The NF Type | INFJ Forum

The NF Type

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by VH, Oct 15, 2009.

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  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    I've been doing some more reading, and I've been seeing something in the patterns of it all. Yeah, here I go again on one of my tangents...

    I've noticed that some of us NF types score very clearly as NF. Additionally, on tests that measure cognitive functions, these same people score high on Ni, Ne, Fi, and Fe, usually higher than the rest of their other functions.

    What if the cognitive functions are not as solid as theory suggests? I'm starting to come to a sense that the human mind has standard patterns that it tends to use, but not everyone uses them. What if the cognitive functions are actually are more like cognitive centers in the brain N, F, T, and S, and the direction you go to get from one to another indicates whether it is introverted or extroverted... and the act of going from one to another is what creates the function. If that is the case, then we simply have to be forced to find a new route to develop ability with that function.

    Standard cognitive mapping would look a lot like the Jungian models, but due to the nature of the way the brain keeps developing new neural pathways, it is possible that anyone could develop any functions, and that some of us have blazed a lot more trails from N to F in all directions than the rest, creating stronger Ni, Fe, Ne, and Fi preferences than the rest. I'm really starting to think this is the case more than a set model, not only due to the patterns of self assessment results, but due to the way the mind works in general according to other theories. In other words, I think I just had an Ni moment where all the models lined up.

    Edited: because the rest of this was really wacky...

    Sorry if this is too abstract to follow. I needed to get this out and down before I lose this flash of insight.
     
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    #1 VH, Oct 15, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
  2. OP
    VH

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    This notion would explain how the cognitive functions form, how they develop strength, and most importantly, it would explain how an INFJ can seem like an INFP, an ENFJ, or any other type. It explains the people who are pretty solidly NF, but nothing else. This theory would even explain the people who don't fit into any type at all.

    The simple fact of the matter is that on a unique level, anyone can develop the standard parts into any configuration at whatever levels they want. The mind is just too adaptive a thing to force into tight boxes. The boxes have to be as adaptive as the thing it is trying to contain.
     
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  3. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    maybe the two letter types are what happens when people get balanced access functions?

    So instead of being a fully balanced INFJ we just become NF?
     
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  4. OP
    VH

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    That is simplistically brilliant.

    In effect, it doesn't matter if we're INFP, ENFP, INFJ, or ENFJ, the better developed we become, the more balanced our I/E and J/P become until we're just effectively NFs. Whether we come from Ne and Fi or Ni and Fe, the tandem use of these functions creates their counterparts.
     
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  5. OP
    VH

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    This would also explain why the more developed we are, the more like any of the NF types we can seem. I tend to stay in an INFJ mode, at least for the past few years that I've been tracking this. But, I can flip into ENFJ, INFP, or even ENFP modes... as witnessed by my quiz results tonight.

    I know that more than a few of us here share a similar ability with at least one type.

    However, this theory could go much deeper than just normalizing into NF, NT, SF, or ST. It could explain how some of us cross those lines too. I'll have to let my Ni percolate this some more.
     
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  6. IndigoSensor

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    This does make alot of sense to me, and does seem to work and effect most infj's here.

    Nevertheless, I don't think it would work for everyone, as there is more then one way to balence yourself out as you develop as a person. I am an example of this as I am more or less an IJ varient, and I am drifting more towards this as I grow older.
     
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  7. Seeker

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    Very interesting theory Von Hase, as usual. :)
     
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    i know i always have IN
     
  9. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    (ENFJ, INFJ) <-> (ENFP, INFP)

    I find the types in each group more alike with each other, than with the other group. Especially Se/Ni (true strength, artificial weakness) versus Ne/Si (artificial strength, true weakness). I'm not even sure yet, if they can get along well enough.

    For now, I'd say each person has a basic MBTI type, but can fluctuate and control thier own thinking to simulate other types. However, eventually returns to the stable state, which is the original type.
     
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  10. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    I've always thought that keeping people boxed into a certain order for function development was a bit silly. I know people start off with a certain function order, but really, you only need the first two functions to develop naturally to determine type.

    In other words, a child will naturally develop their first two functions in order, which makes their type. Once the start really developing more functions and a greater range, though, they can really develop just about any function, depending on the situation. We use function situationally as we get older; we may prefer using some, but that doesn't mean we can't develop ourselves across the spectrum.

    For instance, I have a lovely Ne and Fi, and more recently it seems that I might have a higher Te than I first thought as well. I contribute that to being where I am and doing what I do -- it might not be in the "standard" order than INFJs are supposed to develop by the model, but who cares about that, right? The fact of the matter is, you can develop what you need to, and that's what makes a person balanced.

    So it makes sense to me. I think NF is inherent because we begin with N and F functions, but the I and J becomes blurred as we develop more functions and get more comfortable with a range of introverted and extroverted, perceiving and judging, functions.
     
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  11. Gaze

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    Really like this theory. Makes quite a bit of sense. I think many INFjs will relate to this quite a bit.
     
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  12. OP
    VH

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    Edit: Actually, more in line with what I was previously discussing, I had another idea occur to me.

    Here are my graphed cognitive function test results, with the weight of each function to scale with my scores, showing overall N, F, T, and S.

    View attachment 1529

    However, I suddenly realized that this is also a really good tool to define how I or E any given cognitive mode is. All you have to do is set each bar to the same width, and allow the midpoint to qualify as the true ambiversion point.

    Here are my most polar results combined, creating the shaded area as the discrepancy between them.

    View attachment 1531

    As you can see, My F function results fluctuate highly, my N and T functions moderately, and my S function barely at all.

    But, the most interesting thing to note is that when taking the midpoint into consideration, we can see that my N and T lean toward i, and my S leans toward e. Only my F seems to be truly ambiverted.

    While this seems to add validity to my previous theory that the mind maps itself out as it needs to, I think this approach of referencing through equalizing overall N, F, T, and S might help some of us clear up our types a little better.
     
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    #12 VH, Oct 15, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
  13. Orion

    Orion Strength through understanding
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    I like the idea of just being an NF.
     
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    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    No one group of people can be exactly defined, but they can mostly.
     
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  15. OP
    VH

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    I think this is the most Ni > Fe statement I've ever read. :)

    I feel exactly the same way. Everyone is unique, but trends do exist.

    I am really starting to think that Ni + Fe working in tandem create a an effective shadow Fi and a fairly effective shadow Ne. However, Fe + Ti working in tandem add to the shadow Fi, and Ni + Se working in tandem add to shadow Ne. Therefore, INFJs are likely to have a shadow Fi in proportion to how well they use Ni + Fe, as well as Fe + Ti in tandem, and therefore is a gestalt of their Ni, Fe, and Ti. Since these are an INFJ's top three functions, it is likely that an INFJ will have a shadow Fi in proportion to them - often to a degree of secondary function use. Meanwhile, an INFJ's shadow Ne is going to be in proportion to their Ni, Fe, and Se, which is going to be slightly less in most INFJs due to Se being the inferior function - often to a degree of tertiary use. This explains why so many INFJs confuse themselves with INFPs and ENFJs.

    In other words, I think my above mentioned theory is influenced heavily by the notion of tandem functions.

    This means that the opposites are also likely true. Ne + Fi working in tandem create a an effective shadow Ni and a fairly effective shadow Fe. However, Fi + Te working in tandem add to the shadow Fe, and Ne + Si working in tandem add to shadow Ni. Well developed ENFPs will have a solid shadow Ni (seeming to be secondary Ni) and a fairly effective shadow Fe (seeming to be tertiary Fe). This makes a lot of sense as to why so many ENFPs confuse themselves with INFJs and ENTPs, and why INFPs confuse themselves with INFJs and ENFJs.

    At some point, both cognitive development groups will overlap heavily and may appear even less distinguishable.
     
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    #15 VH, Oct 16, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
  16. OP
    VH

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    And all of a sudden, I realized why we INFJs tend to do kinda poorly at Te. It is a tandem function of Fe + Ti, as well as Ti + Se. In other words, as a shadow function it is the summation of our least 3.

    Si might only be influenced by Ti + Se for most of us, making it commonly the least developed function for our type, but some people develop a way to tandem Ni + Se to enhance it greatly.
     
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    #16 VH, Oct 16, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
  17. Raccoon Love

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    What about those INFJ's who perform better on their thinking functions then their feeling functions? I realized this after adding my function scores, although my Te is pretty low, my Ti is higher than my Fi..But I see where your getting at, I'm realizing I'm acting more xNFx lately, though I still have a very solid preference for I and J is at about 60%
     
  18. OP
    VH

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    Males almost always report higher T preferences than F preferences in self assessment tests. This might be a bias toward gender roles, or even a cultural influence for males to focus more on their T functions because we're not supposed to be so 'sensitive'. It could also just be biological that males are less inclined toward F functions. I don't exactly know why this phenomenon exists but it does.

    I have definitely seen in INFJ males a trend toward strong Ti preferences, even if they prefer their Fe function more.

    Also, not to show you any disrespect due to your age, but it is likely that you haven't developed a lot of tandem use of your functions because you likely haven't fully matured the base functions that would be used in tandem.
     
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    Like me :D

    Shadow functions can appear anywhere. I think this is largely influences how confortable we are with how it is used. For me I am very confortable with Si because it is known, solid concrete, and internal. All of which I am confortable with (this also influnced by my I/E and P/J scores, which i believe is the driving force behind where all shadow functions appear). Since it is a shadow function, it can appear anywhere in an INFJ's searies. Where as something like Se, will show up in the Ni>Fe>Ti>Se set that we are given, because it is intrinsic for being an INFJ, and is locked in place.
     
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    No need to apologize. I am going to buy a pocket tape recorder tommorow because I'm so sick of losing those flashes.
    Not trying to change the subject, or anything. :)
     
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