This Is Our World

[Wyote]

"For all I know, you all may be right about the entire universe. I've only observed your way of dealing with things through my own window. I'm trying to come to your house and see it for what it is on the inside, and then being more educated to make a call on things...and I might possibly steal some of your furniture to put back in my house!"

~Duty


So, for all of the INFJs who want to have a go at this; Describe what it's like and what to do to help others see things the way we do. For everyone else, speak up and ask questions.

There are good quotes pertaining to this topic scattered all around the forum, so perhaps grabbing some of those and consolidating them here would be beneficial as well.

 

[Altruistic Muse]

Wow, where do you even start on this? I guess I'd start with how I try to explain myself to my INTP. Firstly, every decision I make is based on some kind of value system, which has often been acquired over time, sometimes without me even noticing it. So I often have vehement ideas on things that appear to come out of nowhere. Just like the things that excite me or the things that upset me. They are all just there within me. I can be quite black and white. Immorality such as infidelity causes me to recoil and makes me angry. I guess I just have very high expectations of myself and everyone else. I don't see why people can't do their best to be helpful, thoughtful and to improve themselves. If everyone thought that we could improve then that could actually happen, I get sick of people saying "but that's not how the world works".... why? I don't understand why people can't strive to be good for once. I base most of my actions on how they will affect other people. People are the most important things to INFJs. To be continues lol, lot's of stuff to put here!

 

[Stephanie]

"Hmm, maybe I'm misjudging then. See, I've long decided I want to try it you guys' way, but I wouldn't know how to do that. I've gotten a suggestion that involves getting high and I am not willing to get high for this (plus, it doesn't sound like a fair test, as my faculties would just be impaired). Getting high is just way too far out of my comfort zone.

I'm trying to find a way to enter your house here...to see the paradigm you all have from the inside instead of just looking at it through my window...through my lens. Any suggestions that don't involve substance abuse? "
-Duty

I've been thinking about this bit for a while now, and I'm honestly not sure it's possible. I'm truly sorry. I for one often long for others to be able to see things from "inside my house." I thought, maybe, just maybe, if you could find a willing INFJ in person you could do a sort of "job shadowing" but more of a "life shadowing." Just following them around all day and getting to know how they tick so to speak. Asking them relentlessly what they are thinking. *shrug* good luck with that though, I don't know if I could personally handle having someone like that with me. I don't know if you could handle it either, or if you could keep your mind open enough to really see the inner workings. I completely agree that INFJs don't often understand themselves, so how can we expect anyone else to understand? How can you expect to understand.

A lot of times though, I admit, I just wish people would ask me what I'm thinking, to grant me permission to share my thoughts so I wouldn't have to try to figure out whether they wanted me to, or not, or whether it's appropriate to say something at a certain time or not. But I couldn't honestly say if I would say or not.

I hope this makes sense. These are just my gentle musings, please don't take anything too seriously or personally! I just thought I'd share.

 

[Nickyrd2]

I have a hard time getting others to see things the way I do. I'll be listening in on this thread =D

 

[Wyote]

True it is what INFJs seem to struggle communicating the most. That is the very reason I created this thread. I am even struggling to find an appropriate way in which to express the inner workings of myself. I feel like bringing in pictures and songs and the whole lot but... I think I would be merely speaking with fellow INFJs in doing so.


I thought this was somewhat interesting.

 

[arbygil]

I don't know if this question is difficult because it forces us to use a cognitive process we're not used to, or if it's because we're not really good at analyzing our actions over ourselves. Maybe it's because we intuit the question first - it's a feeling deep inside - and knowing why isn't something we can put into words. It just happens. When I communicate with someone I'm immediately taking in their words and filtering what I hear. It's never just hearing someone talk. And even before they start talking I'm already analyzing them - not on purpose; it's just how I function.

I really don't know how to turn it off or how to stop it and I've never taken the time to stop myself while it's happening. If I could stop myself (which I don't see as probable) I might have the opportunity to explain myself...but then I wouldn't be me.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I see the world from some sort of detached viewpoint. I often times don't really feel like I'm an active part of the world around me.
At the same time, though, I bridge connections that other people can't or don't really seem to see, and I do this quickly and subconsciously. I can "see" the world through other peoples' eyes...I always could do this, and relating to people on both an objective and closely personal subjective way helped me understand what they felt and what they need from a rather young age. It's gotten to the point where I can "feel" a person's emotions, mental state, and even, when I'm first meeting someone, the way their personality plays out. It's almost always accurate.

However, as I said, I don't often feel as if I'm an "active" part of the world around me. Sometimes it almost gets to be a matrix-like feeling -- as if people are somehow "different" and I can't really react to the world in the same way they can because how I think and connect is all within me. It's hard to explain -- I can explain how my systems work and why I've come to a conclusion, but I wouldn't be able to explain how I think.

I wrote this in the "INFJs and feelings of being alone...[etc]" thread a while back, and it might kind of show something of how it feels:

I...feel something of the sort. I don't know if I would call it lost-ness; it's more of like a lack of sense of self for me. I know what I feel, what I want, how I see the world....and yet I don't. For everything I come to understand in myself, I lose that understanding, then regain it, but every single time it seems to be somewhat detached, somewhat surreal; less tangible than what others say they think or feel, in a way.
I think some of my S friends help draw me out of myself so I don't notice it as often. But when I'm in myself (that's the only way I know how to describe it; there's a distinct difference from when I'm viewing the outside world, when I'm caught inside my own mind, and when I'm in my mind but registering the outside world, kind of in the way of looking through glass like oceanic99 said) it's as if nothing's quite as solid as it should be. It's fine when I'm only lost in myself for brief periods, but if I am in myself for extended periods or too frequently, I begin to lose what I have navigated and what I have not, or what I am aware of, am fleetingly aware of, or was never aware of at all.
It's the strangest thing, that; there are times when the "real" world seems something less than real. There were times when I'd have to really think to grasp what goes on in the "real" world because the place in my head seems so much more solid, but less tangible and more dynamic, if that makes sense. There are times when I notice that I don't really remember the real world, or it's very dim, even if it was recent; I know it's not my memory specifically, but rather there was nothing for my mind to register, since I never really noticed anything in the first place.

How do you really describe it? I've become used to it myself, but once I start to think about what it is again, I'm mystified. I understand myself better than most; I am more confused about myself than most. But how do you explain that to someone who doesn't know? I've tried to get friends to read about INFJs to kind of have a glimpse at this dilemma, but I don't think they really get it; I don't think I seem that complicated on the outside.

I don't know. Lost-ness is probably the only way to really describe it.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

My thoughts and understanding are complex and finely woven inside my mind, but become torn and ragged if I try to take them outside in conversation. (Ni)

My feelings are kind and considerate on the outside, but to get them into my heart they have to crack and shred my sternum, becoming dark and painful inside. (Fe)

I am forgiving with others and think they are all on the way to heaven, but I condemn myself to hell. (Ti)

When talking to you on the phone, I can describe your surroundings - people, machinery, size of the room, whether there are soft or hard furnishings, etc. without thinking about it, from the sounds coming across the line; but when I am thinking about things, I am likely to run into the coffee table when walking across my own lounge room. (Se - 4th place).

 

[Wyote]

when I am thinking about things, I am likely to run into the coffee table when walking across my own lounge room. (Se - 4th place).

Yea, I'll second that. Also I don't mean to single you out, but the way you wrote that post - the descriptors you used and so forth are very similar to my own way of expression. My feelings and expressions are almost metaphorical... but very concrete at the same time.

 

[AUM]

I suck at explaining myself. I know what I want to say but it never makes it to my mouth because by the time it gets there other information has substituted what was relevant to the conversation. It's like if my mind went 1000mph but my mouth only 5, in my opinion they don't get along that well. I remembered that I had to do a project for my management class in school and I got a 100 on my essay but my presentation got only a 80 because I couldn't explain to my peers what my essay was about. That's when I learned that note cards where my best friend.

 

[Onyrica]

I'm good with non-feeling communication. When it's about exposing a theoretical fact or a project, I choke a little bit at the sudden attention I get for being in the spotlight, but soon enough I get rambling on my ideas.

When it comes to matters that involve feelings, though, I really do choke, hack and die.

The problem, I think, is that we're so aware of our feelings - unlike most people, who usually confuse a feeling with another - that we realize the extent of them and, when trying to put them in words, there's just not enough space to fit them all. Anything you say is incomplete and innacurate, and everything you say might just fall in deaf ears because, to the world, you're just over-emotional and in need of a hug.

So one thing about dealing with an INFJ, is showing patience and understanding. Not comprehension of what they say, maybe, but being open and not shutting down on them once you simply do not understand one point of the many they might be trying to make.

Another thing, especially in my case, is to keep a mind open to fairness and relativeness. I don't know if it's my Ni or J, or simply my personality, but in my subconscious urge to analize people, I'll instantly think anyone's a douche if they ditch someone else's opinion without holding relativity as an option.

As an INFJ, I believe I'm the bearer of many "truths". However, I do try to keep my mind open, because I know I'm not a god and that with my 21/22 years of life, and despite any intuition I have, I'm nowhere near knowing it all. When I don't manage this, I'm about as much of a twat as anyone else.

Because in my self-awareness I'm this judgmental about myself, when it comes to others I'll be very critical of someone not considering someone's opinion - as silly as it might be - because it's not presented in the light of their own beliefs. Very critical of someone who see's only black, white and no shades of grey in between, basically.

So, in all: patience and open-mindedness towards relativity. Mostly because those attitudes are the ones that Feeling mostly rely on, in my opinion, which is what makes us different from ST/NT's~

 

[WhiteWolf]

I'm good with non-feeling communication. When it's about exposing a theoretical fact or a project, I choke a little bit at the sudden attention I get for being in the spotlight, but soon enough I get rambling on my ideas.

When it comes to matters that involve feelings, though, I really do choke, hack and die.

The problem, I think, is that we're so aware of our feelings - unlike most people, who usually confuse a feeling with another - that we realize the extent of them and, when trying to put them in words, there's just not enough space to fit them all. Anything you say is incomplete and innacurate, and everything you say might just fall in deaf ears because, to the world, you're just over-emotional and in need of a hug.

So one thing about dealing with an INFJ, is showing patience and understanding. Not comprehension of what they say, maybe, but being open and not shutting down on them once you simply do not understand one point of the many they might be trying to make.

Another thing, especially in my case, is to keep a mind open to fairness and relativeness. I don't know if it's my Ni or J, or simply my personality, but in my subconscious urge to analize people, I'll instantly think anyone's a douche if they ditch someone else's opinion without holding relativity as an option.

As an INFJ, I believe I'm the bearer of many "truths". However, I do try to keep my mind open, because I know I'm not a god and that with my 21/22 years of life, and despite any intuition I have, I'm nowhere near knowing it all. When I don't manage this, I'm about as much of a twat as anyone else.

Because in my self-awareness I'm this judgmental about myself, when it comes to others I'll be very critical of someone not considering someone's opinion - as silly as it might be - because it's not presented in the light of their own beliefs. Very critical of someone who see's only black, white and no shades of grey in between, basically.

So, in all: patience and open-mindedness towards relativity. Mostly because those attitudes are the ones that Feeling mostly rely on, in my opinion, which is what makes us different from ST/NT's~

This.

 

[sassafras]

; Describe what it's like and what to do to help others see things the way we do. For everyone else, speak up and ask questions.

One of the best things about INFJs is that we're able to tap into what the other person is sensing or feeling. We also have an uncanny ability to know what makes others tick once we're given to opportunity to observe and get to know them.

Someone once suggested that this puts us at a manipulative advantage. And I think it does, if only most INFJ's wouldn't balk at the idea. But rather than calling it manipulation (that word has very negative connotations, with the promise of nefarious purposes, which I think most INFJs aren't after) I rather think of it as 'guidance.'

You tap into how this person thinks, how they feel, and then allow the chameleon quality of the INFJ personality to adjust your attitude and your wordchoices to present the information in a language they understand.

The importance is just patience, practise and compassion for the other person. The quiet confidence of our personality, the assurance and nonthreatening softness to the way we speak and present ourselves is more likely to get the other person to see things from our point of views than anybody who threatens or tries to enforce theirs with arrogance and bullheadedness.

 

[Milon]

You tap into how this person thinks, how they feel, and then allow the chameleon quality of the INFJ personality to adjust your attitude and your wordchoices to present the information in a language they understand.

This. All the time.

 

[Jana]

Just reading what you wrote make me feel lighter and better
So drinks (coffee, tea, juice, whatever..) for all here, I have nothing to explain to you, you already know that