What (Ennea)type do I come across as?

[KazeCraven]

I'm mostly interested in Enneagram types, if you are aware of the system, but feel free to comment on MBTI too.

I thought I was type 4, then thought I was type 5, then retook the test as objectively as possible and still got significantly higher on type 4, with type 9 a somewhat close second. So I thought perhaps I'm actually a type 9, considering type 9's pretty often get their own type wrong.

I find it hard to believe I'm not one of those three types, considering I'm quite withdrawn.

ETA: If you think I'm probably either 5 or 9, but definitely not 4 for example, you can just pick both. That perspective is also valuable to know about.

ETA2: I have removed the link I posted and have added relevant posts below.
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Test results (latest):
Type One: 17
Type Two: 13
Type Three: 12
Type Four: 26
Type Five: 19
Type Six: 19
Type Seven: 10
Type Eight: 6
Type Nine: 22

 

[sassafras]

Hey Kaze,

I'd love to help you out if I can. Do you have anymore post examples that you feel are representative of what you're like as a person? That thread you posted just seemed to showcase one aspect that still makes it difficult to narrow things down based on the options; a more comprehensive look might help come up with something more accurate.

 

[Tulip]

I don't think you are a Four. Fours typically wouldn't do that many tests to confirm their type, especially not "retook the test as objectively as possible". Also note that you highlighted "ignored all other 'subjective' meaning" in your other thread.

 

[KazeCraven]

I don't think you are a Four. Fours typically wouldn't do that many tests to confirm their type, especially not "retook the test as objectively as possible". Also note that you highlighted "ignored all other 'subjective' meaning" in your other thread.

Yeah, that's the jist of why I decided I was fooling myself about being a four, minus the retaking tests part (which I disagree with). It's really just the second time I've taken a good one.

Hey Kaze,

I'd love to help you out if I can. Do you have anymore post examples that you feel are representative of what you're like as a person? That thread you posted just seemed to showcase one aspect that still makes it difficult to narrow things down based on the options; a more comprehensive look might help come up with something more accurate.

EDIT: See below.

 

[KazeCraven]

Typing Information

I thought I'd take a few minutes to coalesce something which would make typing me easier. Below are posts that I think characterize me.

-----
Okay, here's some material I've posted around the forums:

In response to sacrificing happiness:

Depends on what exactly we mean by happiness, because I enjoy a plethora of emotions (including anger and melancholy).

sure.. many things. i'd sacrifice short term happiness for long term security, i'd sacrifice my own happiness for someone else's if it meant more to them than mine did to me.. i'd sacrifice happiness for information and knowledge, if the latter brought me closer to understanding the reality of the situation i'm in.

^^^This.

And I'd add that anything which amplified the meaning of my life. I'd give up long-term happiness if it meant my life would become pregnant with meaning.

On Nihilism:

I only have one question:

Why does life have to have a purpose? Can't we just say that we 'pooped into existence'?

@Last Dawn: To me, that's akin to asking why we need social interaction. We don't, but (most) people crave it all the same. In fact, to me, having a purpose and overarching life goal is more necessary than human interaction.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to lie to myself and thus I'm stuck with trying to figure out what my own personal significance is. In a way, I suppose I'm stuck with the absurdist line of thought, that we seek but will never find the inherent meaning (if it does exist). I almost wish I could go back to being certain about what's meaningful in life (almost, because I would never agree to selling myself to a lie). The only problem I would have with an inherent purpose would be the old philosophical question of, "why should we do what we are supposed to do, even if our biology or God says to?"

In response to "Do you find that stepping too carefully around people has the opposite effect?":

Actually, yes. I don't deliberately softstep around people, but I'm also not one to poke fun at or tease people, which seems to discourage the people who enjoy that type of interaction. I think it has a lot to do with people expecting me to grate on them a little by speaking my mind, and when I have nothing to comment on they take that as an effort to be nice, which makes them less comfortable grating on me.

Fortunately, there are some people who do that stuff anyway, i.e. people who don't change to fit with who you are, and I find I like those people the most. I think if you don't feel comfortable being somewhat antagonistic, you have to accept that some people will be turned off by that. However, if you don't speak up when there really is a problem, that might be something you need to work on. Relationships can't grow if you hide yourself from them.

On self-imposed rules:

I've done it before, but I hated it so much I decided to make a meta-rule where I can rewrite the rules if I am in a position of better judgment later. Granted, it has the downside of me sometimes talking myself out of something good for me, but I'm not really a fan of imposing arbitrary goals like that in the first place.

My priorities would have to change for me to go back to this.

Response to Shai/Chaz Support Thread:

I'm just surprised that they haven't already switched back yet.

In response to " Do you like it when someone takes care of you?":

No, not really. I like being close to people I like, but I prefer situations in which it is clear that there is mutual benefit.

When someone does too much for me, I get the sense that they want something like that in return, and that can be a little irritating, especially if I didn't like the person in the first place. Hmmm, actually I would have to say that I don't like that to be done unless it is by someone who I am already close to. And even then, I only like it if it is done out of a desire to show affection. When someone starts doing it because they feel like they ought to or because it is their duty, then I have a problem with it.

(and after more had posted)

I'm surprised by the number of people who have since voted to be pampered...

Random comments:

Yay! Comments are great.

I know someone quite experienced with the MBTI, and he would say that the 'housewife' is an archetype which anyone could inhabit, whereas ESFJ just is well-suited to adopt the housewife archetype. I would think that your experiences have changed you in a way, but that what you most likely did was handle these situations in an INFJ-ish way. Perhaps the housewife role wasn't satisfying to you, so you either downplayed it or found a way to do it that satisfied your Ni (probably a creative tactic). And perhaps your entrepreneurial experience was shaped quite uniquely due to your type. I would think that if you were to suddenly take over a business that operated in an ENTP-ish way, you'd either change it or get a little stressed out.

I'd guess that they could very well arise due to life circumstances, though I'd be more inclined to say that they change the development we have within our types. For example, a lot of detail-oriented work for you would develop your sensing function so that you can use it better, but wouldn't make you want to do detail-oriented work any more than you do now. Similarly, whatever your enneagram type is, you might develop a wing due to life circumstances, but I'm currently of the opinion that we are born, more or less, into a specific enneagram type too. I say that because both my brother and I are of the same MBTI type, but we clearly behaved very differently as young children. I'm not sure whether this is due to enneagram or perhaps to something else (like the temperaments: choleric, sanguine, melancholic, phlegmatic).

As you can see, I'm just bouncing ideas around here, so don't think I have the answers.

Well, I wonder if gender differences had anything to do with it? Comparing my sons with my neices, they definitely behaved very differently. It is not politically correct to say so, and I loathe the idea of forcing people into gender boxes, but I cannot lie or ignore what I've observed.

You know, that could be it. I'm my brother's brother, so we're not different genders, but there have been studies showing that male children after the first born are much more likely to be effeminate. Which I definitely am: my brother would never ever consider himself to be a type 4. He's too anti-emotion, and you could see this from the time we were little children.

Also, lots of the podcasts from the enneagram institute make allusions to type being defined by parental problems, so it's quite possible that our enneagram develops by nurture. They were included for a reason, I'm sure, but personally none of the suggestions about parental issues were true for me.

How else could we live vicariously through other people?

Besides I despise the way everyone seems so intent on expressing every second of their lives. "I am in the store. I am walking down the cereal isle. I am looking at the Fruit Loops" <actual conversation overheard at the grocery store>

More on this, I have my own questions for everyone: do you consider the way you think and act when you are upset to be an actual side of your personality? I have a hard time reconciling if how I am when I am mad is another side of myself, or rather me through a filter of stress. I often don't like how I behave when I am mad but see the actions as foreign, not as some deep dark self coming out that must be repressed. Anyone else feel the same?

I see it as a part of myself that I haven't chosen to own yet, or am working against. Sometimes I see it as foreign, but usually not.

------

Older material from a completely different forum:

(In response to a silly discussion about "do real men pee while sitting down" after I tried to get someone to distinguish the rule for sitting.):

Honestly it takes more energy for me to sit down, unless I have to take a dump of course. Even if I'm exhausted, I just stand there, kinda wobbling back and forth sometimes tho lol. Because once you sit down then you need to get back up... so over all it's faster and easier to stand up. I've never sat down to pee unless I thought that I had to poop too. Even then, I know I didn't sit down to pee, but it still feels weird that I sat down and only peed.

If you need to take a dump, then you sit down and take a dump, like most people do... Then you just pee in the process. That was just a silly question

Very enlightening. Thanks for clearing that up.

On the meaning of life:

There was an interesting theory on this, and I'll try to put it together as best as I can. It doesn't directly answer the meaning of life, but for the record I believe the meaning of life is to have who we are and who we want to be line up before we die, with all the life experiences that that entails.

The logic stems from the idea that there is not an infinite amount of time before now, because if there was an infinite amount of time before now, we never would have reached the present. But if the universe has a beginning, then someone or something had to have triggered this beginning. And if this being/thing is present in another realm that has time, then it too must have a beginning. Ultimately we must trace everything back to something that exists in a timeless realm, because it must have existed infinitely or, more correctly, must exist outside of the constraints of time such that this issue of a beginning and an end is no longer an issue. This being could be God, but I would assert that this "God" is actually us, creating a universe that allows us to change and grow and become the people we want to be. Nevertheless, whoever is sitting in that timeless realm is unchanging, because without time there is no change.

In response to "What motivators do you use in order to make yourself want to exercise?":

I do yoga, and that motivates me to do other stuff.

I've already thought it all through, and I can't justify NOT doing it.

It gives me more energy, and I need more energy to make a positive contribution to the world.

Plus, I love myself and don't do anything that makes me feel worse about me!

On unconditional love:

I'm going to put myself "out there" for a diagnosis in a sec, but if you just want to talk about unconditional love in general, that would be great!

Okay, so I've been reading about consciousness and personal growth a lot lately, and unconditional love comes up quite often. At first I thought it was just a BS mentality which will get people to like you so that you can actually start loving for real. But then I keep reading how people "love unconditionally" but still drop people out of their lives, especially family members. How is that loving at all? I'm sorry, but I just don't 'get it'. Is it purely just a mentality, and how to I get in? And does it start with the people you deal with on a day-to-day basis, or the masses of "out there" people?


The long and short of it is that I'm an INTP: Introvert, Smart, Overanalyze, Dreamer. I always feel that I am an outsider, but I like my private time so I never would seek out relationships. But I've experienced a massive need for growth after meditating for the past year and having a crappy, uneventful first year of college. And I feel the area I need the most of it in is the emotional and social aspects.

I can post a more detailed background if you think it would help you understand me and be able to explain better. Oh, and by the way I'm 19 now.

(relevant response)

Pardon me, Kaze, but you say first you thought it was BS, and then you questioned how it's loving it all and you don't get it.

In that case, why would you want in? Why would you waste your time figuring out how to do it?

What's in it for you? What would be the purpose, for you, of experiencing unconditional love?

(next post)
Well, I guess the real reason is that I am trying to strike a balance with truth, but I am rather idealistic and want to experience the human ideal. Maybe my over analysis of the issue is the very reason I can't get in. I've been a skeptic for a long time, and always operated from a "what's in it for me?" standpoint. But I get the feeling that that mentality is what leaves me feeling like garbage at the end of the day.

You know what? I think it's because I feel that all my problems would be solved if I truly loved unconditionally, but I don't want to be a sucker and don't want to put myself out there only to get used. I want to experience this feeling of deep passion and come to terms with the rest of the world.

Not sure if that explains where I'm coming from. I'll try attacking my beliefs again if it doesn't make sense.

I'm trying to define myself with values that'll help me love who I am. I can't answer who I am yet, not really.

And I was curious as to how people who experience unconditional love also handle values such as doing what is right for that person when that person does something wrong, or how to handle personalities that the "unconditionally loving" person does not agree with.

Umm, and I have an ideal image of myself, but I don't know how to get from here to there yet. And I get the feeling that I'm missing out.

OH, but I also wanted to figure out how one balances love for himself against love for others. Like when two people's need for happiness conflicts with the methods that would bring about that happiness.

I'm guessing I'll be perceived as a type 5, but I'm curious to see what others say first.

 

[KazeCraven]

Ah, I should have added an option for the instinctual variants too.

The question for that would be whether I'm sp/sx or sp/so. I value relationships more than social connection, but it seems to be the case that "sx" relates to assertive traits, whereas "so" relates to compliant traits, and if anything I've been more compliant than assertive over the course of my life.

Thoughts on that would be appreciated as well.

 

[sassafras]

Reading through all that, it is my personal opinion that you are indeed a type four. From what I can gather from these posts, you seem very much in tune with your emotions. Unlike a typical type nine, who tends to downplay or even suffocate their negative feelings, you allow yourself to experience them (and perhaps even find them oddly beautiful). You also talk about being rather sensitive to others feelings, but insist that you aren't prone to avoiding conflict when it gets down to it. Also not a nine trait.

The recurring themes and demonstrated interests in establishing/exploring identities, and the meaning of life, also strike me as rather four-ish... although it seems to be tempered by a very poignant five influence as well.

I have to disagree with Tulip. Fours are very much interested in how they come across to others and see how they can adjust their outside selves with their internal, idealized (and what they feel would ultimately be their authentic) self-image. Like three's, they're interested in building an identity through how it is they are seen, but instead of being defined by what they achieve, I remember reading somewhere that fours will tend to fixate on small details and think about how these details "speak" about them to others... essentially, what makes them individuals. Attempting to respond to a test as objectively as possible doesn't negate four-ness; it's the intention behind the goal that counts.


I guess all this really boils down to, Kaze, is what you're most afraid of... and what motivates you the most. Do you desire personal significance and authenticity, or do you desire to be seen as capable?

 

[BlinkandThink]

You reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally sound like a 4. In particular, this:

I'd give up long-term happiness if it meant my life would become pregnant with meaning.

Because this is how a 7 (which is what I am) is the exact opposite of a 4. I may find a meaning useful, but there's no freaking way I'd give up my long-term happiness for it. When I read that, I said: "REALLY??" out loud ... at my computer screen ... as if it could actually hear me.

Fours are very much interested in how they come across to others and see how they can adjust their outside selves with their internal, idealized (and what they feel would ultimately be their authentic) self-image.

4w3 cares about this a lot. 4w5 tends to be a bit more indifferent.

 

[KazeCraven]

Thanks for the analysis TDHT.

I guess the question I'd have to raise is, "capable in what regard?" I don't mind being inept at many things that people say I should find "important", but I do feel that not being capable at anything is a problem.

However, I guess when it comes down to it, I am concerned about the type of person I have been. I think more than anything else, I try to be the best kind of person I can be, regardless of whether that means I'm dedicating my life to others or performing the most meaningful act I can with my life.

 

[KazeCraven]

You reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally sound like a 4. In particular, this:



Because this is how a 7 (which is what I am) is the exact opposite of a 4. I may find a meaning useful, but there's no freaking way I'd give up my long-term happiness for it. When I read that, I said: "REALLY??" out loud ... at my computer screen ... as if it could actually hear me.

But there's so much more good in life than happiness. I guess we'd have to get into the issue of what exactly we mean by happiness. There are so many experiences that people wouldn't classify as 'happiness', but there's something precious to them all the same.

 

[sassafras]

Thanks for the analysis TDHT.

I guess the question I'd have to raise is, "capable in what regard?" I don't mind being inept at many things that people say I should find "important", but I do feel that not being capable at anything is a problem.

However, I guess when it comes down to it, I am concerned about the type of person I have been. I think more than anything else, I try to be the best kind of person I can be, regardless of whether that means I'm dedicating my life to others or performing the most meaningful act I can with my life.

Type fives are concerned with being capable and competent in their respective environment and they will usually hoard knowledge to this extent. Being "useless" in terms of abilities versus being "useless" in terms of not dedicating the self to an idealized cause would probably be the cleanest cut between deciding whether you're a five or a four with a five wing.

I'm presently on the cusp between deciding between 4w3 and 9w8, although the more I think about it, I lean more toward the former and the latter is simply a part of my tri-type.

 

[sassafras]

Here's some info on the four wings from another forum. Kind of don't like how seemingly negative it makes the two types come across, though. I'll see if I can look up a more milder description

4w5s have a harsher edge than 4w3s and are the true outsiders of the enneagram. They tend to be more intellectual and introspective. They are more likely to philosophize their inner reality. Many 4w5s have an unflinching "this is me so deal with it" persona that's harder and crustier in comparison to 4w3s. They tend to be absurdly original or profoundly eclectic. Either way they have a more "take it or leave it" attitude and are more likely to direct a critical edge at others. Their persona serves more to redirect their shame away from their vulnerable self behind it in contrast to the 4w3 whose more shapeshifting persona facilitates relating to people. The more shame a 4w5 feels the more they implode, or in some cases amplify their persona as a countershame response. As a result 4w5s are more likely to present a more bizarre and even grotesque image in some instances that reflects their feelings of defectiveness combined with a fascination for the macabre that their five wing brings.

4w5s have a great pride in staying "true to themselves no matter what" amidst what changes in the world around them. They accept being isolated from others and are personally invested in their self-image enough to stick with it through thick and thin. They are equally proud of suffering for their weirdness as paying the price for being who they are only makes them feel even more authentic about themselves. It illustrates how they are too complex to be understood by the unworthy who lack the perception to decode their many layers to understand the real them.

Suffering for their internal self-image serves to reinforce their authenticity. The more they suffer for it the more they cling to their internal self-image and 4w5s wear their lack of compromise as a badge of honor for being true to themselves. "I'm completely true to myself and no one can take that from me." They mythologize their own personal tragedy. On the flip side being double-withdrawn they have less of a will to deal with the world and feel more overwhelmed by it. Despite seeking meaning in everything they are more likely to tend towards nihilism. Combine that with being even more true to themselves in response to their suffering and they become more and more disconnected from the world. In a self-destructive cycle the 4w5 holds his head high at never selling himself out like others, but ironically has little to nothing to show for it since he's actualized his identity with futile concepts that have no basis in reality. A feeling of hopelessness sets in and he withdraws from the world more permanently.

4w3s are theatrical, dramatic, and effete. Compared to 4w5s they are generally more ambitious and competitive, and place a greater emphasis on appearing beautiful, desireable, and elite. They tend to feel entitled and exempt. They are said to be divas and aristocrats as their three wing transforms their sources of shame and defectiveness into art and expression, an aloof presentation that incorporates conventionally desireable elements into their style. They have a more glorious self-image and are more inspiration-seeking. They feel a connection with the magical as if they're part of a special class of people with secret powers. They are the outsiders who dream of magically returning to show others what they missed. The magical overtones in their persona are reminders of that to themselves. Compared to 4w5s they have more energy to keep up the act to get by in the world, but are also more likely to feel fake about it afterwards. They balance a greater ability to wear different masks with greater shame over losing their internal substance. They have an amorphous self-image that adapts to others but is in conflict with the core 4 fixation which sees it as "inauthentic". They are less likely than 4w5s to call out others for not being authentic for fear of pointing the finger back at themselves and their many contradictions.

4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game. While they will put up countershame smokescreens to get your attention and see if you are perceptive enough to see and accept the real them underneath, they may seem distant to even close ones to keep up appearances. Ideally they'd have a rich emotional life without having the ugliest parts of themselves exposed.

Underneath a 4w3's more fluid identity their 4ness gives them an awareness of something truer and deeper within themselves that roots everything. Their 3 wing precludes people from seeing fully what is inside them including even themselves. However they know their personal awareness anchor is there no matter where their changeability takes them. They know on a deeper level their fluctuations stem back to a single consistent essence. Still, they wonder if they are fooling themselves. Despite their consistent underlying essence they lead an inconsistent life and wonder if they are being true to themselves. They try to balance selling themselves out in the real world with hanging out amongst the "keeping it real" crowd. They are more likely to go the distance in their career due to their three wing before their fourness causes them to sabotage themselves. In extreme cases 4w3s totally give up on life after finally "making it".

And an interesting observation:

Also something I've noticed within my study of enneagram and observations of people is that people seem to strive to be more like their other wing. Perhaps this is to achieve balance, and they are unconsciously doing this. The 4w3s that I know generally have some intellectual pursuits, and 4w5s have random streaks where they love getting attention and promoting themselves.

 

[KazeCraven]

Hey, I've never seen these descriptions before.

Between these two, my difference with 4w5 is that I really don't have a "this is me, so deal with it" attitude. I don't change myself to please others, but I do have a strong tendency to second-guess myself. Everything else is pretty accurate. The 4w3, I can relate to somewhat, but most of it doesn't resonate strongly with me.

And I don't mind the negativity. I think the negative traits help characterize better, considering I can see my own negative traits quite clearly, and will be pretty quick to deny negative traits that aren't descriptive of me.
----

I suppose my case for type 9, considering that no one has mentioned that yet, would be the fact that I often have difficulty knowing what I want when I am being friendly with someone else (i.e. socializing and not keeping my distance through cold detachment). I have difficulty mediating between my own wants and others, such that I tend to go along with my friends if I'm undecided on something. That being said, if someone suggests something and I know I don't want to have anything to do with it, there's no question of whether I'll hide that dissent.

ETA: Also, this is getting back into possible conflicts between enneatype and MBTI, but aside from being rather detatched and intellectual I don't relate a whole lot to type 5. Then again, these are pretty defining traits of a type 5.

So far, 4w5 is sounding quite accurate (again), though that description seems a lot more well-defined and focused than I am.

 

[sassafras]

I suppose my case for type 9, considering that no one has mentioned that yet, would be the fact that I often have difficulty knowing what I want when I am being friendly with someone else. I have difficulty mediating between my own wants and others, such that I tend to go along with my friends if I'm undecided on something. That being said, if someone suggests something and I know I don't want to have anything to do with it, there's no question of whether I'll hide that dissent.

This is actually a trait that nines and fours share. Nines primarily do it because they simply want everyone in the group to be comfortable and the activity or idea decided upon doesn't matter in itself beyond it's ability to harmonize everyone's interests. They see all the potential perspectives and generally do not agonize over the fact that they lack the ability to decide on one, nor are they particularly concerned with what that means for their identity.

Fours, on the other hand, do it not because they want everyone to get along, but because they genuinely haven't decided on which perspective would be the right one in accordance to their idealized self. Fours are always searching for their identity, for some missing piece of themselves, and never feel quite whole. Nines, on the other hand, don't want to make waves and value harmony and peace of mind, in themselves and others, above all else.

 

[BlinkandThink]

More wing descriptions:

4w3 - Seeking Identity and Image

Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills. When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse, then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.

4w5 - Seeking Identity and Knowledge

Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total. When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

5w4 - Seeking Knowledge and Identity

The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them. When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Clich

 

[TinyBubbles]

wow TDHT you know quite a lot about the enneagram. Kaze I'd guess maybe 9 or 5 for you, for some reason you don't seem like a classic 4 to me. could be wrong of course.

 

[KazeCraven]

This is actually a trait that nines and fours share. Nines primarily do it because they simply want everyone in the group to be comfortable and the activity or idea decided upon doesn't matter in itself beyond it's ability to harmonize everyone's interests. They see all the potential perspectives and generally do not agonize over the fact that they lack the ability to decide on one, nor are they particularly concerned with what that means for their identity.

Fours, on the other hand, do it not because they want everyone to get along, but because they genuinely haven't decided on which perspective would be the right one in accordance to their idealized self. Fours are always searching for their identity, for some missing piece of themselves, and never feel quite whole. Nines, on the other hand, don't want to make waves and value harmony and peace of mind, in themselves and others, above all else.

Well, I would certainly prefer that people all enjoy any decided upon activity, and I am somewhat bothered by dissonance in preference (when there's clearly a group atmosphere), but for me it's definitely the four-type explanation that fits best. In any case other than just deciding what to do, deciding what I think (or want for myself) is most important.

I will say that I'm pretty sure 9w1 is in my tri-type.

wow TDHT you know quite a lot about the enneagram. Kaze I'd guess maybe 9 or 5 for you, for some reason you don't seem like a classic 4 to me. could be wrong of course.

I have picked up on this as well. Any thoughts jump out to you as to why?

Ironically, I don't think I'll really come to a definite conclusion on this issue either, but I appreciate all the responses.

ETA: I say that because regardless of how I'm perceived, I can see a part of myself in all three of these types. It could be that it would all make sense in terms of wings and tritype, but I doubt that.

 

[Tulip]

Kaze, for some reason you don't seem like a classic 4 to me.

Fours are self-referential and subjective by nature. They are in the feeling triad and uses their thinking process to stimulate their feelings. They don't need to gather external data like different test results or polls in order to reach an objective conclusion that they are a certain type.

 

[KazeCraven]

Fours are self-referential and subjective by nature. They are in the feeling triad and uses their thinking process to stimulate their feelings. They don't need to gather external data like different test results or polls in order to reach an objective conclusion that they are a certain type.

[MENTION=1601]Tulip[/MENTION]: Well, yeah. It's pretty similar to the descriptions I read initially, and that's what I identified with in the first place (this thread), but when someone brings serious doubts to your analysis you (at least I do) make sure you aren't deluding yourself, especially since I did exactly that with MBTI and turned out to be pretty wrong. (INFJ =/= INTP)

That being said, I took the time to read this description. It's not perfect, but it's still closer than the descriptions I've read of any other types. I can see a problem regarding the 'feeling' center, considering that oftentimes my feeling response seems very quiet, but when they are there I definitely identify with them. This would probably point to my heart triad not being my primary.

My problem with your argument is not that I disagree with the points you are bringing up, but rather that it is a completely negative one in that you're saying I'm not a four. Sure, I can find good reasons why I'm not any of the types, as none of them fit perfectly. For example, I am rather introspective and cerebral (type 5), but I'm not particularly concerned about competence, nor do I seem as inquisitive and enamored with knowledge as 5's seem to be. For type 9, I have been rather easy-going and have had difficulty defining myself, but in the process I've intentionally cut myself off from nearly everything. And for type 4, I agree with nearly all type 4 sentiments and desires, but I clearly have a lower degree of feeling, and a lower confidence in my own identity and my ability to see myself as I am.

 

[Tulip]

My problem with your argument is not that I disagree with the points you are bringing up, but rather that it is a completely negative one in that you're saying I'm not a four. Sure, I can find good reasons why I'm not any of the types, as none of them fit perfectly. For example, I am rather introspective and cerebral (type 5), but I'm not particularly concerned about competence, nor do I seem as inquisitive and enamored with knowledge as 5's seem to be. For type 9, I have been rather easy-going and have had difficulty defining myself, but in the process I've intentionally cut myself off from nearly everything. And for type 4, I agree with nearly all type 4 sentiments and desires, but I clearly have a lower degree of feeling, and a lower confidence in my own identity and my ability to see myself as I am.

I don't see being not a Four is something negative. I was just trying to narrow down your options as it is very common that many people mistype themselves as a Four to begin with due to a misunderstanding on what are essential to make up a Four. At this point, I do not have enough of a read of what type you are without spending more time in reading more of your posts.

Have you already looked at the misidentifications part at the end of the Four descriptions in the link I posted earlier? How do you feel yourself when comparing 4 to 5 and 4 to 9?