What do thinkers feel? | INFJ Forum

What do thinkers feel?

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by AUM, Sep 3, 2009.

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  1. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    I'm curious to know of what exactly do people who proclaim have type preferences for "thinking" actually feel? How do emotions manifest to this group and how does it affect them when making a decision. I know that making a decision for a thinker is based more on logical and objective observation, but what happens to the subjective and emotional side to an issue that's being discussed/debated?

    Also they seem to say this a lot " don't take it personally dude", what exactly does that mean? So if they say " you're wrong" and I get all serious about it and they reply me with an " don't take it serious" afterwards, how is it not possible to take it serious when to me it seemed like an offense to my intellectual?
     
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  2. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    If you're wrong you're wrong. You just need to adjust your knowledge. That is all.

    We feel things, we just don't feel the need to base our actions on that... Truth be told, I've not a clue how ENTPs "feel", we just do.

    Taking being told that you're wrong as offensive, is very childish. If you're wrong you're wrong, if you're not, you're not. If you don't think you're wrong then argue the point. However arguing when it's obvious you're wrong is childish. Which is why I view Christians who argue creationism and against evolution as stupid.
     
  3. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Do Ts apply logic to relationships? Like "getting married is the logical (or illogical) thing to do?
     
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  4. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    They feel the way we do, but to a lesser extent. The way they perceive and operate mainly in regard to "feelings" and social interaction is different. Go read the INTJ forums about social interaction if you want to get an idea. Its fun watching the INTJ's trying to construct a system of social interaction based on Te. Like they would rather go through that complex process than use Fe.
     
  5. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I think they know, usually via Fi or some other function, that it is what they want. They justify it with Te or whatever, but they don't base their decision solely on that. They can't, even if they think they can and do.
     
  6. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Very simply; The ability to think is what sets us apart from most animals.

    Feeling is instinctive in all animals.

    Animals feel, Humans Think.
     
  7. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    The ability to feel is what sets us apart from machines.

    Robots think, Humans Feel.
     
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  8. Odyne

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    are you dehumanizing us INFJs?
    now that's not nice....or am I supposed not to take that personally as well?

    now all jokes aside, they do have feelings, they do feel, however these feeling are justified and there's some sort of a reasoning behind it..ALWAYS

    also, while we have our emotions running wild, they have it tamed and structured, and are most of the time capable of explaining why they feel that way...so to us it seems as if it's pure logic, when it's feelings hiding behind logic
     
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  9. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    I agree that everyone feels but feelers just do it more.
     
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  10. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    Thinkers simply do not associate their opinions as closely with their feelings. That makes it harder to form and explain coherent emotional opinions, while allowing the intellectual ones to be carefully defined and subject to specific scrutiny.


    Yes. In my experience, Ts are much more likely to figure out certain relationship criteria beforehand and then expect their emotions to follow suit. It can be very problematic for a T when dopamine and oxytocin do not cooperate with what se expected to be reliable rules according to which the success of a relationship could supposedly be determined. Of course many Ts are just fine going with the flow, but that comes with experience and maturity.
    Big steps like marriage are probably analyzed with considerable care by most Ts, however, regardless of experience.
     
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  11. OP
    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    Well, it hurts me when people tell me I'm wrong but I try to take it constructively and learn from that. It's just that it takes me along time for me to make up a logical approach to things and when someone challenges that I have to construct a new framework of this new knowledge which frustrates me a lot. But I don't mind people telling me that I'm wrong but it still stings my pride to know that I haven't mastered a subject I thought I had understood.

    I went to the INTJ forums but I really have a hard time understanding their approach to things. It's a good place to use your head but if you say something kind of odd they eat you till no end.
     
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  12. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    You're wrong. :p

    Animals can think and feel in similar ways, just not at as high a level. They can learn, solve problems, navigate, negotiate, love, hate, sympathize and pine for each other. As far as we can tell, they cannot practice philosophy or hold moral ideals outside of instinct, but they surely can think. They are not just reacting to their environments with emotions: they plan, cooperate, invent, and take the time to form new ideas when necessity calls.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    And of course you insult anyone who using Fe or Fi.

    At least Feelers are real about what we feel.

    Wouldn't you agree that a person with a strong feeling side and a strong thinking side is more balanced and therefor desirable.


    To be honest I've seen T's use logic to back up their illogical ideas and hide them using impressive looking logic or rhetoric.

    T's have flaws too. They can be just as illogical as any other. They of course will not admit to this but its most defiantly true.
     
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  14. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    I like being told I'm wrong, it can improve my understanding of things.

    I think Ts are quite emotional they just don't understand or value those emotions. Sometimes they won't realise when their "logic" is being driven or distorted by their own feelings.
     
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    #14 Quinlan, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
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  15. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

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    Of course we feel, lol. I'm not sue I'd say it's "not as intensely" (how can anyone say that about anyone else, anyway?), but I can say that it confuses us a lot more. If someone asks me how I feel, I don't always know. If I'm upset (to the point where it's now uncontrollable, and other people can tell) and someone asks me why, I might have no idea. They probably just take it as a "well, it was a personal question, so he probly just doesn't want to tell me," but truthfully I probably don't exactly know myself.

    They don't affect my decisions because logic is like a step beyond feelings. When you're in a dark room, as a youngun, you might be afraid because you can't see anything. That's partially true... you're more vulnerable to attack in the dark, so the fear makes sense. When you grow up, though, you learn to reason that even though you can't see, there's probably nothing about to suddenly attack you in your locked-room, so you ignore the fact that you can't see, and the initial feelings it brought up, and choose to ignore it.

    Another simple reason they're kept from interfering is because, esp with INTPs, feelings are quite simply a weak point. I think I said it on this forum (though I can't remember if it was here or not for sure), but assaulting an inferior function is the best way to attack someone. If someone tries to make an emotional-argument (like, say, a documentary on animal cruelty in slaughterhouses), it feels like you're being attacked from behind. I want to say "damnit, man! Where's your honor? If you have a point [read: reason], come and argue with me face to face."

    "Don't take it personally" means, well... exactly what shai said. If you're wrong, then you're wrong. What's the problem? Everyone's wrong sometimes. I do understand where feelers are coming from, since they put "themselves" into the things they believe, but I don't even think most sensible Thinkers care very much if people are "right" or not, so long as they're learning. Or... at least, I bet the xxTPs are like that; the xxTJs might have a different idea, though. I'd say that it's most helpful for feelers to understand "don't take it personally" as "I don't think any less of you if you're wrong. Why are you getting so defensive?"

    In general, I don't think there is an emotional side to the things being debated... especially with your Perceiving Thinkers. You're arguing about things that are "out there." I think they look one way, while you think they look another. We're not arguing about how things are as much as we are about how much more likely it is that they're the way I see them. Aside from the INTP-title, I'm probably about the worst stereotype of someone to argue with; I'm one of the (rare, especially among INTPs) very serious Christians, who basically only take metaphysical ideas from the bible (unless it proves itself wrong, somehow), and I started down that path while quite young. Nevertheless, I recently read an argument that absolutely swept the feet out from under a core point in my theology, despite several years of theology classes and lots of self-reading. Do I feel any "less" or personally offended after having been wrong for 6-ish years? No! I just have to go "well... crap. I sure messed that up," and switch perspectives. I actually made a little promise with myself that if I held very, very similar worldviews for more than a few years, I'd start to worry that I'd stopped growing and put some time into figuring out what had gone wrong in that time. So when you argue about something, it's not about yourself at all. It's an opportunity to grow as a person.


    One thing I only half-agree with shai on, though, is that it's childish to be offended if you're told that you're wrong. At least, I think that's very true, but there's a parallel for Thinkers that he demonstrated, but didn't mention. Thinkers are emotionally childish in that they try to ignore their feelings as much as possible (protecting the weaker functions), and have like an unspoken rule that they all think that everyone should be the same in that way. "I don't need to acknowledge/use my emotions, so you shouldn't either" translates --> "people who can't control their emotions as much as I can [in argument] are childish." I really don't think they have any place in argument, and that they hurt things way more than help them, but INTPs at least, as a general rule, act like they don't have any good use at all (except maybe in romantic relationships, a bit--but God knows how they're actually supposed to be used in that context :p). It's really dumb of us.... but *shrug*... what can I say?
     
  16. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

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    ^^That's extremely true, too. I had a period where I was on some meds that messed up brain chemistry, and thought all sorts of ridiculous things. It's not like you can ever really make INTP logic "bad"... but you can very easily control what gets "in". Of course, since logic is only truth-preserving, controlling the input controls the output too. When I finished up the dosage and went back to normal, I could tell easily how everything I was thinking made perfect sense... but with only 1/2 the information I could easily see once the chemicals cleared. Of course, that half was filtered to produce a depressed/suicidal demeanor, for a few months.

    I haven't trusted logic (as separate from emotions) ever since.
     
  17. GaiaGraha

    GaiaGraha Community Member

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    Thinkers have feelings. (duh)
    Just like feelers have thoughts!
    The only people who don't have feelings are sociopaths.
     
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  18. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I use my emotional side all the time.
     
  19. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

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    Yours is tertiary.

    yeah... I guess that didn't link very smoothly with that part of the first post, but that's what I had in mind while writing it.
     
  20. Shaz

    Shaz Community Member

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    As to that animal thing, I don't see how animals are primarily emotional. They're primarily instinctive.


    Humans have both more developped intellect and emotional systems. But it's just a matter of evolution. We're really not that different. I don't think advanced logic is more human than advanced emotional understanding.

    Animals don't have advanced logic like us, but really, do they have universal empathy?


    To me a lot of humans seem emotionally limited, just like a lot of them are intellectually limited.
     
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