The Worth of a Person.

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Shai Gar

have to make this quick, will update later, there's a thunderstorm on, and it's brutal. goddamn wet started.

The worth of a person is always precisely what they think it is, whether they base it on how others view them or how they view themselves or some mix.

If someone views them as pathetic and they base their worth off that, then they ARE pathetic, or if they base it off what another thinks who thinks they're perfect, then they're perfect. If they base it on themselves and consider themselves fantastic, then they are.

it's how they think deep down though, not the facade they face to the world

crapfuck my ncis episode still has another 24 minutes to go :( crapfuck. will dl it tomorrow when i wake up.
 
Shai Gar said:
it's how they think deep down though, not the facade they face to the world

crapfuck my ncis episode still has another 24 minutes to go :( crapfuck. will dl it tomorrow when i wake up.
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This may come across as sarcastic, but it's not. Aren't you referring to the subconscious?
 
I think the self esteem itself is a person's worth or until the person permits so.On my own opinion,i think no one is able to judge a person's worth.
 
I think measuring the "worth" of other people is as difficult - and will result in as many varying impressions - as measuring the "worth" of oneself.

I took this statement literally:
it's how they think deep down though, not the facade they face to the world
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The facade people choose to face the world with is often a deliberate act, but whether it is to protect what they feel is their own worth or to distort it must vary, I think, from person to person. I think it would be difficult to determine if the facade covers the subconscious or if it's a very conscious decision to disguise who they are underneath.

For example...

Frail, humble, soft spoken... is that an accurate facade of weakness?
ghandi.jpg


Big, strong, outspoken and quick to take action... is that an accurate facade of leadership?
amin_dada_lg.jpg


Would everyone in the world evaluate the worth of either of these examples the same way? Would they evaluate their own worth using the same criteria?
 
To easy shai. Nothing is so simple. When you measure a man you make sure you take into account all that he's been through, and all that he's done. You take into account why he is loved, who he loves, why he loves, why he is loved, by who. Who he hates, why he hates them.

Even with all of that you've barely estimated half of his worth. Even with all that you don't know what he'll become one day. You don't know who he'll indirectly effect with a kind word or an offhand comment. No man can accurately, truly measure another man.
 
About eight bucks an hour. Slightly less for women.
 
Who are the two pictures zencat? Gandhi and some asshole dictator? A very cool way to get your point across. Very cool indeed.(that is if the dictator dude is an asshole!)..
 
The Hitler of Africa is quite an asshole.
 
Shai Gar said:
The worth of a person is always precisely what they think it is, whether they base it on how others view them or how they view themselves or some mix.

If someone views them as pathetic and they base their worth off that, then they ARE pathetic, or if they base it off what another thinks who thinks they're perfect, then they're perfect. If they base it on themselves and consider themselves fantastic, then they are.

it's how they think deep down though, not the facade they face to the world.
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I have to say I disagree.

Personally, I feel that the worth of a person is. It just is. And it IS for every single person, regardless of whether others think highly or poorly of them, and whether they (for whatever reason) think highly or poorly of themselves. Their worth remains their worth, and it will always be. Our opinions about what a person may be worth to our society, system, group, us, (etc.) are our opinions regarding whether or not that person does or is whatever we want them to be or do. But that's just us trying to apply our expectations to other people. I think people build an illusion around worth - they see it as having to exist for something. But like I said, I think worth just is. Within our societies/cultures, the more someone fulfills our expectations, the more worthy they may seem. The more someone disappoints our expectations, the less worthy they may seem. Some people might say criminals are worthless, or people with disabilities who need others to care for them - sometimes 100% - are considered worthless by some. Whereas a doctor, professional, someone we're emotionally close with - we see more value in that person, only because we approve of some aspect of their life enough or they are of some benefit to us. So we assume that we're right and use our opinions to judge someone, sometimes very harshly. Sometimes, unfortunately, people use the opinions others have of them and negatively reinforce them, believing the damaging illusions that may have been built around them.

Perceptions of worth, and worth itself are two separate things.

It's late and I'm tired but hopefully that makes sense.
 
Silently Honest said:
To easy shai. Nothing is so simple. When you measure a man you make sure you take into account all that he's been through, and all that he's done. You take into account why he is loved, who he loves, why he loves, why he is loved, by who. Who he hates, why he hates them.

Even with all of that you've barely estimated half of his worth. Even with all that you don't know what he'll become one day. You don't know who he'll indirectly effect with a kind word or an offhand comment. No man can accurately, truly measure another man.
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Or woman :)

I agree.
 
I basically agree, if you believe you are pathetic than that is what you’ll become, if you believe you are successful than you will move towards that (perfection is unobtainable imo as everyone has their own form of insecurities, I would suggest anyone with that perception of themself is deluded). This is why it can be so difficult for people to pull themselves out of depression, their self worth is low, they believe all the negative things about themselves and this perpetuates more of the same.

The key is; what they believe deep down not what they show. It's not about how others perceive us but about who we truly are and that will be reflected outwardly in a form of confidence, or lack thereof - This does not make them a good or bad person, actions will determine that. The hard part is holding on to the positive self images in a way that you truly believe them.

What are we besides our thoughts and beliefs?



The Man Who Thinks He Can - Walter D. Wintle

If you think you're beaten, you are;
If you think you dare not, you don't;
If you'd like to win, but think, you can't
It's almost a cinch you won't.

If you think you will lose, you're lost;
For out in the world we find,
Success begins with a fellow's will,
It's all in the state of mind.

If you think you're outclassed, you are;
You've got to think high to rise.
You've got to hustle before
You can ever win a prize.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man,
But sooner or later the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.
 
ZenCat said:
I think measuring the "worth" of other people is as difficult - and will result in as many varying impressions - as measuring the "worth" of oneself.
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I believe the point is that it's not about judging others but about your own self worth. Shai will have to correct me if I'm wrong there.

Frail, humble, soft spoken... is that an accurate facade of weakness?
ghandi.jpg


Big, strong, outspoken and quick to take action... is that an accurate facade of leadership?
amin_dada_lg.jpg


Would everyone in the world evaluate the worth of either of these examples the same way? Would they evaluate their own worth using the same criteria?
Click to expand...

Using those examples I would say Ghandi spoke of humility, peace and forgiveness. I am sure in his inner image that is how he saw himself.

Likewise I'm sure Idi Amin believed he was powerful, influential and successful. That is what he became.

Value judgements can say Ghandi's actions were for the betterment of those around him and generally positive while Idi Amin was a tyrant who caused genocide but this doesn't change that they became and projected what they believed they were inside.

(Also refer my previous post about those with delusions - Idi Amin may be a contender there)
 
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say you had two people - one with amazing self-confidence, and one with no self-esteem at all. there's a catastrophe and you can only save one of them. is one life worth more than the other?
 
one with the self confidence. i wouldn't bother saving someone who didn't think enough of themselves to be saved.
 
so are you saying that a person's worth as a human being is based on how much they believe in themselves?

how about those who are disabled and don't possess those mental abilities? (vegetables, for the lack of a better word).
 
ohmermaid said:
say you had two people - one with amazing self-confidence, and one with no self-esteem at all. there's a catastrophe and you can only save one of them. is one life worth more than the other?
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I'd say it matters very little to me if someone else has low or high self esteem however I'm always going to be more drawn to connect with someone who has a positive opinion on themself. Simply put; I like being around positive people, I do not enjoy spending time around the negative.

Therefore in terms of friendship the person with high self confidence will prolly mean more to me and I'd chose accordingly based on my loyalties. If they were strangers I'd have no way of knowing and it would not have an impact. I do not value them according to the worth they give themselves but as that effects how they project themselves outwardly it has an impact on how I view them.
 
fair enough :) i'd have to say that i'd do the same - before going back and trying to save the other and probably killing myself in the process -_-
 
I think there would have to be concessions made for age.

If you have a child raised in a negative-nurture environment, being told they're worthless, will never amount to anything, repressing their better instincts, creativity, etc. and they reach an age where they can go out on their own, but they've never had anyone look inside to see their potential and encouraging them to be their own person, or take risks, or overcome obstacles then I think offering encouragement, support, positive-nurturing could have the effect of sparking something rejuvanative in them, giving them an opportunity to explore their self "worth" in a way they hadn't been offered before.

I.e. young person with low self-esteem is not the "lost cause" an older, embittered person might be.
 
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