What do ISTJs want from INFJs? | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

What do ISTJs want from INFJs?

As an ISTJ, I would say nothing, just listen to their view and soak it up, everything just falls into place after Dat.
 
knight in battle:

I suggest something far more pragmatic: do what you need to do to hold on to your job, short of immoral actions. The present economic crisis is really not a good time to be getting all sorts of idealistic.
 
Asarya said:
ISTJ's are the most difficult type for me to understand. Their cognitive function are the complete reverse and opposite of INFJ. I know 4 ISTJ's well and my relationship with each of them is different based on the roles that they play in my life and their individuality, but there are some similarities. When I was younger I felt that they were too different and hard for me to connect with, but now I feel that I have a comfortable peace with them

One of my close friends is an INFJ. I admire here for her :
-stoic personality (she is really strong and constantly pushing herself)
-her unshakeable integrity on the issues she's deemed important
-her humour ( She can be really funny and lighthearted)
-her adventerous and active spirit (very outdoorsy, does salsa dance, did gymnastics)
-her understandsting and organisation of the pyshical world (incredibly organised, understands or is willing to contemplate how all physical phenomena work, she is a geothermal engineer)
-attention to detail
-amazing memory (places, faces, names, events, math and science)
-very intelligent
-accepting (live and let live)
-loves quality and workmanship and takes care of things (everything about her and her house is immaculate)
-super efficient
-socialble (gets along with everyone I've introduced to her socialy. I almost feel that I could take her anywhere.
-takes a lot of pride in her work and presentation

Some of the things that are hard to deal with are:
-narrow minded
-moody
-sometimes whingy and very negative
-will only accept 'facts' from staus quo and authority figures
-bossy
-can be scathingly bitchy
-too clean (both in home and personality)
-offensive (some of her opinions are awful and cold)
-non-empathatic
-can be judgemental


Why she likes me:
-I listen to her and am genuinely interested in her
-I compliment her and appreciate her
-I justify her quirks
-I let her give me advice
-I listen to her opinions
-I dont judge her
-I openly disagree with her and explain my reasoning
-She thinks I'm mysterious and fun
-I let her be herself
-I dont break promises
-always optimistic

What she doesn't like:
-I'm less organised than her
-Im 'too intellectual' and boring sometimes
-I wont gossip about people with her
-I hate routines
-I'm airy fairy and not concrete
-I have unrealistically ideals about people and the world
-I dont respect facts and authority figures in the same way
-I'm not as wholesome as her and more experimental
-I miss a lot of details and dont seem to mind

Overall we have a great relationship. I trust her and love her. We trust eachother to care for our children. We enjoy eating and talking. She is very soft around me now, which I think is her fi emerging strongly. She tells me things that I dont think she has shared with others before. I thinks she finds ni fascinating and she has even started entertaining some of my insights. She is what I would call a great 'citizen', hardworking, loyal, dutiful, lawful, trustworthy, reliable, resourceful and efficient. Someone you can set your clock by.
I feel though that we cant connect on a fundemental level and we cant talk about things that I personally find important. Her bitchiness and moodiness is still hard to deal with. I couldnt live with her as sometimes her 'ways' can be draining for me. We live in two different worlds, she lives in the pyshical world, the 'real world' and I live in the world of ideas and possibilities and dreams. We have a lot to learn from each other, can work well together and can appreciate and admire eachother but the distance crossing the worlds is draining
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Your friend sounds more like an istj.
 
uberrogo said:
Your friend sounds more like an istj.
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She is an ISTJ. My mistake, poor attention to detail it seems.


...
Since I wrote this my ISTJ frined and I have become very close. She has started inviting herself over and dropping in, which she was loathe to do before. And she's been calling me all the time to talk about her relationships and ask for health related advice. She told me that I make her feel very comfortable and cared for. And she gave me the greatest compliment ever- she said I was very competent!
I think that we've managed to get past some intangible wall and now we just accept each other and our differences. This is one of the best friendships Ive ever had beacuse we can be totally honest and blunt with each other.
 
knight in battle said:
[MENTION=4576]GracieRuth[/MENTION]

I believe that when the ISTJ is taking advantage of his role as Supervisor, he is imposing his own subjective standard of organization, and it must not only be resisted but argued against and one should not back down --- no matter how "acceptable" it is. One compromise becomes a slippery slope into his giving in to his taking it out on the INFJ to compensate for his own sense of powerlessness elsewhere.

To accept a condition in silence without objecting is to accept a hierarchical structure. Therefore, to resist an ISTJ hierarchical implementation, one must challenge every point of his implicit demand for authority.

Discomfort due to Fe is inevitable but only for the short run. When the ISTJ power grab is consistently resisted, he WILL back down. It is in his blood to seek a stable hierarchy, but he will maintain and reinforce this hierachical structure through strong, pointed statements. It is better to behave above him in this pecking order at all times, even when one does not have the emotional energy to do so. That will create stability in his behavior --- but only until his next round of demands. He is incurably critical and authority seeking. He will never stop desiring the upper hand unless there are consistently louder people. Occasional loudness of logic is something he does not back down from except that he wins the argument, but consistent, confident, or emotional rejection is something that will throw him off.

The effect of this action is to consistently enforce an equalizing relation between the ISTJ and the INFJ, to produce the effect that the two are in two different private spaces rather than within one organization; for the ISTJ is incapable of viewing anyone within an organization, home, or social structure without clear hierarchical structures. If independent of each other and space is clearly defined (i.e., argued for), there will be clear boundary lines between who controls what.
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I suspect that ISTJ's bug us more than any other type. So what? The whole point of using the MBTI is that by understanding the other person you can have a calmer and happier life. Basically,ALLOW the ISTJ to be an ISTJ. Enjoy the benefits of working for an ISTJ boss--all the nitpicky things that have to be done for success will be done. They will keep everyone in the office minding their p's and q's, and make sure3 everyone's drippy noses get wiped. We couldn't do it without them. And quite honestly, it is admirable that they will continue working so long and hard at a task long after the joy has gone out of it, simply because "I should."

It takes all kinds to make the world go round.
 
It has taken me some time to discover what you have in essence said here. I am quite familiar with their ISFJ cousins, and I told myself that the only difference between the "delightful" (but "practical") ISFJs and the ISTJs is that one emotes feeling (giggly laughter) while the other one requires extraordinary energy to do so.

"Allowing the ISTJ to be an ISTJ" is now precisely how I have come to "rationalize" it (Ti). (Ironic, isn't it.) And of course let's not forget that this allows me to discover the wonders of the Si World (which is fantastical in its own right), by comparing them with their ISFJ. (Oddly it hasn't occurred to me to observe Si in them as in the ESTJ complex, but I think I shall.)

So thank you @GracieRuth . Enjoy your ISTJ coworkers in peace. :w:
 
I wonder sometimes if they seek the versatility of the INFJ depending on the situation. My husb. is facing an issue that has stressed him out horribly. He's been trying to handle it himself, and like always comes to me as a last resort. It's the part of our relationship where he has learned to mold to me, not spouting all his thoughts out loud ... b/c when I hear him repeating himself it makes me crazy. So now when he comes to me, he is looking for direction b/c his mind has been going a million miles an hour and he's lost his focus.

During crisis I become the INFJ/INTJ. I tell him specifically what needs to be done. When I talk he says, "You need to be writing this down!" What it is more than anything that I have found is that I am able to articulate in words what is going on in his mind. I organize his thoughts/solution that needs to be done. After that, he is able to sort it all back out. He looks at it renewed, refreshed and empowered. He's able to put back on those imaginary brass knuckles and take on the problem again. Except this time, he does something about it (b/c he knows it will make me crazy if he doesn't. LOL)
 
Versatility is key. A willingness to adapt.

Malleability is what I'm really thinking, but that's not it at all.
 
I like ISTJs, they don't bullshit about things and therefore their input is productive and constructive. Maybe he just wants to be friends, "we don't communicate on the same wave length" seems like such a ridiculous notion to me. Everyone can be related to in one way or another in some context.
 
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Sensor alert. shhhh ^^^
 
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Asarya said:
Since I wrote this my ISTJ frined and I have become very close. She has started inviting herself over and dropping in, which she was loathe to do before. And she's been calling me all the time to talk about her relationships and ask for health related advice. She told me that I make her feel very comfortable and cared for. And she gave me the greatest compliment ever- she said I was very competent!
I think that we've managed to get past some intangible wall and now we just accept each other and our differences. This is one of the best friendships Ive ever had beacuse we can be totally honest and blunt with each other.
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That's awesome! It's great that the two of you both stuck through it all and came out gladder for it.

I always love happy endings.
 
I'm not an ISTJ, but I have a male friend who is, and I love that he doesn't play games; there's no ulterior motive in his speech or his actions. So when he says something, I can take what he says at face value - no more, no less. Do you know what a comfort that can be? It can be difficult to walk on eggshells, wondering what the other person is thinking about you due to a "look" or an action. But you don't get those hidden meanings with ISTJs. Mind you there are quirks and tics that drive me nutty, but they're not bad or evil folks.
 
I'm starting to get it. My ISTJ roommate recently became more cheerful. ("cheerful" hmmm... oxymoronic, isn't it).
After keeping out of each other's business for weeks, he decided to share with me his feeling that he "feels" I've been ignoring him. Wow. An ISTJ who feels? lol

So his internally felt feelings (Fi) are not shown generally but require a longer time before they are expressed. and in this case, it is expressed through verbal explanation (Te?). And I'm thinking, "Okay. So I've been ignoring you. Think of it more as maybe, 'I wanna get out of your way.' " In order to understand what's going on, I'd prefer to sense feeling. Unfortunately, when he told me this "feeling", it was more of an observation of fact.

The thing is I am relieved to confirm what he has been feeling, but I don't plan to start hanging out with him again. The only thing that has improved is the tone of communication. The only thing I'm looking for is a change in the degree to which he may try to act as a manager in the house (Te). Apparently, he hasn't increased, except to "advise" me on how or when to turn the heater on.
 
knight in battle said:
I've always thought that chance or destiny inevitably brought me to become house-mates with a ISTJ (and a couple others, whose types may be ISTP and ISFP). The reason why I became roommates with him was pretty obviously because he seemed like a trustworthy kind of person. He doesn't invite random people over to the house - in fact, he doesn't invite anyone. So far so good. Little did I know that he was such a critical/rude person; he'd literally ask me how I'm doing and do a little friendly small talk; and turn right around with an unsmiling face to critique how I've handled something in the kitchen. Then he'd go back to being the shy and unsociable guy that he is - swinging back and forth between the confident "I'm in charge of this house and am the most responsible/respectable person I know" and the "Oh, gosh, I'd better tread lightly and not disturb my roommates or make any sounds or risk socializing very much" person.

Do I care that he's reclusive? No.
Do I mind that he prefers privacy? No.
Do I mind that he is tradition minded and narrow? No.
Do I appreciate that he's a clean, responsible, and quiet person? Yes.
Are we both left-brain dominant? Yes.

So what is it that he wants? What do ISTJs want from me? And why does he keep hovering around me, when I clearly find him harsh and uninteresting to be around, and we don't communicate on the same wavelength (him insisting on traditional social values + almost absolute routine consistency compared to my changeable framework albeit usually routine life)?
(Worlds apart from my ESTJ friend, who is actually quite friendly.)
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ISTJs just want to listen to you. So be interesting.
 
Bang on Sriracha - my husband is a ISTJ too. I love that he grounds me and he loves that I broaden his world. Yes, he can be 'boring' but I don't see him that way. I actually find a lot of awe in his enjoyment of the simpler things in life. It is rewarding and it slows me down and makes me take note. It has taken a long time to learn how to communicate with him. ISTJs are just straight to the point. I'll look at him staring out of a window, and ask what he's thinking - 'nothing' is the answer. I genuinely find it impossible to believe that someone can be awake and think nothing, and there were many arguments about him not telling me more. But, he is being truthful. It's not that they are boring, or that they don't want to have friends, or they're rude. I just imagine that for me an ISTJs world would be the perfect quiet place to be when I need to escape from the world. Everything is quiet, nothing buzzes with hidden meaning or long winded thoughts that get on my nerves, everything is too the point, has a start and an end, a purpose. That is the wondeful thing about being around an ISTJ - there is, for me, so much more calm than there is in my head.
 
Sriracha said:
My husband is an ISTJ. There are many attributes that they all have in common, but there is also a matter of learning/maturing over time in how they relate to others (especially an INFJ). How we relate to others is something WE ALL learn over time. He will never be able to read you. If you have a problem with something, simply tell him.

In reference to what you have pointed out, be aware that ISTJs live on the surface. There are no hidden magical meanings to them. They see things at face value. If an ISTJ sees a problem with something, they want to correct it. If he tells you there is a pot missing from the kitchen ... he means: there's a pot missing from the kitchen; NOT: "you must have used that pot, got it all dirty, didn't clean it right, maybe broke it and is hiding it from me." I believe they also tend to think out loud. So where he might have said "there's a pot missing from the kitchen", he never directed it towards you to begin with ... he's merely stating an observation.

The attitude of an ISTJ can come off as arrogant or maybe like an elitist. You have to know, that this attitude is NOT their intent by any means, they don't see it. They are natural leaders and people take notice in them immediately. The issue is that if they do not talk to you, it's not b/c they think they are better than you ... it's just that they simply have nothing to say or cannot find common ground for conversation. What ever emotion is displayed by them on the surface, they have a tendency to want others to feel it. If they are excited and elated, they want you to be that way too. If they are pissed off about the issue in the kitchen, they want you to feel it too. REMEMBER, they do this unknowingly. It's just who they are.

To be quite honest, and INFJ/ISTJ roommate situation is ideal. They can make great business partners or make a great team. Both being highly organized and productive to meet an end result ... each can give each other a different point of view they might have never noticed before ... especially when it comes to dealing with conflict. INFJs tend to get too wrapped up in the hidden meaning of things that they forget things are sometimes really NOT that complicated. My husband often says to me: "You spend so much time trying to figure out the meaning of life and forget that you are living it now." It's who I am. He doesn't understand it, he's not wired to understand it ... but he has learned to respect it.

So what draws an ISTJ to an INFJ in my opinion? I can only give you an answer about love relations: Foremost, probably b/c the INFJ will never reveal their core self to anyone ... so that mysterious part of them is what keeps the ISTJ entertained and curious. I believe I know everything about my husband. He is still learning things about me after nearly 18 years of being together. I think an INFJ provides a spark to an otherwise dull routine. What does the ISTJ do for an INFJ? Foremost, they ground them emotionally and provide stability that so many of us seek. The ISTJ is dependable, loyal and honest. The main negative to an ISTJ/INFJ relationship is that an INFJ can meet all the needs of an ISTJ; however the ISTJ cannot meet the emotional needs of an INFJ (the INFJ will have to get that "feeling" from elsewhere.)
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Hi Sriracha, I really liked this posting since I too am married to an ISTJ and I'm an INFJ. I wonder if these men only get emotional in spurts and just not all the time. That is what I see with my ISTJ hubby. The only negative is that he seems to shut down when angry.
 
Sriracha said:
I wonder sometimes if they seek the versatility of the INFJ depending on the situation. My husb. is facing an issue that has stressed him out horribly. He's been trying to handle it himself, and like always comes to me as a last resort. It's the part of our relationship where he has learned to mold to me, not spouting all his thoughts out loud ... b/c when I hear him repeating himself it makes me crazy. So now when he comes to me, he is looking for direction b/c his mind has been going a million miles an hour and he's lost his focus.

During crisis I become the INFJ/INTJ. I tell him specifically what needs to be done. When I talk he says, "You need to be writing this down!" What it is more than anything that I have found is that I am able to articulate in words what is going on in his mind. I organize his thoughts/solution that needs to be done. After that, he is able to sort it all back out. He looks at it renewed, refreshed and empowered. He's able to put back on those imaginary brass knuckles and take on the problem again. Except this time, he does something about it (b/c he knows it will make me crazy if he doesn't. LOL)
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OMG, I can relate since I also have to become an INTJ to relate to him at times. It used to drive me nuts that he was too independant and want to resolve issues on his own first. Most couples around me did not do this. It's all good now though since he comes to me as a last resort and he sees the value and good advice that I give him. :) So happy to read your posts! Does your husband give PDA?
 
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