem in AD70 and the eviction of the Jews from Palestine with the end of the world. But more importantly, it seems to me that Jesus is saying that we should live as though our personal death may only be moments away at any time, and that we should live our lives with this in mind - but he makes it very clear that only the Father knows when the end of the world will be, and that speculation is a waste of time.

What is the heart of Christianity? It is that God loves us and gives us his love and his life freely if only we accept it. What does he ask in return? - that we love him, and that we love each other as much as we love ourselves. Is anything else necessary? Well I guess that the consequences are necessary. One of these is that loving each other isn't parochial - it means loving those who come after us, our children, grandchildren, and their grandchildren's grandchildren. How can we love them if we trash the Earth before they are born?

For true believers, the end of the world is something in God's hands and he will not let it happen till he is ready - nor can we stop it when he is. There's no point in worrying about it. Our job is the same for our world as it is for ourselves and that is to see suicide as a sickness or a fault to be avoided, and to use love for our world and for each other as the shining star to guide us in how we care for it.

I'm unconvinced by the biblical significance of contemporary catastophes myself, except as a warning that we need to do something about their root causes, and to remember our own mortality as Jesus intended. It's an illusion that the world provides a stable environment, and anyone interested in the geological and astronomical history of our planet can see that actually instability is the norm. For instance, nothing in our times can match the catastophes at the end of the last phase of the ice age 10,000-12,000 years ago when millions of square miles of dry land continental shelf were inundated as the northern glaciers melted over just a few hundred years - in Europe, our ancestors used to live in places that are now hundreds of feet below the sea. Yet here we still are, and no doubt here we still will be, even if global warming leads to further huge changes on the same scale - but this seems unlikely to happen before we can do something about it. That's not the same as thinking there is no crisis unfolding - there is, but it isn't the apocalypse yet as far as I can see.
 
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Yes.
... This is currently the start of the cleansing... In biblical and wordly terms...

Governments cleansing anyone who doesn't follow their law and rules. Cocos 19 compliment is a good way to do it..

And God's cleansing of who doesn't follow his.

I don't know how to upload pictures to this site yet.

I have something interesting to share.
The Bible speaks of a corporate body of faithful (by corporate, I mean it applies to all of them) who experience a level of character transformation that has never occurred in human history.

1. There is a grace yet to be revealed. What exactly is this grace?

2. We are not ready for that grace. What then is our needed preparation?

Perhaps consider reading:
https://www.infjs.com/xfa-blog-entry/the-blood-of-christ.8016/#comment-26755
 
Hey @Winterflowers -
I was on the understanding that, the Bible said the future can't be ordained and that only God knows the time & way.
Well, if this is true:

Revelation 1:3
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Matthew 24:36
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.


I think harmony may be reached when it is understood that we cannot know the time, but that we can discern that it is close. And somehow knowing it is near can be of some benefit.

Also, does it matter? we take today for granted when we could perish at any time. There's never a bad day to have our accounts in order, whether it's the end of the world or not.

Though looking for patterns & deciphering metaphor is interesting.
Well, I think it must matter though how it matters cannot be compatible with the idea of holding off on having our accounts in order.
 
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Sigh...
I would offer the writing of Keith Giles..being a biblist, vs a christian. Believing in a book, and missing the point.
I would think it is better to live and act like Jesus..and the Jesus that was, not the Jesus of the church.
I'm not missing the point thanks...
I just posted this to generate interest in the topic.

I don't really like organised religion.

You don't need religion to believe in God & Yehashua.

Unless this is just a complete miscommunication since we don't share any favoured cog functions.

I feel like with INFPs and INFJs, we come to similar conclusions etc but word them in very different ways. Semantics.
Damn semantics.
 
Hey @John K -
The trouble is always being selective in choosing things in the Bible that support a particular world view, but ignoring the other things in there that don't. There are apocalyptic passages in the gospels that echo back to Daniel, and forward to Revelation, but they seem to me to need very careful insight. For a start the gospel accounts seem to blend a forecast of the sack of Jerusalem in AD70 and the eviction of the Jews from Palestine with the end of the world. But more importantly, it seems to me that Jesus is saying that we should live as though our personal death may only be moments away at any time, and that we should live our lives with this in mind - but he makes it very clear that only the Father knows when the end of the world will be, and that speculation is a waste of time.
Yeah, Matthew 24 and its parallels in Mark and Luke are interesting. The apostles ask about two events separated in time by about 2,000 years and Jesus does not correct their misconception. (They likely thought something as catastrophic as the utter destruction of the temple must occur at the time of the end.) I think one lesson that may be gleaned is that this literary device is very real and occurs elsewhere (multiple applications in time to various Scripture).

As to the importance of things, I am convinced that a people must have a certain level of an understanding of the gospel before Christ can come. I also think God's heart aches over the perpetuation of this painful existence and He is aching for its termination.

This is such a painful existence. Anyhow, with my conviction, something else is at stake here. I want to advance gospel theory.

I want this existence in my rear view mirror asap.
 
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I
I was on the understanding that, the Bible said the future can't be ordained and that only God knows the time & way.

Also, does it matter? we take today for granted when we could perish at any time. There's never a bad day to have our accounts in order, whether it's the end of the world or not.
Though looking for patterns & deciphering metaphor is interesting.

(edit: added more)
I understand what you're saying. Yes I believe we should all strive to be better people because well, it's the right thing to do, but the belief gives a bit more motivation... As opposed to being apathetic because some people think everything's pointless so they do what they want without consideration.
 
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The trouble is always being selective in choosing things in the Bible that support a particular world view, but ignoring the other things in there that don't. There are apocalyptic passages in the gospels that echo back to Daniel, and forward to Revelation, but they seem to me to need very careful insight. For a start the gospel accounts seem to blend a forecast of the sack of Jerusalem in AD70 and the eviction of the Jews from Palestine with the end of the world. But more importantly, it seems to me that Jesus is saying that we should live as though our personal death may only be moments away at any time, and that we should live our lives with this in mind - but he makes it very clear that only the Father knows when the end of the world will be, and that speculation is a waste of time.

What is the heart of Christianity? It is that God loves us and gives us his love and his life freely if only we accept it. What does he ask in return? - that we love him, and that we love each other as much as we love ourselves. Is anything else necessary? Well I guess that the consequences are necessary. One of these is that loving each other isn't parochial - it means loving those who come after us, our children, grandchildren, and their grandchildren's grandchildren. How can we love them if we trash the Earth before they are born?

For true believers, the end of the world is something in God's hands and he will not let it happen till he is ready - nor can we stop it when he is. There's no point in worrying about it. Our job is the same for our world as it is for ourselves and that is to see suicide as a sickness or a fault to be avoided, and to use love for our world and for each other as the shining star to guide us in how we care for it.

I'm unconvinced by the biblical significance of contemporary catastophes myself, except as a warning that we need to do something about their root causes, and to remember our own mortality as Jesus intended. It's an illusion that the world provides a stable environment, and anyone interested in the geological and astronomical history of our planet can see that actually instability is the norm. For instance, nothing in our times can match the catastophes at the end of the last phase of the ice age 10,000-12,000 years ago when millions of square miles of dry land continental shelf were inundated as the northern glaciers melted over just a few hundred years - in Europe, our ancestors used to live in places that are now hundreds of feet below the sea. Yet here we still are, and no doubt here we still will be, even if global warming leads to further huge changes on the same scale - but this seems unlikely to happen before we can do something about it. That's not the same as thinking there is no crisis unfolding - there is, but it isn't the apocalypse yet as far as I can see.
I wholeheartedly agree. There's not much I can add because you hit the nail on the head. But I was just putting these things up for people who don't believe in it and wanted to see what they thought of the parallels... In other words subtle? Preaching.... *Cough*.

Well the Bible says there will be a lot that will perish but I mean....
You know Jesus rejoices about 1 lost sheep.

Anyhow.

I guess I won't talk about this again.
 
Amen. lol
I am confused.

But I guess I wasn't very elaborate in the first place so I probably come off as whatever David is thinking.

I know Jesus was a human, and he had a human life, and he was just as much human as the rest of us. Not some untouchable holy thing that you can't reach out to.
 
This is such a painful existence. Anyhow, with my conviction, something else is at stake here. I want to advance gospel theory.

I want this existence in my rear view mirror asap.
Different people have very different experiences of the world, and some of us find the going pretty rough. I feel your deep awareness of pain in the things you say, and in the way you seek o2b, and your search seems very personal as well as very intellectual.

For those of us who follow the Bible, the myth of Eden implies that death is a punishment for the sin of Adam and Eve, but it's actually also a blessing in a world that cannot provide sustained happiness - we are just passing through on our way elsewhere. Tolkien captured this idea in poetic and metaphorical beauty in the Ainulindale, his creation story:

... for an age Ilúvatar sat alone in thought. Then he spoke and said: 'Behold I love the Earth, which shall be a mansion for the Quendi and the Atani! But the Quendi shall be the fairest of all earthly creatures...; and they shall have the greater bliss in this world. But to the Atani I will give a new gift.' Therefore he willed that the hearts of Men should seek beyond the world and should find no rest therein; but they should have a virtue to shape their life..., beyond the Music of the Ainur, which is as fate to all things else ...

It is one with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive, and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither the Elves know not. Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days.... For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief.... But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world; wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers. Death is their fate, the gift of Ilúvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy.

I don't think we are here for no reason - we are each here for purposes special to ourselves, and I find this is a big consolation myself. I expect we might be surprised when we find out eventually what they were. But no matter how difficult things are, we do get to move on.
 
Somewhere along the line I think people stopped worshiping God and started worshiping a book that they think is about God.
But since God doesn't write books we understand that man wrote this book. This book that is a collection of this that and the other thing essentially untraceable to original manuscripts and sources.
What seems true to me is that following the Bible is no more sensible or nonsensical than many native beliefs.
I certainly appreciate the passion that people have for their belief in this book and the truth that it contains. But in reality it's their truth. And we all have our own truth after all.
Interestingly there is more than one creation story in the Bible. The story of Noah is also the story of Gilgamesh. The birth of Jesus is told in multiple ways by multiple people by people that he didn't even know until he was 30 years old. There are similarities between Egyptian religious beliefs and the death and resurrection of Jesus as told by Paul.
I think the Bible is fascinating writing. It's full of beautiful poetry wonderful metaphors morality plays and the like. History of the Kings of Israel. But to look at it as some sort of absolute truth I think is to miss the point.
 
I wholeheartedly agree. There's not much I can add because you hit the nail on the head. But I was just putting these things up for people who don't believe in it and wanted to see what they thought of the parallels... In other words subtle? Preaching.... *Cough*.

Well the Bible says there will be a lot that will perish but I mean....
You know Jesus rejoices about 1 lost sheep.

Anyhow.

I guess I won't talk about this again.
2018-10-13-green-heart-gif.45254
It may be better to get to know folks a bit before starting a religious or political topic. We NF types tend to be heavily invested in our spirituality, but it's pretty wide ranging :D
I hope you are OK.
 
Well, I think it must matter
Why do you think so? not to say it doesn't. I'm only curious about things. If it's something you can't quite articulate, that's okay.
I want this existence in my rear view mirror asap.
Patience. If life is a gift, that may not be the right approach for receiving it. If God created us to live our lives, then I suspect we've something to learn here and shouldn't be rushing through dinner for dessert.
If life isn't a gift in your eyes, then by all means.

I understand what you're saying. Yes I believe we should all strive to be better people because well, it's the right thing to do, but the belief gives a bit more motivation... As opposed to being apathetic because some people think everything's pointless so they do what they want without consideration.
That makes some sense ^_^ though it makes me wonder if we'd be doing the right thing for the wrong reason (that is, motivated by fear of punishment rather than love of goodness). Still, self-improvement is improvement!
I guess I won't talk about this again.
I didn't mind your post <3 like John said, people take their spirituality seriously. But I think many of us are open-minded too.
Thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts about things. They are personal and mean something to me.
 
Hey @Winterflowers -
Why do you think so? not to say it doesn't. I'm only curious about things. If it's something you can't quite articulate, that's okay.
Well, because I believe the Bible and it encourages folks to understand prophecy.

I think prophetic understanding may aide folks in hastening the second coming.

Patience. If life is a gift, that may not be the right approach for receiving it. If God created us to live our lives, then I suspect we've something to learn here and shouldn't be rushing through dinner for dessert.
If life isn't a gift in your eyes, then by all means.
Oh, I am not suggesting bailing out of this life, I am just expressing my desire to facilitate the coming of the next life.

Revelation 21:1-4
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
 
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There are many books seen as canon, by many faith systems. They are all equally valid to those who embrace them.
End times has been a thing since Jesus died. Even though he told his followers, no man can know....yet the speculation continues through the centuries