The problems of God

[just me]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION],
You said, "Clearly something happens to the psychology of people in war scenarios.I think what each voting member of the public needs to decide is whether they condone or condemn such acts and vote with their feet and with the ballot accordingly."

Do you really think anyone with any kind of human dignity would condone such acts in America, beheading and suicide bombing included? I had to work all day with a man that has no conscious, no morals, no dignity, and very little to live for but himself. His attitude makes me sick to my stomach. He would be one that would commit such a thing. People "over there" are no different: there are those like him and those like myself. Voting about such things would accomplish exactly what? I can watch this guy and he will try to steal something if he can when I turn my back. Do I continue to try and positively influence this guy or do I vote against his ways? I really don't understand why anyone would vote to do that.

People know my problems if I share them, though God may have a much more intricate understanding of them(in reference to the song).

 

[muir]

No i don't think decent US citizens would condone such acts

What i do think is that many US citizens are not fully aware of such goings on and are being told a certain version of events by the mainstream corporate media

So what i am saying is that there needs to be more awareness among voters in the west of the role their military is playing around the world so that they can exercise their democratic right to prevent such actions

The problem with war is that it allows atrocities to occur because it creates an environment in which it can occur. So the unpleasant character that you are talking about would, in a war situation, be given a gun and a free license to use it; the wrong kind of people are often empowered.

This is true in the financial sector where the dishonest will advance because they will willingly be complicit in the scams that are being carried out at the top level.

Private Bradley Manning was disgusted by some of the things he knew the US military was doing and reported this to his superior. His superior did nothing so Manning posted the information to wikileaks because he believed that it was in the public interest to know what their military was doing. And of course he is right; it is in the interest of a democratic public to know what their military is doing so that they can hold it accountable. But he is being punished by the power elite who do not like their actions being exposed to the public, because they know that the public are not as unfeeling as they are

The power elite who run the US are not interested in atrocities. they are everybit as cruel and viscious as the elites that have cheated their way to the top of other countries. The US media will portray the leaders of arab countries as insane but really when you look at how the US is behaving objectively how can you say that they are not insane?

The US power elite own the corporate media and they tell the viewer/consumer what they want the viewer/consumer to believe. For example if they want to invade Iraq to secure the massive reserves of oil underneath it all they have to do is tell the US public the lie that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11. Later on they can retract that lie....it doesn't matter if it damages the politicians image because the power elite will just choose another politician from their ranks to replace him who will bring fresh false promises and lies to the public. For example they might tell the public that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or that Iran is going to one day just randomly destroy Israel (even though that would spell the utter anhilation of Iran)

Its all lies to justify the actions of the power elite as they rape and pillage the earth through their corporations.

Suicide bombing is a pretty desperate act if you think about it. Imagine what sort of desperation or anger someone must be driven to to do that.

Cutting off heads is pretty horrific and is a psychological act of defiance to show the western countries what will happen to them if they don't leave their lands. It is a good example of the psychology that can be created by war.

In the case of the beheaders though they may suffer less psychological damage from their act because in their mind they are acting in defence of their country. However a US marine will return home after possibly doing horrible things and for what? When the dust settles....what have they really achieved except death, destruction, terror and the enrichment of the super rich owners of the corporations that form the military industrial complex?

We need to get our troops out of there. We're not justified in our acts, we're not making ourselves any safer and we're going to leave a lot of young lads laden with a lot of guilt

 

[just me]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION],
You followed your same line of thought all over again.

indecent acts> corporate media

need more awareness among voters to show what? atrocities the very few commit to show the role our military is playing? That is not our role, and anyone can see that.

person I was speaking about was fine in war: handled A&D with small arms in Germany...and maintenance

then you go to the financial sector> top level scams> dishonest will advance by complicity...all are not dishonest

Manning shared specific events, but certainly not what our military is doing

power elite> punishing him for showing their actions? Power elites as cruel and bad as other cheating elites telling lies
to rape, pillage, and plunder the earth thru their corporations> super rich owners of the corporations that form the military
complex

need troops out because of the few and the guilt? I just wanted to follow your train of thought once again. It almost always leads to the same issues you have. Ever notice that? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

 

[muir]

@muir ,
You followed your same line of thought all over again.

indecent acts> corporate media

need more awareness among voters to show what? atrocities the very few commit to show the role our military is playing? That is not our role, and anyone can see that.

person I was speaking about was fine in war: handled A&D with small arms in Germany...and maintenance

then you go to the financial sector> top level scams> dishonest will advance by complicity...all are not dishonest

Manning shared specific events, but certainly not what our military is doing

power elite> punishing him for showing their actions? Power elites as cruel and bad as other cheating elites telling lies
to rape, pillage, and plunder the earth thru their corporations> super rich owners of the corporations that form the military
complex

need troops out because of the few and the guilt? I just wanted to follow your train of thought once again. It almost always leads to the same issues you have. Ever notice that? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

These atrocities are not isolated incidents and they are just the ones we hear about, besides the whole war is an atrocity

You haven't actually overturned anything i've said

Here's the Keiser Report discussing the relationship between the military industrial complex and the media:

[video]http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-237-max-keiser/[/video]

 

[just me]

These atrocities are not isolated incidents and they are just the ones we hear about, besides the whole war is an atrocity

You haven't actually overturned anything i've said

Here's the Keiser Report discussing the relationship between the military industrial complex and the media:

[video]http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-237-max-keiser/[/video]

These are indeed isolated events, kind of like the girl that bungee jumped the other day.

World War II was an atrocity considering the whole war and the millions of Jews killed in gas chambers and the likes.....and the way most of the rest of the so-called civilized world allowed it to happen. War is a necessary evil; otherwise, Hitler and his sickened mind would have had his way with the world.

I do not seek to overturn what you said, and I get my information from experience and history. I do not place my eggs in a basket full of media. You can if you like.

 

[muir]

These are indeed isolated events, kind of like the girl that bungee jumped the other day.

World War II was an atrocity considering the whole war and the millions of Jews killed in gas chambers and the likes.....and the way most of the rest of the so-called civilized world allowed it to happen. War is a necessary evil; otherwise, Hitler and his sickened mind would have had his way with the world.

I do not seek to overturn what you said, and I get my information from experience and history. I do not place my eggs in a basket full of media. You can if you like.

Torture, imprisonment without trial, beatings, killings, bombings, maimings these are not isolated incidents where the US military is operating

Rape is a further problem. Here's an article showing the figures from SAPRO which show that a female in the US military in Iraq is more likely to be attacked by one of her own side than killed by an Iraqi: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/dec/09/rape-us-military

Concerning the second world war: what happened to many Jews was horrific beyond words but there were 60 million people killed in that conflict of which 6 million were jews.

The rest of the civilised world didn't just let it happen they were all involved in the war, which is why historians have called it a 'world war', because the world was involved.

Achmedinajad has been branded a 'holocaust denier' for asking questions about the holocaust, but he is not denying it happened therefore he is not a 'denier'

He has made the point that tens of millions of non jews died in the war as well but we don't hear much said about them. He says that a crime that occured in Germany is not the fault of the Palestineans and therefore they should not pay for it.

Now i have jewish ancestry and would not exist were it not for the jewish people. You are a christian zionist who seems intent on bringing on the end times which according to christian zionists would see the destruction of all jews in Israel who do not convert to christianity.

I am advocating peace between Israel and Iran and you seem to be banging the war drum.

What kind of happy scenario do you envisage from a war in the middle east that would see tens of thousands of missiles rain down on Israel from not only Iran but also Hezbollah and Hamas and could also threaten to bring china and Russia in as well due to their allegiances with Iran?

What good will it do except make members of the military industrial complex richer?

You seriously need to understand that many of the people who are creating the mainstream media and the fringe right wing 'christian' media have an agenda. They stand to gain financially from war because they are an arm of the military industrial complex.

No one else stand to gain...infact many people will lose including many Israeli civilians.

 

[just me]

Now i have jewish ancestry and would not exist were it not for the jewish people. You are a christian zionist who seems intent on bringing on the end times which according to christian zionists would see the destruction of all jews in Israel who do not convert to christianity. muir quote

You have an interesting way of looking at things, but you are to my satisfaction wrong.

How were the other millions killed and how were the Jews killed? The rest of the world, saving very few places, did stand by and watch. You should study your history....and you are wrong about me.

 

[muir]

Now i have jewish ancestry and would not exist were it not for the jewish people. You are a christian zionist who seems intent on bringing on the end times which according to christian zionists would see the destruction of all jews in Israel who do not convert to christianity. muir quote

You have an interesting way of looking at things, but you are to my satisfaction wrong.

How were the other millions killed and how were the Jews killed? The rest of the world, saving very few places, did stand by and watch. You should study your history....and you are wrong about me.

Many jews were killed as the Nazis expanded east creating lebensraum and many non jews died in gulags as well as in the various conflicts, bombings and massacres

It was war waged industrially with modern efficiency. It was a human disaster which all people should learn from

Listen I have made my position clear on this. I am not anti-Israel. Although i sympathise with the point that Achmedinajad has said that it is wrong that the Palestineans should pay for a crime they had nothing to do with the reality is that Israel exists. The question now is how to bring peace to the middle east.

This is not about 'armchair warriors' this is about members of democracies informing themselves so that they can influence the policy makers in their countries.

I believe that the best option for the Israelis is to work towards peace with their neighbours. One of the main sticking points with countries such as Iran is the treatment of the Palestineans. That hurdle can be overcome with the creation of a palestinean state.

I have mentioned the role jews have played in banking, politics and world affairs in general because i want to overturn the false idea some people have that jews are helpless victims. The reality is that they are hugely influential and fully involved in world affairs.

I also want to challenge the idea that jews have a monopoly on suffering or genocide. As i have said more slavs died in WW2 but we don't hear about that in the media all the time. The reason being that it is not being used as an excuse for further violence.

I don't think war against Iran is going to make Israel safer and neither will strikes against Irans many nuclear facilities, because such strikes will be treated by Iran as an act of war. It will also be perceived as an attack from the US and Israel and that means that they will seek to visit violence back upon the US mainland in return for violence done to them. That means you will be in the firing line.

I think instead of allowing the military industrial complex to keep steering the US foreign policy the US should cut funding to Israel to bring it to the negotiation table in order to create a Palestinean state and begin healing the hurt between the two peoples. Then the US should take radical steps to deal with its dependancy on oil which the rest of the world has to pay for when the US military starts dropping bombs on them.

 

[just me]

I can see
we disagree

 

[magister343]

I'm committing thread necromancy because I just realized that the YouTuber of whom I complained here is currently a candidate in the Republican Primary for the US Senate race here in Georgia. I thought Mr. Derrick Greyson looked familiar in the debate last week, but did not realize why until a few hours ago. I am now positive that it is the same guy. My parents were considering voting for him tomorrow (although they leaned more strongly towards another, much more electable candidate), but changed their minds when I told them of his behavior in this encounter.

Your posts keep reminding me with how irritated I am over the response to a comment I made on a YouTube video last week.

Most of the guy's videos were about why we should all support Ron Paul, but he also claimed to be a preacher and had some videos about churches and the bible. (There are also quite a few about how his fellow blacks shouldn't use PC terms like African American, how they need to be responsible and stop depending on the government, how boys need father to teach them to act more masculine, etc. He often curses but insists that anyone who does so in a comment will be banned, because "this is MY HOUSE.")

This particular video was about how what so many preachers teach about the requirement to give a tithe is wrong (and motivated by their own greed), especially when trying to defend this position to get money from Gentile Christians. I agree with him on this and on a majority of what he says, but he does make some significant mistakes from time to time and often has the wrong attitude even when his positions are right. (He seems to be a Te dominant, and has the associated bluntness.) Anyway, the point in question was when he said that Jesus did away with the Law of Moses and replaced them with two new commandments; to love God and love thy neighbor.

Jesus did not say that there were only two commandments, but that all commandments depend on those two.

Both Commandments Jesus gave were direct quotes from the Law of Moses. They were not listed in the Ten Commandments, but most Rabbis of Christ's time agreed that they were the most important parts.

The 10 Commandments are explicitly addressed to those taken out of Egypt. Jews teach that gentiles are bound only to the 7 Laws of Noah, and even these have no value unless followed out of love rather than merely prudence.

I'll say this then block you. I don't allow people who come thinking to correct me when they have no DAMNED idea of they speak of. First, the OT 10 Commandments REQUIRED NO LOVE, merely OBEDIENCE. The two commandments Jesus gave were NOT quotes from the OT as you so boldly proclaim. Loving thy God and thy neighbor are HIS DIRECT QUOTES from NT concerning THE NEW DISPENSATION OF GRACE. NOW, BE GONE!

He did block me so I could not give the exact quotes from Deuteronomy and Leviticus in a public reply. Instead I sent them in a private message along with an explanation of the central importance of the Shema, how keeping commandments is considered a way to show love, what the Seven Noahide Laws are, where some were explicitly mentioned in scripture, how the others come from oral tradition but seem to agree well with scripture, how these are related to the decision of the apostles at the Council of Jerusalem, how Orthodox Jews teach it is wrong to compel a gentile to keep more than just the laws of Noah, how some go so far as to teach that it is wrong for a gentile to chose to adhere to the Law of Moses without formally converting, how a righteous gentile is considered the moral equivalent of the high priest of Israel, how Jesus tended to agree with Hillel, how where Jesus differed from the mainstream was in applying "neighbor" much more broadly, how 1 John explains that the new commandment is not in fact new but has been with us from the beginning, etc. He ignored this, presumably deleted it since I can find no record of it anymore, and kept me blocked so I could never point out his mistakes again.




(I prefer to give Paul more benefit of the doubt than you do though. He himself is believed to have personally continued to adhere to the Law of Moses. The writings that seem to be against the law were addressed to those who insisted on teaching gentiles to keep the law, especially while themselves not adhering to all of it. Many experts believe that he favored hyperbole and that some of what we assume were his views may have been a satire or reductio ad absurdum of his opponents. Peter stated that his writings are very hard to understand and have led many astray, but that when they met in person and he was able to explain what he had meant then they agreed. )

 

[Lark]

After studying endless hours on the subject of Philosophy of Religion, I have just came to the conclusion that God either does not exist or God is unknowable to human-beings. Let me begin with the first problem: The omnipotence of God. Now if God were all powerful, would he have the ability to create a boulder too heavy for him to lift? Either he has the power to create the boulder and not lift it or he can create a boulder which is liftable; therefore not unliftable. In both cases he has a great limitation. so in my view, it is logically impossible for god to be omnipotent.

Is it possible for God to be omniscient? Yes. Omniscience doesn't contradict itself, but when combined with omnipotence, it creates limitations.

For instance, would God have the power to change his all-knowing mind? If he had the power to change his mind, he would not be omniscient because he would have to change his divine plan. If he lacked the ability to change his mind, then he would not be omnipotent.

------------------------------------------------------------------
The God of Abraham: If the God of Abraham was omniscient, then he would have a past, present, and future mind; therefore he knew that Satin would have gone against him before it happened. Also, he would have known that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge before they did it. Now if he knew all this was going to occur, would he do anything to prevent it?

This was all one Divine plan. If this was one divine plan, then he must have planned to fail humanity.

Either we have an indifferent creator who looks at human nature without a concern or a creator who lacks the ability to help us, however I don't believe he exists at all. That's the last option.

Imagine an all loving creator who had the ability to help humanity. . . would the world be the way it is now if we had such a creator?

Often in the Bible, Quran, and Torah, God says, "wait for me and I will come." --- If God was omnipresent, then wouldn't he exist everywhere and in everything? Why would we have to wait for him?

If God was good-willed and loving, then why did he damn the nations or flood the world?

The first part, well, those are words and I dont believe its possible to capture the mystery of God with words. That may sound like a cop out but the real question is whether or not God conceiveable, to which I would say the answer is either no or barely.

The second part, the problem of evil, God isnt the author of most of the evil that exists in the world but also God does not care only about humankind, he does especially but he also cares about all of creation too, which explains things such as the flood etc. Its the natural consequences often of ecosystems in operation.

 

[just me]

Galatians 5:16-26
King James Version

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


To me, this is most people's problem when it comes to God: the works of the flesh. Why hide or change when one can simply say He does not exist? People who believe know the fruits of the Spirit of God. We see them every day, as we also see
God in them. There are mysteries in the Holy Bible. Do I know them all? No, I don't think so. However, if one follows the instructions, God will show one anything one asks of Him. It may take giving something of oneself to show its importance to oneself.
One must study, pray, knock on the door and ask, seek at all times. God showed me things in the Bible that took selflessness, studying, and studying Greek Lexicons. It took years for me to finally understand. I was shown things out of context, but with other verses to back them up. Have to go for now.

 

[ByTheWaves]

Galatians 5:16-26
King James Version

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


To me, this is most people's problem when it comes to God: the works of the flesh. Why hide or change when one can simply say He does not exist? People who believe know the fruits of the Spirit of God. We see them every day, as we also see
God in them. There are mysteries in the Holy Bible. Do I know them all? No, I don't think so. However, if one follows the instructions, God will show one anything one asks of Him. It may take giving something of oneself to show its importance to oneself.
One must study, pray, knock on the door and ask, seek at all times. God showed me things in the Bible that took selflessness, studying, and studying Greek Lexicons. It took years for me to finally understand. I was shown things out of context, but with other verses to back them up. Have to go for now.

Do you think the great delusion God sent was things for people not to believe in God? Or at least a God.

 

[ByTheWaves]

Some people don't want to know about God because they don't want consequences for their lifestyle and choices.

It is hard for a mortal, finite being to comprehend a being that is out of our realm and time-space zone.

Also.
Whoever was talking about the Bible being the dumbed down belief system. The elites hate Jesus. Why would the elites hate Jesus, and promote every other single religion and supposed diety? Because they know he existed.
The elites work in, as above so below. They literally invert everything of God's word, and they are also paganistic, make sacrifices to idols, and they love the adversary- Satan (if Satan exists.) It is so obvious and right in our faces. They make their own mumbo jumbo occult gnostic religions, supposedly, using information they got from otherworldly sources. They want to defy God, and because they want to BE gods or God. Also, if they got their information from an otherworldly being that was NOT God, I suppose then they got their information from Satan and demons?

Really, when you think about it, demons and Satan hate human beings. If they exist, they do everything to drag us down with them. If they really hate us, then WHY would they want to give anybody correct information about how the world works. How are the elites supposed to know what they're being told is true or not? If demons really hate us, they'll take us for a joy ride and toy with us. Here, we'll give you some esoteric information about the world... We never said it's true though. Hah! You foolish humans.

And if Moses was a dude who suddenly used a supposedly area pagan god... Then we're all stuffed.

Yes, we know the elites worship the sun. I've heard all of this about the Bible being Egyptian all before.
But I need more information about this before I can discuss it any further.

Too bad the OP about that subject posted about it 9 years ago....

 

[o2b]

Do you think the great delusion God sent was things for people not to believe in God? Or at least a God.

Well, Romans 1 says creation is sufficient evidence for the existence of God. Evolution as a theory is missing about 99.9999% of the scientific explanation to provide a complete path of dirt+sun+whatever -> a sentient creature.

It's complicated. You've got God being pictured as a genocidal monster in the OT. (Supposedly.) You've got God pictured as One who deliberately appears rough to His creation and walks away weeping. There are the riddles and enigmas.

Innocence did much to cause evil to be a presence and we are in the midst of God's management of this greatest of all usurpers.

Luke 15:4-7
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8a
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails.

Ultimately, love is a compulsive force. Reason finds love compulsive.

He gonna find everybody, but in the meantime, fasten your seatbelts.

 

[just me]

Do you think the great delusion God sent was things for people not to believe in God? Or at least a God.

Would the "great delusion" man may have in his mind have a lot to do with a blank mind and an understudied heart?

 

[ByTheWaves]

Would the "great delusion" man may have in his mind have a lot to do with a blank mind and an understudied heart?

Hmmm. Who knows.
It could be the evolution theory, or that there are so many other religions, or just a great delusion in general about a belief in God.

 

[David54]

I rather think the problem is not God. The problem is religion. There is no universal understanding of God but rather countless people creating belief systems in an attempt to make their vision of God the brightest.
Might be helpful to consider that God does not write books. God is not direct the minds and the hands of those that do.
Books are just that, books.
Religion really isn't about God after all anyway. Religion is about maintaining the priest class.
Man's inability to understand and come to consensus with humility is man's problem, not God's

 

[o2b]

I rather think the problem is not God. The problem is religion. There is no universal understanding of God but rather countless people creating belief systems in an attempt to make their vision of God the brightest.
Might be helpful to consider that God does not write books. God is not direct the minds and the hands of those that do.
Books are just that, books.
Religion really isn't about God after all anyway. Religion is about maintaining the priest class.
Man's inability to understand and come to consensus with humility is man's problem, not God's

It is at least theoretically plausible that God can influence the mind of folks so that what they write contains His influence upon them.

 

[David54]

Which book or books..see, therein is the problem.