Veganism?

[Reon]

(I don't have a lot of time to post, i'm leaving soon)

Just a few points I don't get about Veganism.

1:Since when has it been ethically immoral to kill animals (Don't plants have feelings to? )

2: I'm all for having a more environmentally friendly diet (bugs and such) and yet, most vegans, seem to swear off all forms of meat

3: I was watching a program on current_ and this women stated that her child was smarter than the rest of the other children because her child was a vegan (I know most of this comment is just mom's pride and such, but still) anything true to this?

Ehrm, there's other stuff that I think you guys might bring up in the long run, so merry christmas to all.

 

[Shai Gar]

Doubtful.

You need meat in your diet or you get sick. We evolved as omnivores, not herbivores.

Besides, Plants have feelings too. When I grew ferns they'd grow great when Beethoven was played. That proves that plants are intelligent.

 

[Lurker]

You need meat in your diet or you get sick.

No. You need a balanced and healthy diet or you might get sick.

 

[Shai Gar]

No. You need a balanced and healthy diet or you might get sick.

To have a balanced and healthy diet, You Need Meat In Your Diet.

 

[Roddy]

You don't need meat, you need to get vitamin B12 from somewhere though, and if not from meat then from fortified soya milk or another source.

 

[Shai Gar]

Calcium comes best from either Sardines or another calcium enriched fish, or Milk.

You need calcium in order to strengthen your bones. You also need fat. And I'm reasonably certain you can't get fat from a plant.

 

[earthtocarrie]

How can anyone resist a well seasoned steak?! ):
I never get Vegans.

 

[Shai Gar]

Or a succulant Medium Well Roast Blade from an Angus Wheatfed calf, with gravy made from dripping the blood into a hot pan with corn flour and oregano.

*drools*

 

[arbygil]

I think everyone's body is a little different, and some folks need fewer animal products than others. Does that mean one can survive on *no* animal products? Well...jury's still out on that. And healthy vegans are in rare supply.

Contrary to opinion, you can definitely get fat from nut, vegetable and fruit sources - coconuts are high in fat and so are avocados. Both can help supplement one's diet. And of course there's corn oil and grapeseed oil, walnut oil...etc. And certain products can be supplemented with calcium - but really, if it's not originally in the food, I'm not sure if it's a good/great idea to force the food to become something outside of its intended purpose.

I used to be a vegetarian, but my body requires red meat at least once every other week. I feel tired and achy without it. But organic sources of red meat are much better, too.

 

[Shai Gar]

Fine. You can't get delicious delicious blood from a plant though.

 

[arbygil]

ROFL! This is true. Sap is no substitute. :hippie:.

 

[Shaz]

Some things like iron are much more easily absorbed by your body when they come from meat. You can't quite replace meat, really.

 

[Lurker]

1:Since when has it been ethically immoral to kill animals

If the first part of that question is serious than the answer is morals are a personal choice, what you find immoral I may not and vice versa, just because someones morals are different to you it does not mean they are wrong. There are also other reasons people refrain from eating meat.

2: I'm all for having a more environmentally friendly diet (bugs and such) and yet, most vegans, seem to swear off all forms of meat

Actually, all vegans swear off all forms of meat, the definition of a vegan is someone who doesn't eat meat or any other animal products like dairy. Why is this a problem for you, don't see how you can be affected by anothers choice to not eat meat.

3: I was watching a program on current_ and this women stated that her child was smarter than the rest of the other children because her child was a vegan (I know most of this comment is just mom's pride and such, but still) anything true to this?

Most probably the mother believes strongly in the choice she's made that she thinks this to be true, if her child eats less processed foods than the other kids who live on fast foods diets than maybe they fare well at school but any kind of general statement like all vegans are smarter is deluded.

 

[Roddy]

3: I was watching a program on current_ and this women stated that her child was smarter than the rest of the other children because her child was a vegan (I know most of this comment is just mom's pride and such, but still) anything true to this?

I don't think it's proven that veganism/vegetarianism makes you smarter, but a study had shown that smarter kids tend to become vegetarian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6180753.stm

 

[earthtocarrie]

Actually, I have a question for any vegan on the forum.

Why is it that mock meat must exist for the vegans? Quite the paradox.

 

[Roddy]

Hey earthtocarrie

I'm not a vegan, but a non-strict vegetarian/pescotarian so I eat fish. The mock meat products like quorn or cauldron tastes nothing like meat, or at least I've never come across one which does. It's just really what they resemble that gives them their name, so if its round and flat and goes in a bun they call it a burger even though it's made of beans. The 'bacon' I tried was more like the sole of a shoe than anything else, it was so tough and didn't taste anything like real bacon.

I think they make them so that you can continue to cook the same meals as eveybody else is eating around the table. It's quick and easy more than actually trying to reproduce some sort of psychological need for meat. I suppose you could also use them in ingredients so you can try out new tasty recipes. Hope that helps Anymore questions just ask!

 

[earthtocarrie]

Hey earthtocarrie

I'm not a vegan, but a non-strict vegetarian/pescotarian so I eat fish. The mock meat products like quorn or cauldron tastes nothing like meat, or at least I've never come across one which does. It's just really what they resemble that gives them their name, so if its round and flat and goes in a bun they call it a burger even though it's made of beans. The 'bacon' I tried was more like the sole of a shoe than anything else, it was so tough and didn't taste anything like real bacon.

I think they make them so that you can continue to cook the same meals as eveybody else is eating around the table. It's quick and easy more than actually trying to reproduce some sort of psychological need for meat. I suppose you could also use them in ingredients so you can try out new tasty recipes. Hope that helps Anymore questions just ask!

Thanks Roddy!

I understand the psychological part, though I found it quite the paradox because the mock meat I've eaten over here tastes has 80% the real flavor of chicken and pork! It's quite nice actually, I'm sorry you had to eat bacon that tasted like shoes ):

On a side note, was it difficult to adapt being pescotarian at first?

 

[Roddy]

1:Since when has it been ethically immoral to kill animals (Don't plants have feelings to? )

Here's a video which shows some of the horror of it. I'd go as far as say it became ethically immoral the moment we knew enough about nutrition to avoid eating the flesh of other animals.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?hl=en&q=earthlings&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iv#

(English version on the bar to the left)

 

[alcyone]

I think some of the health claims regarding vegetarian/vegan diets and what now suffices as the 'normal' diet has to include some sort of discussion regarding what is now used in the foods that comprise the average 'normal' diet. As well as the effect big business food production and agriculture has on the health of the food supply in general.

The addition of preservatives, food colorings, flavoring, etc. While we are all told that this stuff is 'safe'. We are actually being reassured that this stuff is safe in the short term. We won't be getting sick a few hours after eating it. No one wants to discuss the effects of these approved 'additives' in the long term.

Does parallel of American Obesity and the increased use of High Frutose Corn Syrup in processed food and soft drinks over the past three decades have any vailidity? Or is it just coincidence as was reported a couple years ago? Considering that HFCS is extremely cheap to produce, cuts cost for manufacturers to a degree that they can increase profits as well as cutting consumer costs..there is a considerable lobby against any sort of regulation that might reduce the use of such substances in our processed foods.

Is all processed food bad? Not at all. Back in the day (and still in the Amish towns and likely in some of those 'secular' compounds) a family used to can all the vegetables from their gardens, make chutneys, home pickeling, etc...All to get through the winter in some cases. But with large scale business taking over our food production, they do large quantity and need to distribute their wares over both a long distance, as well as over a long period of time. So...they developed ways to extend the shelf life of stuff....And in the process eliminate the healthful qualities of the food they distribute (to the degree that they need to have their vitamins and nutrients re-added).


Considering that here in America, it seems to me that the poor, and lower middle classes are the ones who have a higher percentage of obesity among them. It's not because there is a lack of food, it's because the food they can afford is crap (nutritionally speaking that is, highly processed, high calorie, high fat). I can't blame them however. They are making do with what they have. No one in the industry or government cares about the people, only about the bottom line, and what their pockets get lined with.

Vegetarians and Vegans generally shop at specialty stores, eat lots of fresh fruit and veggies, and pay higher prices for organic and other specialty foods. It follows that a safer and healthier food supply would lead to healthier people.

As for the choice of veganism, or vegetarianism...I think it is a choice of people who CAN make the choice. I mean it's not like we are dependent on growing our own food, or hunt it, or gather it anymore. But I also think it's folly for anyone who makes that choice to pin it on ethics or morals. If they were starving....and I do mean starving as in it's been a week or more without food with no possibility of getting to their tofu and sprouts...I think they'd be gnawing on whatever food source they could find just like anyone of us would.

In the end, its about balance. People who eat too much meat are just as unhealthy (albiet in different ways) as those who don't eat enough protein.

 

[Roddy]

It was pretty easy, not something that happened overnight though! Over a few months I ate less and less meat, eventually stopping for weeks at a time until one time I just never started again. Iv'e never felt more alive. Some say the word vegetarian came from the latin vegetus meaning lively, I'd say it's fair to say that far from making you tired it actually increases energy!