What is freedom? | INFJ Forum

What is freedom?

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by TinyBubbles, May 23, 2010.

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  1. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    let's talk about freedom, what does freedom mean to you? how would you define it, in your own words? (post a picture if that's easier for you)

    also... what about the world at large, are we free as a society? have we always been - will we always be; is freedom just a state of mind?

    what are the greatest threats to individual & collective freedom these days? what do you feel are the biggest obstacles to becoming completely free?
     
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  2. Ergo Christobal

    Ergo Christobal Talking Lightbulb
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    Always good questions.
    Complete freedom is impossible, but I think everyone is locked in a way with their own freedom. You are free to do whatever you want, but you need to accept the consequences of your actions.

    You are free to rob a bank, but then you are responsible for the jail time afterward. Is that still freedom? I think so.

    Freedom is great, but you can't just go around freely doing anything. Every action has a consequence, so freedom is restricted by that in a way. Sure politics and government restrict it, but you've always got the choice to leave.

    It's all about choice. You are free to make any choice. You are not free to choose to not accept the results of those choices.
     
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  3. Questingpoet

    Questingpoet Not Afraid to Use His Beard
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    --freedom's just another word for "nothing left to lose!"
     
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  4. Roger

    Roger ...

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    I have universal thoughts for your question.

    Freedom is freedom from every attachment and this is our life's one of best purposes. We must try to achieve this. Freedom can make your life and you can choose whatever you want. Freedom means you are not in limited circle by yourself or your relationships.

    According to me, i would like to define this word in this way. If you are at see bottom level, 1000ft deep and now you can see you can't get disturbed by anything. This is your meditation and freedom to do your things. My point is get that 1000ft distance or the enough distance from this material thing and also from this world. After this, you'll say i had a taste of freedom.
     
  5. That Girl

    That Girl Do you have my answers?
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    It is not to be thought of that the Flood
    Of British freedom, which, to the open sea
    Of the world's praise, from dark antiquity
    Hath flowed, "with pomp of waters, unwithstood,"
    Roused though it be full often to a mood
    Which spurns the check of salutary bands,
    That this most famous Stream in bogs and sands
    Should perish; and to evil and to good
    Be lost for ever. In our halls is hung
    Armoury of the invincible Knights of old:
    We must be free or die, who speak the tongue
    That Shakespeare spake; the faith and morals hold
    Which Milton held.--In every thing we are sprung
    Of Earth's first blood, have titles manifold.

    -William Wordsworth

    --and yet, he thinks on it.
     
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  6. Durandal

    Durandal Newbie

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    To me, freedom is in the mind. I feel there are two levels of freedom, one that can never be achieved in this existence. I'll explain that one first.

    The ULTIMATE freedom in this world cannot exist. You cannot be free of your mind, that is. Because freedom of choice is limited. For example, you can never not choose. Ignoring a decision is a choice in itself. You must choose in this life. That is a major limitation of the mind's freedom of will. And, everything we think, and furthermore do, is only a result of reaction. Our reactions to what we experience or lack to experience. That is another limitation - you cannot not react to something, and we all function under this methodology which is inescapable. Your attitude towards this post and how it will shape you is a reaction, despite your freedom to choose how to react to it, and that is the prison itself I am trying to explain.

    But beyond that, ignoring the actual fabric of the mind and simply looking at the pattern as it is, it can exist. We may select from the many options we have, although our selections may be based on our psychology.
     
  7. Soulful

    Soulful life is good

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    Let's talk about freedom, what does freedom mean to you? how would you define it, in your own words? (post a picture if that's easier for you)

    Paradise. Heaven. Joy. Choice and safety with that choice. Love?

    also... what about the world at large, are we free as a society?

    No, not even close. From politics to culture to media to differences between people to what it ultimately ends up being about: finances and control.

    have we always been - will we always be; is freedom just a state of mind?

    We may ultimately be free mentally to select our response to our environment and the situations we find ourselves in, but I'm going to say no to this question. Freedom can be mental, it can be emotional, it can be spiritual, it can be physical... Mental freedom is oftentimes only partial freedom. You can choose to feel free when you are bound, but that doesn't mean you aren't bound.

    what are the greatest threats to individual & collective freedom these days? what do you feel are the biggest obstacles to becoming completely free?

    On the larger scale, the greatest threat is the people in this world who wish to dictate its direction, who are invested in how money flows, where it goes, who does and doesn't have it, those who prod policy makers and who yield power over politicians. On a smaller scale, it is those persons who refuse to abdicate control, who wish to seize power and manipulate it (i.e. dictate, guide it) but who are motivated by fear, greed, and ignorance, and unable to consider differing viewpoints. On an individual level, freedom can only come from within. This may mean healing wounds and working through issues. It's not an all or nothing process either, we can attain increasing levels of freedom over the course of our lives.
     
    #7 Soulful, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  8. RoSe41

    RoSe41 Community Member

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    Hi, May. here's my answer.

    I think freedom is about "let"!

    Here's my explanation to the "let":

    "Let you into your brain! - to find peace and harmony!!
    Let you find a better goal if the old one is so "impossible"!!
    Let us move on with changes happen!!
    Let us act (courageously)!!
    Let things be / but improve them!!
    Let me do this... - (start by learning, finding joys of a new life)
    Let the struggle be your No.1 Enemy if you do have it.
    Let thing "fly"!!!
    Just let me find you in the end."

    AND I think if "money" exists in today's world, I can't see there's the real freedom inside people!!!!!!

    And "the real freedom" is not within the mind, it's in the every way how you live! (we need to think more, and discover more!!!)

    And the "obstacle" (I think) is "we do not live with the habit of 'letting', and we really did too little to a change."
     
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    #8 RoSe41, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  9. RoSe41

    RoSe41 Community Member

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    Here's what I think about your response, I think you are partly wrong! The Ultimate freedom for us is totally achievable, (but even when we know how to achieve it, it may still take us a long time to do so. Because now the situation of this world is very complicated I mean it is not an easy thing to solve these problems!) + (but I want you to think of this - animals! and maybe plants, too! Yeah! I think most of the animals (not all of them) have completely freedoms, and we people are better than just animals, so why we cannot???

    Think more, instead of less!!! If you can think positively; if you can think of those positive things, you will soon love to think of things and your life is gonna be full of passion!!!! And of cause, therefore you can have the freedom in thinking and in making choices!!! ^_^
     
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  10. muir

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    I think freedom is about how much control you have over your own life (and mind)

    If you have an oppressive boss at work then you have little control over your work....you have little freedom

    If you live in a society with oppressive laws then you have little control over your life...you have little freedom

    If you are bound by social pressures to behave certain ways then you are limited in your behaviour....you have little freedom

    If you are bound by contracts and debt to work certain hours per week then you have little control over your time....you have little freedom

    If you are bound by contracts to do certain things then you limit your options, you have less freedom

    If you subscribe to one (speculative) belief system then you are closing your mind to other possibilities....you have little freedom

    I agree with what soulful says about few people controlling the worlds wealth....if they have more control then you have less....you have little freedom

    In the UK our 'government' bailed out the banks, but now our country is financially struggling, so they are talking about selling the banks. But the best price for the banks cannot be got in the current climate so they would be sold at a cheap price and who has the money to buy them.....the few people who have all the worlds wealth.....so then the power, wealth and control is then put into fewer and fewer hands; this goes against the principles of democracy which are about giving a say in matters to everyone. THAT IS A THREAT TO PEOPLES FREEDOM

    The Indo-european language tree shows the spread of ideas and language across large distances. Under this umbrella there are further transmissions of ideas....well either they are shared ideas or they are ideas growing in isolation because they are archetypal to the human mind.

    For example the archetypal tree of life which occurs in religions right across the world. On the eastern seaboard of the mediterranean you have a judaic story of a serpent wrapped around a tree of knowledge yet in China there have been artifacts found predating christ which depict a dragon wrapped around a tree bearing fruit

    The same themes show up again and again in the beliefs of the world: death, rebirth, transcendence / the underworld, the earth, the heavens/ the number 3/ the tree of life / the phallus, the womb, impregnation, fertility

    The cycle of death and rebirth matches the cycle of the sun rising and setting each day, the cycles of floodwaters (such as the Nile), the cycle of the seasons and the cycles of crops which people have depended on since the advent of farming roughly 10,000 years ago.

    Odin sacrificed himself by hanging himself on the tree of life, jesus sacrificed himself on the christian axis mundi...the cross. Odin attained enlightenment under the tree of life, buddha achieved it under a tree

    What is bemusing to the objective mind is the fact that each group of religious people claim their telling of the same story of a cycle of death and rebirth is the one true event as passed down to them from some higher being

    I think this lack of oversight is holding people back a great deal and at some point someone has to cry 'bullshit' on the whole thing

    I think these ideas of cycles of rebirth and of trascendence to a higher place all answer to a fundamental need within people that they must feel that when they go to bed at night that they will wake up in the morning and their life will continue.....further to this is the need when the time comes to take the 'long sleep' to believe that we will in fact wake up again somewhere better

    The reality is that all these beliefs answer to the same human fears

    If we are to free our minds we must see the reality of this and accept our shared condition

    If we are to free our bodies then we must wrestle control back off those that would control us

    If we are to free our spirits....well who knows....we can only speculate
     
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    #10 muir, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  11. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    Freedom to live, to feel, to do, to accept responsibilities, to question, to answer, to find, to search, to die, and everything else inbetween.

    Or more simply, freedom to live, to be happy, and to die.
     
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  12. RoSe41

    RoSe41 Community Member

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    READ THIS.

    This is how I feel about life's meanings (Not like some of you guys, whom think, and speak like there's no solution for the future. Sorry for being so rude, I just don't like some of your guys' view.)

    #1. Always apply to the "good" & let it direct your way!
    #2. With The Right "Time & Energy" Management!
    *******************************************************
    Life is about 3 things:
    1st, Always have A healthy body!!!!!! ===> (#1. Always apply to the "good" & let it direct your way.)
    2nd, Always have A healthy mind!!!!!! ===> (#1. Always apply to the "good" & let it direct your way.)
    + 3rd, To have lots of pleasures in your everyday' s life!!!!!! ===> (#2. With The Right "Time & Energy" Management.)
    *******************************************************
    Notice: "#1. Always apply to the "good" & let it direct your way" - could always be your life-attitude!!
    And "The 'Time', 'Energy' and 'choices'" are always with us in our lives!!

    P.S.: "I believe in the basic goodness of people".
     
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    #12 RoSe41, May 26, 2010
    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  13. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    No rules, unrestrained impulse, acting in the moment.
     
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    #13 Quinlan, May 26, 2010
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  14. Skathac

    Skathac <font color=#27A601>Community Member</font>

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    The only place I can truly be free is within the boundaries of my own mind. Society only offers liberty and mires itself in restrictive values where I am not free to be my true self.

    I would guess freedom is slightly different for everyone.
     
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  15. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    Freedom: to be able to choose what/who you love/need.
     
  16. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    Freedom is questioning whether or not you are free.
     
  17. muir

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    What if the bird doesn't realise it is caged because it can't see outside the cage?

    If the bird is born into the cage and knows no other life but sometimes wonders if there is something beyond the cage....is it free?
     
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  18. RoSe41

    RoSe41 Community Member

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    I think it is really a good question!
    I think if the bird really feel free about its own world, (and it doesn't know about the outside world at all) then I think the bird can enjoy its freedom.
     
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  19. muir

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    What if the bird senses that something is not right? For example what if the bird had evolved to live in a bigger freer environment then the one it found itself in and some innate part of its nature revolted against its cage? Maybe this manifested itself as a feeling of uneasiness and sometimes depression

    Have you seen the film ‘the Truman show’?

    Truman is mostly happy with life but wonders sometimes if there is more to existence; also some things just don’t add up for him so he wants more answers

    He is safe though and has a job, a home and a family and is fairly happy.......so is he free or is he, and his innately friendly nature, being taken advantage of by powerful people who have something to gain by exploiting him?
     
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  20. RoSe41

    RoSe41 Community Member

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    Hi, Muir, it's nice to have the chance to talk with you.

     
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