Veganism? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Veganism?

Roddy said:
It was pretty easy, not something that happened overnight though! Over a few months I ate less and less meat, eventually stopping for weeks at a time until one time I just never started again. Iv'e never felt more alive. Some say the word vegetarian came from the latin vegetus meaning lively, I'd say it's fair to say that far from making you tired it actually increases energy! :m148:
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My sister is drifting along that way. I don't think she'll ever go complete vegetarian, but she can no longer digest red meat well. Pork is okay in small portions. Her protein preferences are chicken and fish. I pass along all the interesting bean and tofu recipes I've tried.

All in all, I love it when she comes to visit cause I usually have a back log of interesting dishes I want to make for her. I love veggie peoples! They make the best culinary guinea pigs!
 
Wow, totally forgot about this thread for a sec, thank you for all the replies and I am considering becoming a pescetarian; so I decided to look up some things on veganism (yes, I know it's a lot different) The attitude of these people are, somewhat, annoying, at least, the ones that were on tv.
 
IMO What is most annoying to me is the better-than-thou attitude the dedicated vegans take. Like they have been elevated above me because they are chosing a animal-free diet (Although I knew one hard core vegan that used to sneer at my burgers while munching her tofu and bean sprouts and sporting a leather handbag, needless to say that acquaintance-ship didn't long).

I also detest when they force the lifestyle on their kids....AND then teach the kids to scorn their peers.

Veganism/vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice. Not a soul saving moral stance. Furthermore it's a choice only made possible by the wholescale plunder of the planets agricultural resources. I'd like to see the vegans maintain their animal free diet gatherer-style.
 
alcyone said:
IMO What is most annoying to me is the better-than-thou attitude the dedicated vegans take. Like they have been elevated above me because they are chosing a animal-free diet (Although I knew one hard core vegan that used to sneer at my burgers while munching her tofu and bean sprouts and sporting a leather handbag, needless to say that acquaintance-ship didn't long).

I also detest when they force the lifestyle on their kids....AND then teach the kids to scorn their peers.

Veganism/vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice. Not a soul saving moral stance. Furthermore it's a choice only made possible by the wholescale plunder of the planets agricultural resources. I'd like to see the vegans maintain their animal free diet gatherer-style.
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I agree, but I think since we have a 'wholescale plunder of the planets agricultural resources' we should be using it more efficiently. At this point, I just want to eat less meat, but i'm still open to eating insects (the only really 'viable' food option to me really)
 
No one should be offended by what I'm about to write, because I have great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, but it pisses me off deeply when this lifestyle is imposed on carnivore pets (cats, ferrets and dogs) by their owners.

Cats & Ferrets (obligate carnivores who do not process plant matter into usable energy and can develop numerous health problems if denied animal protein) and Dogs (opportunistic carnivores who can survive on a mixed diet but should have a regular source of animal protein to thrive) can not make philosophical choices, and imposing a species-inappropriate diet on them is unnatural and ill-conceived.
 
Its all a matter of genetics and evolution. If you have certain genetics you are prone to certain disease or you bennifit more from certain foods. Animals are here to feed us, its just that we have domesticated the easiest ones to attain and that provide the most meat all at once. I don't agree with over killing animals or mass production of gm-ed meat substances but I do think that meat for some of us is necessary for our health. I am semi-vegitarian so I substitute a lot. Example...I love turkey bacon, less fatty and cheap to buy naturally as well. I don't taste the difference because I am used to it, and I can also get my non-vegan partner to eat it too. I lost 40 lbs cutting back on the red meat. I love animals but I don't need the ones that reproduce at the rate of rabbits all over the place either.
Besides, what else would we still have our nice sharp teeth for? We need to tear something up.
 
ZenCat said:
No one should be offended by what I'm about to write, because I have great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, but it pisses me off deeply when this lifestyle is imposed on carnivore pets (cats, ferrets and dogs) by their owners.

Cats & Ferrets (obligate carnivores who do not process plant matter into usable energy and can develop numerous health problems if denied animal protein) and Dogs (opportunistic carnivores who can survive on a mixed diet but should have a regular source of animal protein to thrive) can not make philosophical choices, and imposing a species-inappropriate diet on them is unnatural and ill-conceived.
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I've never heard of vegan people imposing it on their animals, that's ...just wrong. Moonbaby: Some animals that have canines are vegetarians >.>
 
moonbabyam said:
Its all a matter of genetics and evolution. If you have certain genetics you are prone to certain disease or you bennifit more from certain foods. Animals are here to feed us, its just that we have domesticated the easiest ones to attain and that provide the most meat all at once. I don't agree with over killing animals or mass production of gm-ed meat substances but I do think that meat for some of us is necessary for our health.
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I completely agree. Humans beat out animals on the hierarchy. That's just the way it is. Humans hunting animals has been going on for thousands of years, and it is practically written in our DNA. No need to overdue it; we should only take what we need for a healthy diet. I know there may be "substitutes" for meat, but in my opinion there is none.
 
alcyone said:
IMO What is most annoying to me is the better-than-thou attitude the dedicated vegans take. Like they have been elevated above me because they are chosing a animal-free diet.

Veganism/vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice.
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I basically agree, I refuse to push my choices on others, ask Reon :D

But it goes both ways, I've had people try to push their carnivorous ways on me and they can get quite rude, I don't eat meat, that's my choice, I won't push it on anyone else but don't arrogantly turn around and try to tell me I need to eat meat to be healthy as if you know what's best for me and my body :rant:

ZenCat said:
No one should be offended by what I'm about to write, because I have great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, but it pisses me off deeply when this lifestyle is imposed on carnivore pets (cats, ferrets and dogs) by their owners.
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But that is offensive! Pushing it on other people is bad enough but ultimately they should be able to make their own choice, a cat would never willingly choose to avoid meat. Cat's loooove meat! I find that irresponsible.
 
Lol. And I ain't never seen a cat or a dog ignore meat when it's placed in front of 'em. They will eat meat when given the chance, and if they don't have it at home they will hunt for it outside.

So, let's see. Menu of the day: Songbird, mousie, squirrel...or carrot.

Cat/Dog: "Garcon? I'll take the anti-vegan special. To go."
 
Lurker said:
I basically agree, I refuse to push my choices on others, ask Reon :D

But it goes both ways, I've had people try to push their carnivorous ways on me and they can get quite rude, I don't eat meat, that's my choice, I won't push it on anyone else but don't arrogantly turn around and try to tell me I need to eat meat to be healthy as if you know what's best for me and my body :rant:
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Awwww I didn't think it was possible to wuv you anymore than I already did!!!

But yes, it is as rude for people to proselytize their carnivorous leanings as well. And you shouldn't have to put up with that either! After all, omnivores make the same choice.

As for pushing a vegetarian diet on a non-herbivore. How completely irresponsible! That should be covered under animal cruelty laws. No matter how benign it seems, they are depriving those animals of their health in a long and drawn out manner.

The only canine I know of that can eat a mostly vegetarian diet is the Chow Chow and that is because the breed was (is?) used as a source of human food in the Asian countries.
 
My son did his 4th grade Science Fair Project on how to identify carnivores vs. herbivores. He took photographs of our ferrets being offered a plate of carrots and apples (which they ignored, or pulled off the plates and threw in the corner) and then being offered mice (which they immediately snatched and started gnarling on). His concern (and mine) being that so many people think ferrets are rodents, like rats, when really they are super carnivores. Most commercial ferret foods in the US contain almost no meat at all, which results in an average lifespan for them here of approximately 2 years.

Unfortunately, several people (parents, children) were disturbed by the photos and when my husband and I got to the Fair, Brude had (voluntarily) cut little rectangles of sticky notes out and censored his photo display... including this one:

brommouse1.jpg


My Scientist and His Subjects:

BrudeSciFair1small.jpg
 
The parents were upset?? Shoot, they should've praised your son for showing them his scientific genius! They wouldn't have been upset watching a lion taking down a zebra. This is no different. You just taught me something today, too. I didn't know ferrets were carnivores - and I bet most people don't know that, either.

I guess they're kind of like mongoose, then?
 
There are Carnivores and Omnivores. Dogs are Omnivores, Cats and ferrets are Carnivores.
 
Dogs are semi omnivorous. They do better on a mostly meat diet rather than on the mostly grain based commercial diets commonly available.

At least in my dogs I find it is so. I have a Lab/Rott/Chow mix. She's been doing fine on the dog food. My purebred boxer not so much so. The boxer needs twice as much of the commercial food to keep her weight up I've found.
 
Shai Gar said:
There are Carnivores and Omnivores. Dogs are Omnivores, Cats and ferrets are Carnivores.
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I do not agree, Shai. While this is a seriously debated topic among laymen, I think (unless you talk to the first extreme of Vegetarians or the other of Raw Feeders) you'll find most people believe dogs to be Omnivorous or Opportunistic Carnivores, while Cats and Ferrets are Obligate Carnivores.

The dog (Canis lupus familiaris)is a domesticated subspecies of the gray wolf, a mammal of the Canidae family of the order Carnivora. The term encompasses both feral and pet varieties and is also sometimes used to describe wild canids of other subspecies or species.

Dogs are predators and scavengers, possessing sharp teeth and strong jaws for attacking, holding, and tearing their food. Although selective breeding has changed the appearance of many breeds, all dogs retain basic traits from their distant ancestors. Like many other predatory mammals, the dog has powerful muscles, fused wristbones, a cardiovascular system that supports both sprinting and endurance, and teeth for catching and tearing
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Grey wolves are classified as carnivores, ergo, their subspecies, the domestic dog, is what I'd consider an adaptive Carnivore as well.

Domesticated dogs have lived with man for so long that they have adapted to survive on whatever food source they are given, but their physiology (their teeth, their short digestive tracts) identify them as carnivores.

In 1993, they were re-classified as a subspecies of the grey wolf, and there's no confusion as to the classification of the wolf:

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, Arial]Classification of the Wolf:

Kingdom - Animalia (all animals)
Phylum - chordata (animals with notochords)
Subphylum - Vertebrata (animals with a skeleton of bone or cartilage)
Class - Mammalia (Mammals)
subclass - Eutheria (placental mammals)
Order - Carnivora (carnivores. Eg: cats, dogs,bears.)
Family - Canidae (dog family)
Genus - Canis (dogs)
Grey Wolf - Canis Lupis
Red Wolf - Canis Rufus
Domestic Dog - Canis Familiaris. (Some believe the domestic dog is the same as the Grey Wolf (Canis lupus))[/FONT]
 
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Except I give the puppy blade steak every day, and she prefers to eat my vegemite sandwiches... She steals them when i'm not looking and lets her steak (uncooked) sit there for hours.
 
ZenCat said:
Order - Carnivora (carnivores. Eg: cats, dogs,bears.)
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Giant Panda
Diet
Despite its taxonomic classification as a carnivore, the Giant Panda has a diet that is primarily herbivorous, which consists almost exclusively of bamboo. However, the Giant Panda still has the digestive system of a carnivore and does not have the ability to digest cellulose efficiently, and thus derives little energy and little protein from consumption of bamboo. The average Giant Panda eats as much as 9 to 14 kg (20 to 30 pounds) of bamboo shoots a day.


Racoons
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Procyonidae
Genus: Procyon
Species: P. lotor

Diet
Though usually nocturnal, the raccoon is sometimes active at daylight to take advantage of available food sources.[77] Its diet consists of about 40% invertebrates, 33% plant material and 27% vertebrates.[78] Since its diet consists of such a variety of different foods, Zeveloff argues that the raccoon "may well be one of the world's most omnivorous animals".[79]


Grizzly Bear
Diet
Although grizzlies are of the order Carnivora and have the digestive system of a carnivore, they are actually omnivores since their diet consists of both plants and animals.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivora#Diet_specializations

Diet specializations
Carnivorans include carnivores, omnivores, and even a few primarily herbivorous species, such as the Giant Panda. Important teeth for carnivorans are the large, slightly recurved canines, used to dispatch prey, and the carnassial complex, used to rend meat from bone and slice it into digestible pieces. Dogs have molar teeth behind the carnassials for crushing bones, but cats have only a greatly reduced, functionless molar behind the carnassial in the upper jaw. Cats will strip bones clean but will not crush them to get the marrow inside. Omnivores, such as bears and raccoons, have developed blunt, molar-like carnassials. Carnassials are a key adaptation for terrestrial vertebrate predation; all other placental orders are primarily herbivores, insectivores, or aquatic.
 
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