Two sides of self-control

[Erlian]

Totally MBTI unrelated.

I have both high and low self-control.
The main reason I'm looking into this topic is procrastination, which I'm currently experiencing as an issue.
The lack of self-control is often listed as the reason to procrastination. But hey.. I have really good self-control, right?

I can withstand most social pressure. I can withstand bodily urges. I rarely buy/eat unhealthy food. I never really do anything stupid, even when I'm drunk with a tiny few exceptions. A friend wanted to speech at my birthday about all the crazy shit I did the year before, but he simply said that he couldn't find anything after asking around at all my friends. It's even with stuff I like. For example the entire new House of Cards season just came out. I have a friend who I want to watch it with, but she doesn't have any time this week. She was surprised I was willing to wait a week. I don't really mind waiting to do something fun if I can do it later anyway.

However on the other side I have bad self-control when it comes to taking action. Procrastination is obviously the prime example. But it happens more. I can prevent myself from eating unhealthy food, but don't eat healthy food instead. Mostly I just end up eating nothing. I don't exercise enough (and really, then I'd loose even more weight).

Basically I can stop myself from doing anything, but I have a hard time starting something.
Nowhere I've been able to find information abouton these two sides of self-control. The only link I can imagine is inhibition and excitation in neurons. There could be a physiological explanation to this. But that might be a bit far-fetched. Maybe I can name the first self-control (that prevents you from doing something bad) negative self-control and the second (that enables you to do something good) positive self-control.

Anyone knows anything about this topic? Any sources?
What about yourself? Do you have high self-control? Or do you have something like I do, high negative self-control but low positive self-control?

 

[sassafras]

People procrastinate for a bunch of reasons, and there's a whole slew of literature out there on it. But at the end of the day, there's no sense in over-complicating things by trying to plot where your self control lies on some kind of task-specific spectrum. You have self-control. Everyone has self-control. The difference between people who procrastinate on a task and the people that don't is that the people that get that shit done care about it more. This is because either the reasons they have for doing a task are more compelling than yours or they have a more sensitive perspective on the consequences of what will happen if they don't.

That's pretty much it.

You probably don't eat healthy because it's not a priority for you. Losing some weight is, so that's why you can abstain from eating junk for a while, but there's nothing about health food that excites you or compels you to eat it, so you don't do it. That and generally eating healthy requires more effort, not only in preparation, but because its out of your comfort zone. It's easier to sit and do nothing than grapple with the feelings of resistance that inevitably pop up whenever you're trying to change a habit.

The answer isn't to sit and think about why you can't get shit done. Just do it. Just taking blind action builds momentum and it makes it easier to get more stuff done.

 

[barbad0s]

Learn by practicing. Learn by doing. Make a new brain lol.

 

[Erlian]

You probably don't eat healthy because it's not a priority for you. Losing some weight is, so that's why you can abstain from eating junk for a while, but there's nothing about health food that excites you or compels you to eat it, so you don't do it. That and generally eating healthy requires more effort, not only in preparation, but because its out of your comfort zone. It's easier to sit and do nothing than grapple with the feelings of resistance that inevitably pop up whenever you're trying to change a habit.

Close. I am actually forcing myself to eat more. Need more weight. I don't think I am too skinny, but I feel too skinny. Main reason I don't eat unhealthy food is because I don't like it or because it's expensive. The part about preparing healthy food is true, but it's not that bad. I eat try to eat 200g vegetables everyday. I eat an orange everyday. The only thing I regulary drink is water, because other drinks have to be bought at and transported from supermarket (effort, effort) and tapwater is clean here). I drink a lot of water too. The most unhealthy part of my eating habits is that I sometimes just skip a meal if I don't feel like it. And I don't variate a lot.

The answer isn't to sit and think about why you can't get shit done. Just do it. Just taking blind action builds momentum and it makes it easier to get more stuff done.

Yeah I learned that years ago. The theory. Not the practice.
It mostly works closer to the deadline. I wish it'd work a month before though.
I'm learning a new language too atm. The theory, vocabulary, sentence structure is easy. Actually speaking it spontaneously, a lot harder.

Learn by practicing. Learn by doing. Make a new brain lol.

Yeah. I found a nice link with some exercises: http://www.apa.org/ed/precollege/ptn/2014/12/self-control.aspx
I never learned this working discipline. I always passed all my tests anyway.

Setting the procrastination aside, I still haven't fond answers for my different types of self-control.
If I can't understand something I will keep looking for answers. If I can't get them here, I'll look somewhere else.

 

[Erlian]

I actually don't see procrastination as a lack of self control. I see it as you know how long it will take you to do something, when the time comes that you can't put it off any longer, wait a little more, adrenaline kicks in and you get it done probably faster and better than if you took 3 weeks to do it. It is the guilt over feeling lazy you have to get rid of. As long as you eventually get it done and do it well, who cares if you did it more efficiently or over time like planner types?

Yes, I can also stop any behavior dead if I choose. I always valued this quality in myself and others.

I don't see it that way.
Procrastination is bad for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrastination
It hurts your results, feels bad and causes stress.

It's the case that I want to get something done. But I don't have a definite deadline for it. My body/heart/whatever doesn't seem to want it enough. Every rational argument in my mind says it's better to do it now.

One might say that I just don't want it enough. Well, that might be true, but then how do I increase my desire for it? Because not wanting to do it (and thus not doing it), hurts me short and long term.

 

[Erlian]

Who says? There is no proof of this. If you rationally know when you need to get it done and do it, why does it matter if you jog or if you sprint? Revel in your laziness! You don't want to do it because you don't have to. Yet.

There's plenty of proof for my first claim. Check the wiki link I gave, they list a few scientific articles and claim there are plenty more.

Can't find any scientific sources for my second claim obviously. It makes me feel bad. The closest is that most procrastinators see procrastinating as problem they want to overcome or a malpractice they want to lessen.

Other effects on students (by far the biggest group of procrastinators) I found instead (scientifically backed):
- Higher amounts of academic misconduct (cheating, fraud etc)
- Less healthy at the end of the term (study speculated whether it was because of the stress (hypothesised) or because they postponed going to a doctor if unhealthy).

Oh and there's a gazillion more self-help articles and websites that claim negative effects to procrastinating. But that's just thousands of people saying it, not really scientific proof.
This website has a surprisingly large list of negative effects: http://www.overcomingprocrastination.net/effects.htm
The only one that's missing seems imminent death

Some people even define procrastination as 'unnecessary/excessive/<something bad> postponement'. What you do would be allowable postponement.

 

[phaedra]

It could be that you spend so much time exerting control in certain aspects of your life that you have no energy left to soft of "move on" from those things and branch out into the things you want to start doing. Maybe you are stuck in the same patterns of life, seeing the control as such a normal and comfortable path. I find it is really hard to branch out and do new things because I am used to the old structure and I understand that structure. When you go out and do new things, you are basically operating with a blank slate. All possibilities could be expected, and you have to spend a while watching the situation before you can actually get involved and start liking it. I see you are an INTJ, so I'm kind of describing the lines of my introverted intuition.
You didn't really mention, but what kinds of things do you want to start? Perhaps you have trouble with procrastination because you don't really have any idea what you want your next steps to be, but that obviously doesn't apply if you DO know what you want to do.

 

[Erlian]

Lol! Imminent death. Bottom line is: do you complete what you need to complete?

Eventually, yes. Mostly not on time though. And with too much guilt and too much energy invested. Also at the time I actually get working I disregard health stuff. I might not sleep for an entire night for example.
I'm writing my thesis at the moment. There's no hard deadline. My supervisor returns from three week holiday tomorrow. I was supposed to have done quite a bit in this time. Haven't done a thing yet.

So bottomline. Yes I complete what I need to complete except with at least one of these: more energy invested, lower quality, missed deadline and disappoint groupmembers/teachers.

 

[Erlian]

I understand. I did a similar thing with my thesis as well. I knew my mentors would give me an extension but had to get the proposal done and was late. I ended up getting sick with bronchitis which made it all worse. It was that I knew it was such a huge project that getting started seemed impossible. I needed that fear of failure to kick me into gear and was still late but did very well once it was done. Maybe you need fear and adrenaline, too. I wonder if there is some way to replicate that feeling before a deadline looms?

Dunno. Am already mailing about this with my trainer.
We have a specific trainer that guides us through the process stuff. We also have to do an assignment on the process. Self-evaluation and all. We have that almost every course. The report also counts towards your grade.
I'll tell my supervisor about it too, maybe he can give me more small deadlines or something.

Still wondering how self-control can be split

 

[Scientia]

[MENTION=12103]Erlian[/MENTION] - good luck! I don't know about self control being split but if it is part of who you are, work with yourself. Changing who you are is even more difficult than admitting you procrastinate.

 

[MrSquared]

I find that I often use procrastination and a scapegoat for when something is really bothering me. AKA if I tried something new and failed abysmally (or was just unhappy with my results) I'm not always super excited to dive back in and try again. There are a couple of reasons that go along with this reaction, but I find that distraction VIA procrastination is my go-to response to failure.

AKA: "Well that didn't go well, I really wanted to succeed. I guess I'll go do something that I KNOW I can do well."

Just an observation.

 

[Solongo]

Totally MBTI unrelated.

Basically I can stop myself from doing anything, but I have a hard time starting something.
Nowhere I've been able to find information abouton these two sides of self-control. The only link I can imagine is inhibition and excitation in neurons. There could be a physiological explanation to this. But that might be a bit far-fetched. Maybe I can name the first self-control (that prevents you from doing something bad) negative self-control and the second (that enables you to do something good) positive self-control.

Anyone knows anything about this topic? Any sources?
What about yourself? Do you have high self-control? Or do you have something like I do, high negative self-control but low positive self-control?

I experienced this and continue to experience this on different levels. Not in the social context as you had. Procrastination to me is not so cut and dry like many self help people make you believe. Procrastination is a clue into what is working and what is not working internally regarding the thing you wish to accomplish. Since i don't know how you accomplish your tasks and goals; it is hard to say whether you have a positive or negative correlation with procrastination.

For creative types; procrastination is part of the deal. Meaning it manifests similarly to creative incubating - you are simply not ready to embark on a new project yet no matter how much your analytical mind forces you to act. mainly because creative people work on an ebb and flow type of system. There are periods of activity and inspiration where taking action comes easily and you do your best to capture your inspiration. After a very long period of creating; there is always a period of incubation, rest and recharge. I do not know if this will apply to you but i usually work like this with my projects.

Procrastination also reveals a clue between how your emotional/creative state works or doesn't work well with your analytical mind. The mind is very structured and holds many beliefs regarcding taking action and accomplishing. it is very similar to that of a drill sergeant - allowing no room for impasse,rest and recuperation - pretty much always on the go, go, go and this could create internal conflict of wanting to take action but something is holding you back. This holding back should not be judged as not being able to take action - instead it should be investigated further as to what the real rush and goal of accomplishing whatever it is that you are trying to work towards. Sometimes it is the fear of what will happen after you take action or simply the unknown on whether you will succeed or not can be enough to get you stuck. Emotionally you may not be ready to deal with it even if you forcefully take action.

I am not really up for forcing something that does not come smoothly. Some people see it as a way to breakthrough fears and setbacks and i can see the advantages to it; but i find it much easier and healthier to take action when feeling a strong urge to take action as it will feel more natural and your chances of succeeding in it will be higher. I guess the forcing part could be deemed negative self control; forcing yourself to do things that do not completely resonate with you on a deeper level. many do this and success level varies. While others wait and investigate if the actions they are considering is really worth all the hoopla.

 

[HunterO]

Totally MBTI unrelated.

I have both high and low self-control.
The main reason I'm looking into this topic is procrastination, which I'm currently experiencing as an issue.
The lack of self-control is often listed as the reason to procrastination. But hey.. I have really good self-control, right?

I can withstand most social pressure. I can withstand bodily urges. I rarely buy/eat unhealthy food. I never really do anything stupid, even when I'm drunk with a tiny few exceptions. A friend wanted to speech at my birthday about all the crazy shit I did the year before, but he simply said that he couldn't find anything after asking around at all my friends. It's even with stuff I like. For example the entire new House of Cards season just came out. I have a friend who I want to watch it with, but she doesn't have any time this week. She was surprised I was willing to wait a week. I don't really mind waiting to do something fun if I can do it later anyway.

However on the other side I have bad self-control when it comes to taking action. Procrastination is obviously the prime example. But it happens more. I can prevent myself from eating unhealthy food, but don't eat healthy food instead. Mostly I just end up eating nothing. I don't exercise enough (and really, then I'd loose even more weight).

Basically I can stop myself from doing anything, but I have a hard time starting something.
Nowhere I've been able to find information abouton these two sides of self-control. The only link I can imagine is inhibition and excitation in neurons. There could be a physiological explanation to this. But that might be a bit far-fetched. Maybe I can name the first self-control (that prevents you from doing something bad) negative self-control and the second (that enables you to do something good) positive self-control.

Anyone knows anything about this topic? Any sources?
What about yourself? Do you have high self-control? Or do you have something like I do, high negative self-control but low positive self-control?

What kinds of unhealthy foods do you eat?

Usually eating habits are inherited from your parents or people you spend the most time with. Eating habits are correlated by your social circle as well so not really about self control, it's about who you spend the most amount of time with.

Also have you tried oil pulling? I just started this recently and it's great! You take a teaspoon of coconut oil and swish it in your mouth everyday. The first time I tried this before bed while catching up on my emails I noticed that my nasal congestion disappeared completely. Also people who eat a spoonful everyday supposedly lose weight etc. I highly recommend!

 

[Erlian]

What kinds of unhealthy foods do you eat?

Usually eating habits are inherited from your parents or people you spend the most time with. Eating habits are correlated by your social circle as well so not really about self control, it's about who you spend the most amount of time with.

Could be. My mom is about eating healthy. I don't really eat much really unhealthy food. I don't touch fastfood very often (I dislike everything about it, except the speed at which you get it) and I don't like too oily/fat food. The things I eat that most would consider unhealthy is probably too much calories and/or fat, but really I should put on some weight, so I don't consider them unhealthy. I mostly toss plenty of olive oil in whatever I fry for dinner (potatoes, meat, fish) and do plenty of non-light margarine on my bread. I might eat too much salt. But then again I drink a lot every day.
The most unhealthy is 'not eating' though.

Also have you tried oil pulling? I just started this recently and it's great! You take a teaspoon of coconut oil and swish it in your mouth everyday. The first time I tried this before bed while catching up on my emails I noticed that my nasal congestion disappeared completely. Also people who eat a spoonful everyday supposedly lose weight etc. I highly recommend!

Never heard of that and it doesn't sound pleasant. Would it work with olive oil?
Adding another type of oil to my assortiment requires money, effort and storage space (student room).
See my point of being able to refrain from eating unhealthy, but not motivated enough to eat extra healthy (the oil).

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Totally MBTI unrelated.

I have both high and low self-control.
The main reason I'm looking into this topic is procrastination, which I'm currently experiencing as an issue.
The lack of self-control is often listed as the reason to procrastination. But hey.. I have really good self-control, right?

I can withstand most social pressure. I can withstand bodily urges. I rarely buy/eat unhealthy food. I never really do anything stupid, even when I'm drunk with a tiny few exceptions. A friend wanted to speech at my birthday about all the crazy shit I did the year before, but he simply said that he couldn't find anything after asking around at all my friends. It's even with stuff I like. For example the entire new House of Cards season just came out. I have a friend who I want to watch it with, but she doesn't have any time this week. She was surprised I was willing to wait a week. I don't really mind waiting to do something fun if I can do it later anyway.

However on the other side I have bad self-control when it comes to taking action. Procrastination is obviously the prime example. But it happens more. I can prevent myself from eating unhealthy food, but don't eat healthy food instead. Mostly I just end up eating nothing. I don't exercise enough (and really, then I'd loose even more weight).

Basically I can stop myself from doing anything, but I have a hard time starting something.
Nowhere I've been able to find information abouton these two sides of self-control. The only link I can imagine is inhibition and excitation in neurons. There could be a physiological explanation to this. But that might be a bit far-fetched. Maybe I can name the first self-control (that prevents you from doing something bad) negative self-control and the second (that enables you to do something good) positive self-control.

Anyone knows anything about this topic? Any sources?
What about yourself? Do you have high self-control? Or do you have something like I do, high negative self-control but low positive self-control?

I think you could look up the virtues:
Temperance (holding back)
Fortitude (getting on with it).


*Just visiting briefly, hardly use computers now*.

 

[HunterO]

Could be. My mom is about eating healthy. I don't really eat much really unhealthy food. I don't touch fastfood very often (I dislike everything about it, except the speed at which you get it) and I don't like too oily/fat food. The things I eat that most would consider unhealthy is probably too much calories and/or fat, but really I should put on some weight, so I don't consider them unhealthy. I mostly toss plenty of olive oil in whatever I fry for dinner (potatoes, meat, fish) and do plenty of non-light margarine on my bread. I might eat too much salt. But then again I drink a lot every day.
The most unhealthy is 'not eating' though.


Never heard of that and it doesn't sound pleasant. Would it work with olive oil?
Adding another type of oil to my assortiment requires money, effort and storage space (student room).
See my point of being able to refrain from eating unhealthy, but not motivated enough to eat extra healthy (the oil).

I suppose it could- although I prefer coconut oil. I'm still amazed that I no longer have nasal congestion! It's as if all of my allergies disappeared.
You swish it in your mouth for 20 min then spit it out. Also taking a teaspoon just on its own and eating it.

If you don't eat enough, maybe there's something wrong with your libido. You could be low on zinc or something. Low zinc people tend to be very skinny, verging on anorexia.

 

[grt$5vb]

Okay, Ni, you need to get out of your head and eat some shit.

Take it a step at a time, the thesis-type impossible looming tasks, and break it down into small chunks. Reward yourself after working for a few hours. Would an accountability partner work to motivate you?

 

[Erlian]

If you don't eat enough, maybe there's something wrong with your libido. You could be low on zinc or something. Low zinc people tend to be very skinny, verging on anorexia.

It comes in phases that last a few months mostly. Sometimes I'm just full before finishing one portion. Currently I can eat 3. It's more that I eat only two or three times a day. I've clearly gotten a bit more weight in the past month. But I still don't exercise (haven't for half a year really). Maybe I should as that gets the appetite going.

In those phases I always just touch feeling too fat and then go to feeling to skinny. It goes really slowly though. It takes 3 to 6 months for one 'phase'. The weight difference is probably somewhere between 5 or 8 kilos (11 or 18 lbs)
Healthy would be between a BMI of 18.5 and 25. Not sure what my exact weight is, but I'm if I'd guess my weight it gives me a BMI of 20.8 (72 kg, 186 cm / 160 lbs, 6'1"). Quite perfect actually. I think I feel skinny because of lack of muscles. Haha I could go up to almost 85kg / 190 lbs and still be healthy. Well, according to BMI, which is just a simple tool to give an indication obviously.

But all this food stuff was just an example about self-control and willpower stuff. Much like the temperance and fortitude that Flavus mentioned.

 

[HunterO]

It comes in phases that last a few months mostly. Sometimes I'm just full before finishing one portion. Currently I can eat 3. It's more that I eat only two or three times a day. I've clearly gotten a bit more weight in the past month. But I still don't exercise (haven't for half a year really). Maybe I should as that gets the appetite going.

In those phases I always just touch feeling too fat and then go to feeling to skinny. It goes really slowly though. It takes 3 to 6 months for one 'phase'. The weight difference is probably somewhere between 5 or 8 kilos (11 or 18 lbs)
Healthy would be between a BMI of 18.5 and 25. Not sure what my exact weight is, but I'm if I'd guess my weight it gives me a BMI of 20.8 (72 kg, 186 cm / 160 lbs, 6'1"). Quite perfect actually. I think I feel skinny because of lack of muscles. Haha I could go up to almost 85kg / 190 lbs and still be healthy. Well, according to BMI, which is just a simple tool to give an indication obviously.

But all this food stuff was just an example about self-control and willpower stuff. Much like the temperance and fortitude that Flavus mentioned.

Have you tried arginine powder or a pre workout powder before you life weights? Otherwise maybe you have some sort of yeast issue. Lots of people, esp men have yeast infections which gives them low energy...although that causes weight gain Mad hunger cravings, and not excessive anorexia. Perhaps you have parasites? I read in parts of the world ppl were giving the
Selves parasites to lose weight....

 

[Erlian]

Have you tried arginine powder or a pre workout powder before you life weights? Otherwise maybe you have some sort of yeast issue. Lots of people, esp men have yeast infections which gives them low energy...although that causes weight gain Mad hunger cravings, and not excessive anorexia. Perhaps you have parasites? I read in parts of the world ppl were giving the
Selves parasites to lose weight....

I appreciate the help, but this all seems very far-fetched. I've never heard of such powders.
I sometimes have low energy, but that's logically related to either not eating enough or eating too much in once (digestive system takes up all energy). I have neither excessive weight, hunger cravings or even the slightest of anorexia. I'm quite healthy, but I could do with some exercising.