The Terrifying Trump | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

The Terrifying Trump

This thread is getting intense.
I'm pleased to read all the opinions and details as there is information here I hadn't had prior.

Disscussion & debate carry well here...each party respectful of the others view. It would be nice if this type of debate would serve our politicians.

Perhaps they need more we and a little less me when jockying for office.
 
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It’s a conflict of interest.
We already have horror stories of Judges getting kick-backs from such private institutions in return for longer sentences.
Just google it.

Also, many don’t know...but most of those private for-profit prisons have contracts with their respected states that basically say - if you don’t keep X amount of people in our prison, then you have to pay a fine for each empty bed - thus incentivizing imprisonment.

And yes, we spend more money on prisons than education...but we also shouldn’t overlook we also have more people imprisoned in the US than any other country in the world...more than Russia, more than China, more than N. Korea.
Land of the free indeed.

Some people might wonder, gee Brightmoon, you are Canadian and seem really preoccupied with US politics and things going in a county that you don't even live in.

Well bad ideas are bad ideas, and when the Tories were in power they wanted to copy all the failed justice policies of the Republicans, like mandatory minimum sentences for example. They also considered private prisons. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-private-firms-for-prisons-as-budgets-fall, As of mid-2012, private prison companies continued to lobby the government for contract business

To date there have two private detention facilities in Canada to date, and both reverted to government control.

My concern is that when the Tories get power they are always looking to Republicans for ideas, so this is the source of my concerns.
 
Some people might wonder, gee Brightmoon, you are Canadian and seem really preoccupied with US politics and things going in a county that you don't even live in.

Well bad ideas are bad ideas, and when the Tories were in power they wanted to copy all the failed justice policies of the Republicans, like mandatory minimum sentences for example. They also considered private prisons. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-private-firms-for-prisons-as-budgets-fall, As of mid-2012, private prison companies continued to lobby the government for contract business

To date there have two private detention facilities in Canada to date, and both reverted to government control.

My concern is that when the Tories get power they are always looking to Republicans for ideas, so this is the source of my concerns.

The Republicans have no new ideas about how to fix our economy or any of the other social issue that we face.
The idea of “conservatism” within the party has taken on a whole new depth of ineptitude.
For them, the status quo is good and it works....because they are rich and white.
That’s the gist of it.
 
You guys are running down Trump for his words, and going to vote for a woman that has already done what she has done. I warned when the walk across northern Africa was about to take place. I'm warning again.

Rich and white?

Glad I'm not in politics.

Someone is grabbing debate like Satya used to, but Satya was better.
 
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You guys are running down Trump for his words, and going to vote for a woman that has already done what she has done. I warned when the walk across northern Africa was about to take place. I'm warning again.

Rich and white?

Glad I'm not in politics.

Someone is grabbing debate like Satya used to, but Satya was better.

I’m not saying Hillary is going to be a good President.
I’m sure while Congress is controlled by the GOP they will obstruct her at every turn like they did Obama to try and make her look like a lame duck.
I’m saying that Trump is a wager I’m not willing to put money on.
Nor do I think we should be wagering the fate of our nation and our children to his egomaniacal lunacy.

You can compare me to anyone you want but I’m not that person...in fact, you know very little about me, I would avoid attacking me personally -
I will bite you back.
Pop your bubble...come back to reality.
 
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@just me

Do you deny that white privilege exists in these United States?
Because statistics are not on your side there pal.

Edit: Also, once again it is very rude to answer a post without quoting someone or putting their name up so they can answer you back.
You consistently do it, it’s a cheap way to discount the person you are talking to or debating with.
Just fyi.
 
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You can compare me to anyone you want but I’m not that person...in fact, you know very little about me, I would avoid attacking me personally -
I will bite you back.
Pop your bubble...come back to reality.[/QUOT You are acting paranoid and you will not bite me back. I haven't bitten anyone. Satya had a way about him trying to turn a lot of things into debates. Wasn't biting at him either. He was pretty good at it. That was before your time here. Had you been here, you would have gotten it. Crack that whip. That's what I get from you all the time. I don't crack. All this over "Someone is grabbing debate like Satya used to, but Satya was better."
What I would like to say is simple: everything is not a debate. People talk. There are no rules talking. I'm not debating anything.

For them, the status quo is good and it works....because they are rich and white.
Say that in a national debate. The question mark was because I could not believe you said it. I compared you to Satya's debating skills, as he never would have.

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"In many respects ... ISIS is honouring President Obama -- he is the founder of ISIS."

This must be his most frighteningly asinine statement yet. The claim made here is comparable to the level of delusion that is typical of psychosis. A 9 year old would know better than to say something so monstrously silly.

Anyway... I can't bring myself to worry anymore. As soon as he told that lady to remove her child I stopped worrying. Americans will never vote for someone who loses their cool with a baby. Kissing babies is like the first rule of being elected President in America, it's too deeply embedded in American ideology for people to ignore such total incompetence in it. It will take an absolute miracle for his campaign to recover now.
 
@invisible I think he keeps saying/doing more offensive things to detract attention from the previously insane and offensive shit he's said or done. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot to cure a headache. He really piles it on, it's overwhelming. I almost can't even keep up with the seemingly infinite reasons why this man has no business even running. I find myself growing apathetic because the bullshit just never stops. I don't think I can be shocked anymore. If Trump came out and said he was a member of ISIS, I wouldn't be shocked. If Trump unzipped his man suit and revealed he is Hillary Clinton and that the other Hillary Clinton is a robot, I wouldn't be surprised. It's all just so bizarre and unreal.
 
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@invisible I think he keeps saying/doing more offensive things to detract attention from the previously insane and offensive shit he's said or done. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot to cure a painful headache. He really piles it on, it's overwhelming. I almost can't even keep up with the seemingly infinite reasons why this man has no business even running. I find myself growing apathetic because the bullshit just never stops. I don't think I can be shocked anymore. If Trump came out and said he was a member of ISIS, I wouldn't be shocked. If Trump unzipped his man suit and revealed he is Hillary Clinton and that the other Hillary Clinton is a robot, I wouldn't be surprised. It's all just so bizarre and unreal.

Laughing out loud. Grin.
 
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@just me

I remember Satya.
As for the rest of what you wrote it has little to do with what this thread is about and is more your poorly shrouded dislike of me on a personal level.
Stick to the facts...which I have seen very little of produced by you.
It seems when the facts overwhelm you resort to a vague Bible verse, turn your nose up at that person, then put them on ignore when they really get under your skin.
Check yourself Mr. I’m more experienced therefore more wise.
You don’t know what kind of shit I’ve seen and done in my life and I don’t know about yours.
So again...stick to the facts, rebut them...but don’t compare me to someone else entirely then discount my opinion.
Man of God indeed.
I bet Trump will fly right on through the eye of that needle.
Pride, Greed, Envy and Slothfulness are all deadly sins.
Trump is the epitome of each.
Since when did being poor in America become a failing of the person born into a system with no upward mobility?
Not to mention the garbage that flies out of his mouth is certainly not something I want my children to hear...his racist, misogynist, empty words and promises...he has no plan...his advisors are Wall St. vultures.
Vote for the angry white (orange) guy (with tiny hands)...I’m sure it will all be super awesome...he is best pals with Putin, and we all know how calm and collected he is under pressure...he never says anything before carefully thinking it through.
Vote!
 
Now he calls for the death penalty for Bill and Hillary.
Moronic.

Here’s the man that wanted the deluxe copy of Obama’s birth certificate but still has yet to produce his tax returns.
Hmmmm?
Not a hypocrite at all.
 
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You guys are running down Trump for his words, and going to vote for a woman that has already done what she has done. I warned when the walk across northern Africa was about to take place. I'm warning again.

Rich and white?

Glad I'm not in politics.

Someone is grabbing debate like Satya used to, but Satya was better.

I’m not saying Hillary is going to be a good President.
I’m sure while Congress is controlled by the GOP they will obstruct her at every turn like they did Obama to try and make her look like a lame duck.
I’m saying that Trump is a wager I’m not willing to put money on.
Nor do I think we should be wagering the fate of our nation and our children to his egomaniacal lunacy.

You can compare me to anyone you want but I’m not that person...in fact, you know very little about me, I would avoid attacking me personally -
I will bite you back.
Pop your bubble...come back to reality.

Just me is bringing up a great point that scarecrow is ignoring. Trump is totally fucked in what he says, yes. But Hillary has already shown how fucked up she is by her past deeds. You don't want to bet on trump but the assumption is that you are all in with Hillary - of whom there is no doubt she will continue doing totally fucked up shit.
 
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Just me is bringing up a great point that scarecrow is ignoring. Trump is totally fucked in what he says, yes. But Hillary has already shown how fucked up she is by her past deeds. You don't want to bet on trump but the assumption is that you are all in with Hillary - of whom there is no doubt she will continue doing totally fucked up shit.

Ok now since when did the Presidency become an entry level position? How else can Trump be judged except by his words, he has no experience doing anything except running his businesses. All the "past deeds" pale by comparison to the deeds that happened when the Republicans were in office, so to say she would be worse than a Dubya for example is a stretch. She wouldn't be my first choice, but she's not off the wall crazy and she is competent. More problems have caused in politics by people who don't have a clue about what they are doing v. corrupt masterminds.
 
Ok now since when did the Presidency become an entry level position? How else can Trump be judged except by his words, he has no experience doing anything except running his businesses. All the "past deeds" pale by comparison to the deeds that happened when the Republicans were in office, so to say she would be worse than a Dubya for example is a stretch. She wouldn't be my first choice, but she's not off the wall crazy and she is competent. More problems have caused in politics by people who don't have a clue about what they are doing v. corrupt masterminds.

I guess it's been an entry level position since Ulysses S. Grant (so 1869) unless you are counting military service as experience. Does being a General count and running a business not count? Yeah running a business is mere child's play - I mean get real man. Why people think running a business is not an accomplishment is beyond me. Even to fail as well as Trump has requires some skills. That has always been an unconvincing point of attack in my opinion.I'm not really sure what you think is BFOQ, my assumption is that Trump will have a cabinet to make decisions and will continue doing reality tv.

I really don't care what deeds Republicans have done in the past. The point is that rationally you need to judge a person based on their past actions. I'm not saying she's worse than GW, that's your thing. But you are right she is competent, but not in a way that will benefit the U.S. It's a major case of cognitive dissonance to say "Trump might do something horrible (so I will take this essential stand up comedian at his word) and not vote for him. Then say Hillary has already done horrible things but I am sure she is done being bad now - lets vote for her.
 
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While you are at it, @the respond to Dan Rather's comment about Trump's Second Amendment comment as quoted below:

No trying-to-be objective and fair journalist, no citizen who cares about the country and its future can ignore what Donald Trump said today. When he suggested ...that "The Second Amendment People" can stop Hillary Clinton he crossed a line with dangerous potential. By any objective analysis, this is a new low and unprecedented in the history of American presidential politics. This is no longer about policy, civility, decency or even temperament. This is a direct threat of violence against a political rival. It is not just against the norms of American politics, it raises a serious question of whether it is against the law. If any other citizen had said this about a Presidential candidate, would the Secret Service be investigating?

Candidate Trump will undoubtably issue an explanation; some of his surrogates are already engaged in trying to gloss it over, but once the words are out there they cannot be taken back. That is what inciting violence means.

To anyone who still pretends this is a normal election of Republican against Democrat, history is watching. And I suspect its verdict will be harsh. Many have tried to do a side-shuffle and issue statements saying they strongly disagree with his rhetoric but still support the candidate. That is becoming woefully insufficient. The rhetoric is the candidate.

This cannot be treated as just another outrageous moment in the campaign. We will see whether major newscasts explain how grave and unprecedented this is and whether the headlines in tomorrow's newspapers do it justice. We will soon know whether anyone who has publicly supported Trump explains how they can continue to do.

We are a democratic republic governed by the rule of law. We are an honest, fair and decent people. In trying to come to terms with today's discouraging development the best I can do is to summon our greatest political poet Abraham Lincoln for perspective:

"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

Lincoln used these stirring words to end his First Inaugural Address. It was the eve of the Civil War and sadly his call for sanity, cohesion and peace was met with horrific violence that almost left our precious Union asunder. We cannot let that happen again.
 
I would not vote The Donald in for so much as Dog Catcher...and will continue to believe he has no business in the chair....
His thinking he is above our constitutional laws and hiding under the 1st Amendment is sickening.
His lack of displaying his self-respect and blatant disrespect for everyone is clear for all to see. He alone can not fix our government. How is he getting our country back, by giving it away to Russia? Has he a plan to sell us all out? I personally question his allegiance to America...let alone is very sanity! Any other American would have to stand quarter and answer for saying such outlandish things as he................

"Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular metaphor for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating unnecessary panic."

Though the image often represents illegal speech, "shouting fire in a crowded theater" refers to an outdated legal standard. At one point, the law criminalized such speech, which created a "clear and present danger." But since 1969, for speech to break the law, it can’t merely lead others to dangerous situations.

It must directly encourage others to commit specific criminal actions of their own.

The idea of falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater arose from the Supreme Court’s 1919 decision in the case Schenck v. United States. The Court ruled unanimously that the First Amendment, though it protects freedom of expression, does not protect dangerous speech. In the decision, Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote that no free speech safeguard would cover someone "falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic." The case in question did not involve fires, theaters or general panic. It instead concerned a man’s conviction for protesting the First World War’s military draft. The man, Charles Schenck, had printed 15,000 fliers that encouraged readers to resist conscription.

The Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918 criminalized such an offense, said prosecutors.
Schenck argued that the Constitution allowed his expression, but the Court disagreed. According to their ruling, Schnenck’s fliers created a clear and present danger — a clear and present danger to the government’s recruiting efforts. He hadn’t endangered life, as falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater would have, but he may as well have.

This "clear and present danger" standard stood for half a century.
Further rulings even expanded it, criminalizing additional speech.

But the Supreme Court then heard a case involving a new example of questionable speech, one that modern sensibilities might find more controversial than war protests.

Charles Brandenburg, a Ku Klux Klan leader, had spoken to group members at a televised Ohio rally. He’d used inflammatory language and racial slurs. He’d called for "revengeance," which Ohio prosecutors interpreted as a call to violence. This meant, said the prosecutors, that Charles Brandenburg had broken the law.

A statute, which the state had enacted the same year as the Schenck decision, criminalized the advocacy of crime or violence. The victims of any possible crime this speech incited would face even clearer danger than patrons fleeing a crowded theater.

Yet Brandenburg claimed the First Amendment protected his speech. His appeal reached the Supreme Court, and the Court agreed with him, in contrast with the earlier Schenck decision. Advocacy, even when it encourages law-breaking, helps the marketplace of ideas, ruled the Court. Had Brandenburg instructed followers to commit a specific crime, he’d have committed a number of offenses himself.

But the First Amendment protects speech that merely advocates general, indefinite illegal action.

With that ruling, the Court overturned the Schenck decision that had introduced "shouting fire in a crowded theater." No longer was "clear and present danger" a sufficient standard for criminalizing speech. To break the law, speech now had to incite "imminent lawless action."

So if a court can prove that you incite imminent lawlessness by falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, it can convict you. If you incite an unlawful riot, your speech is "brigaded" with illegal action, and you will have broken the law.

.........................................

Am I reading it wrong??? Please do point out where I may be misinterpreting or misunderstanding the writings??

"First Amendment - Religion and Expression.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
First Amendment - U.S. Constitution

Shall we petition our government with our grievances???...Just plain frustrated.
 
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