What causes envy?

[This]

And how can you calm it?

I've been reading about this a lot lately since it is something that I personally suffer with to a pretty extreme level. I especially feel these things if I feel like there is inequality in a situation or that a peer is given any kind of preferential treatment I get extremely envious. Obviously this is quite an unhealthy attitude, I could never join the military because of this I also don't work under anyone exactly, I suppose you could say I work under my clients however the context is something I have control over and there is no hierarchy.

Obviously the root is something else. My initial thought was the possibility of narcissism, however while I do posses some narcissistic qualities I can't relate to the need to tear down others at all, I'm actually very empathetic in that sense, I could never hurt anyone intentionally with the exception of vengeance of a close family member or friend. But that's a pretty extreme circumstance and by vengeance I mean avenging a murder.

My next thought was that it could stem from low self esteem, I'm not really sure how my self esteem is but I think it's high, I feel good about myself and who I am.

My search made me believe I'm a counterphobic 6 disintegrating into 3 I'm a little confused on the enneagram system and the intricacies of it pehaps [MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] or [MENTION=4267]Aleksei[/MENTION] can tell me if this makes sense. At first I thought I might be an ENFP or INFP because I don't really follow rules that I don't believe in personally, however I am actually a pretty strong judger I just go by my own internal judgements rather than the judgements of the group, Which is starting to make me think INTJ something I've always accepted as a possibility but it didn't quite click right.

anyway, sorry to drift so far off topic and into my personal analysis's. I just really don't know what causes me to feel these feelings of envy but I need them to stop. When I get a sense of "inequality" between me and my peers it feels as if a gorilla has just grabbed my stomach and is trying to violently force all it's contents out.

any direction to work on or if anyone can relate would be most helpful.

 

[Arsal]

Off-topic: You are definitely INFJ, in my opinion. I don't know why you're questioning that.

 

[VH]

The person you need to talk to about Enneagram is @arbygil; . She's our resident expert.

 

[VH]

Off-topic: You are definitely INFJ, in my opinion. I don't know why you're questioning that.

The classic Ni and Ti loop. I'm very familiar with this one.

I think this thread might be the most helpful for you if you want to decide upon your type. The videos are long, but the 'guests' are very knowledgable, and do a great job of expressing deeper motivations of these types as well as explanations on how these types develop as well as growth suggestions.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=17778

 

[Aleksei]

I think disintegrating cp6 is right.

 

[Kmal]

I think envy is caused by focusing too much on others and not enough on yourself.

 

[VH]

(removed the wall of text, as it only clouded the issue, and Arby's response nailed it.)

 

[arbygil]

And how can you calm it?

I've been reading about this a lot lately since it is something that I personally suffer with to a pretty extreme level. I especially feel these things if I feel like there is inequality in a situation or that a peer is given any kind of preferential treatment I get extremely envious. Obviously this is quite an unhealthy attitude, I could never join the military because of this I also don't work under anyone exactly, I suppose you could say I work under my clients however the context is something I have control over and there is no hierarchy.

Obviously the root is something else. My initial thought was the possibility of narcissism, however while I do posses some narcissistic qualities I can't relate to the need to tear down others at all, I'm actually very empathetic in that sense, I could never hurt anyone intentionally with the exception of vengeance of a close family member or friend. But that's a pretty extreme circumstance and by vengeance I mean avenging a murder.

My next thought was that it could stem from low self esteem, I'm not really sure how my self esteem is but I think it's high, I feel good about myself and who I am.

My search made me believe I'm a counterphobic 6 disintegrating into 3 I'm a little confused on the enneagram system and the intricacies of it pehaps [MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] or [MENTION=4267]Aleksei[/MENTION] can tell me if this makes sense. At first I thought I might be an ENFP or INFP because I don't really follow rules that I don't believe in personally, however I am actually a pretty strong judger I just go by my own internal judgements rather than the judgements of the group, Which is starting to make me think INTJ something I've always accepted as a possibility but it didn't quite click right.

anyway, sorry to drift so far off topic and into my personal analysis's. I just really don't know what causes me to feel these feelings of envy but I need them to stop. When I get a sense of "inequality" between me and my peers it feels as if a gorilla has just grabbed my stomach and is trying to violently force all it's contents out.

any direction to work on or if anyone can relate would be most helpful.

Everything I highlighted is an emphatic "YES" to cp6. What you may want to do, @Sali, is to view some videos of E6 folks talking about who they are. I pointed VH to these vids, but they are quality productions and they offer a variety of solutions that might help this envy streak you're concerned about ([ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtMVYgx2X0M"]YouTube - ‪Enneagram Type 6 Fear And Courage‬‏[/ame]). Mind you it's long, but if you're looking for information it may help you.

The envy, in part, is because you feel you're as entitled to something and the other person shouldn't deserve it because of "X" reason. You're upset that the person was chosen over you, when you feel more entitled to it (due to your work ethic, or your loyalty, or your eagerness to help, etc). This definitely feels like 6 disintegration to 3, and disintegration is not a fun place to be. You'll need to find a way to address the stress in your life, for stress is usually the reason for disintegration. The Enneagram Institute has a lot of info regarding disintegration here: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtLevels.asp .

If you're "disintegrating" then there's something causing your defenses to go up. If you're integrating, then you're letting some of those defenses come down. The question is, what is causing your defenses to go up? What's going on in your life that is causing you to act out of your norm?

 

[enfp can be shy]

You said it yourself - it's the inequality that causes it. I don't know why you assume it's your fault; it's not.

To check that it's not even about yourself, at all, you should observe if the sense of lack of balance arises within you when witnessing other people being treated unequally - I'm pretty sure it does.

The best is usually to try to analyze the actor of inequality and see why they do it; you'll find there's a good reason for them to be the way they are, as well. On the long run, this gets better among people, so don't let it make you gloomy.

 

[Billy]

And how can you calm it?

I've been reading about this a lot lately since it is something that I personally suffer with to a pretty extreme level. I especially feel these things if I feel like there is inequality in a situation or that a peer is given any kind of preferential treatment I get extremely envious. Obviously this is quite an unhealthy attitude, I could never join the military because of this I also don't work under anyone exactly, I suppose you could say I work under my clients however the context is something I have control over and there is no hierarchy.

Obviously the root is something else. My initial thought was the possibility of narcissism, however while I do posses some narcissistic qualities I can't relate to the need to tear down others at all, I'm actually very empathetic in that sense, I could never hurt anyone intentionally with the exception of vengeance of a close family member or friend. But that's a pretty extreme circumstance and by vengeance I mean avenging a murder.

My next thought was that it could stem from low self esteem, I'm not really sure how my self esteem is but I think it's high, I feel good about myself and who I am.

My search made me believe I'm a counterphobic 6 disintegrating into 3 I'm a little confused on the enneagram system and the intricacies of it pehaps [MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] or [MENTION=4267]Aleksei[/MENTION] can tell me if this makes sense. At first I thought I might be an ENFP or INFP because I don't really follow rules that I don't believe in personally, however I am actually a pretty strong judger I just go by my own internal judgements rather than the judgements of the group, Which is starting to make me think INTJ something I've always accepted as a possibility but it didn't quite click right.

anyway, sorry to drift so far off topic and into my personal analysis's. I just really don't know what causes me to feel these feelings of envy but I need them to stop. When I get a sense of "inequality" between me and my peers it feels as if a gorilla has just grabbed my stomach and is trying to violently force all it's contents out.

any direction to work on or if anyone can relate would be most helpful.

Envy is a twisted cousin to being impressed, only instead of being impressed by someone else or what they have and how they got it, you mix the feeling of wanting what they have with narcissism and believing you deserve it more. It is an irrational feeling because it doesn't take into account any logical way to get what you want, its literally spinning your tires.

MBTI and all the other Ennegram mumbo jumbo isn't going to offer you a real solution to your problem. What you need to focus on is

1. emulating the things that people do that gets them the results you are envious of.
2. If you cant do that or refuse, to push it from your mind as something you dont need anyway.

 

[grt$5vb]

[MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION] I have SUCH a problem with this as well, though I stifle it. Inequality of any kind infuriates me. Squeaky wheels getting better treatment just because they whine, though I DESERVE optimal care, yet never demand it. UGGGGGGGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bickelz]

I do too. @Purplecaryons it's a problem with 4's in general. I'm a 4w5 too.

[MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION] are you sure of your sixyness? (see what I did there)

Idk much about the disintegration of types but i know fours have this problem.

 

[VH]

@Sali I have SUCH a problem with this as well, though I stifle it. Inequality of any kind infuriates me. Squeaky wheels getting better treatment just because they whine, though I DESERVE optimal care, yet never demand it. UGGGGGGGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do too. @Purplecaryons it's a problem with 4's in general. I'm a 4w5 too.

@Sali are you sure of your sixyness? (see what I did there)

Idk much about the disintegration of types but i know fours have this problem.

I've been thinking this as well, but didn't want to project. Seems much more like a 4 thing to me. When 4's disintigrate, they become needy like 2's. I did this, therefore I deserve that.

If you're not getting that "fire under your ass" feeling when stressed that makes you want to achieve, suceed, and get things done, then you're probably not a 6 disintigrating to 3.

 

[grt$5vb]

Hugs [MENTION=3545]bickelz[/MENTION]. "Sixyness." BRILLIANT.

[MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] I hate myself for feeling this way, too. I don't wanna care if things are unbalanced. I don't wanna care if dumb shits get more than they deserve. sigh...

 

[This]

Off-topic: You are definitely INFJ, in my opinion. I don't know why you're questioning that.

In the past many have believed me to be a sensor, it's quite possible as Ni isn't something that I can strongly relate to given it's descriptions, also certain descriptions of Fe don't resonate with me I don't take my morals from the "group" even though I can see the groups point of view and see prospectives empathetically through others eyes.

The classic Ni and Ti loop. I'm very familiar with this one.

I think this thread might be the most helpful for you if you want to decide upon your type. The videos are long, but the 'guests' are very knowledgable, and do a great job of expressing deeper motivations of these types as well as explanations on how these types develop as well as growth suggestions.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=17778

I'm unsure what the Ni, Ti loop is although I have heard the term before. I'm chipping away at the videos, so far I've just watched 4 it seems to resonate but I'll have to watch the others. I also picked up Riso's book today and did a bit of skimming on 4's and 6's

I think envy is caused by focusing too much on others and not enough on yourself.

It could be. although this seems to fluctuate for me personally, my focus tends to shift back and forth between myself and others.

Everything I highlighted is an emphatic "YES" to cp6. What you may want to do, [MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION], is to view some videos of E6 folks talking about who they are. I pointed VH to these vids, but they are quality productions and they offer a variety of solutions that might help this envy streak you're concerned about (YouTube - ‪Enneagram Type 6 Fear And Courage‬‏). Mind you it's long, but if you're looking for information it may help you.

I haven't dug into that video yet but I will do. I have certain issues relating to 6 descriptions because of the "authority" factor. I don't necessarily believe in hierarchical authority and especially not for myself. which is starting to make me think 4 the reason cp6 made sense was because it's similar in that way. but being that in the past people have figured me for a 3 it makes all too much sense to be a cp6 disintegrating into 3.

The envy, in part, is because you feel you're as entitled to something and the other person shouldn't deserve it because of "X" reason. You're upset that the person was chosen over you, when you feel more entitled to it (due to your work ethic, or your loyalty, or your eagerness to help, etc).

Partially true, but only partially. Usually I don't feel as if the other person doesn't deserve it or deserves it less in any way, sometimes it feels that way but this is something that's been going on with me for a very long time.

This definitely feels like 6 disintegration to 3, and disintegration is not a fun place to be. You'll need to find a way to address the stress in your life, for stress is usually the reason for disintegration. The Enneagram Institute has a lot of info regarding disintegration here: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtLevels.asp .

Thank you for the link.

If you're "disintegrating" then there's something causing your defenses to go up. If you're integrating, then you're letting some of those defenses come down. The question is, what is causing your defenses to go up? What's going on in your life that is causing you to act out of your norm?

The bolded part of your post really made me think, because my first thought is "this is the norm" it has triggers so the envy isn't up all the time but it's what I'm used to. It made me step back and think about it a bit and what the norm should be. I suppose that my defenses have been up for a very long time but I can't pinpoint exactly when that happened. I'm not sure why my defenses are up but it is admittedly quite hard for me to trust anyone.

You said it yourself - it's the inequality that causes it. I don't know why you assume it's your fault; it's not.

To check that it's not even about yourself, at all, you should observe if the sense of lack of balance arises within you when witnessing other people being treated unequally - I'm pretty sure it does.

The best is usually to try to analyze the actor of inequality and see why they do it; you'll find there's a good reason for them to be the way they are, as well. On the long run, this gets better among people, so don't let it make you gloomy.

I've noticed this a bit, inequality in other situations and such. I remember getting livid the first time I read to kill a mocking bird. And got quite interested in reading a lot about Malcom X after that.

Envy is a twisted cousin to being impressed, only instead of being impressed by someone else or what they have and how they got it, you mix the feeling of wanting what they have with narcissism and believing you deserve it more. It is an irrational feeling because it doesn't take into account any logical way to get what you want, its literally spinning your tires.

MBTI and all the other Ennegram mumbo jumbo isn't going to offer you a real solution to your problem. What you need to focus on is

1. emulating the things that people do that gets them the results you are envious of.
2. If you cant do that or refuse, to push it from your mind as something you dont need anyway.

Hmmm, I tend to agree to an extent. Most of the results of other people that I wanted are things I have done and gotten. I've grown three small business from the ground because of this. the problem is that in life, decisions often rest on the shoulders of others. I can't change the rest of the world I can only change myself. Learning how to push the envy from my mind as something I don't need is the struggling point here, I would very much like to do that.

[MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION] I have SUCH a problem with this as well, though I stifle it. Inequality of any kind infuriates me. Squeaky wheels getting better treatment just because they whine, though I DESERVE optimal care, yet never demand it. UGGGGGGGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do too. @Purplecaryons it's a problem with 4's in general. I'm a 4w5 too.

[MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION] are you sure of your sixyness? (see what I did there)

Idk much about the disintegration of types but i know fours have this problem.

I've been thinking this as well, but didn't want to project. Seems much more like a 4 thing to me. When 4's disintigrate, they become needy like 2's. I did this, therefore I deserve that.

If you're not getting that "fire under your ass" feeling when stressed that makes you want to achieve, suceed, and get things done, then you're probably not a 6 disintigrating to 3.

I do get that "Fire under my ass" in fact. The problem is I can't do much with it in certain situations. what would a 4 disintegrating to 2 look like in a similar situation?

 

[grt$5vb]

AHHHH-parently ME... DONNNNN'T be that!

Incidentally... I have a roommate who is a two, and I loathe almost everything about her... sigh... AWESOME.

 

[VH]

@VH I hate myself for feeling this way, too. I don't wanna care if things are unbalanced. I don't wanna care if dumb shits get more than they deserve. sigh...

I'd give you 8 advice, but it wouldn't work for you.

"If you don't want to care, then don't. If things are unbalanced, then balance them. If you're not getting what you deserve, demand it. And if people won't comply, make them wish they had or find people who will. Next."

 

[Morgain]

I have also read that jelousy is a tread that 4's posses. What is the difference between jelousy of a 4 and a 6?

 

[This]

I have also read that jelousy is a tread that 4's posses. What is the difference between jelousy of a 4 and a 6?

Well after having watched the videos, 6 envy is "I want what you have" and 4 envy is "I want to be you" and least that's what I got to an extent.

type 4 envy:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fear2AusBto"]YouTube - ‪The Cure - Why Can't I Be You Lyrics‬‏[/ame]

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Envy: Hatred of the things/qualities one has.


True envy will only desire something which someone else possesses. If it should come to pass that the envious person come to possess those things they envied - they will not be content.


It could be that the hatred of one's things is a type of self-hatred by proxy.