Of course the MBTI assessment tool should not be used to indicate anything but outer behavioral preferences. That is why MBTI is junk.
Here
The Many Faces of INFJ
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Of course the MBTI assessment tool should not be used to indicate anything but outer behavioral preferences. That is why MBTI is junk.
Here
Jung posited three dichotomies: introversion - extroversion; sensing - intuition; thinking - feeling.
Myers & Brigg posited one more, perceiving - judging. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that when a personality type is proposed that includes P/J one is using the Myers-Brigg or some subsequent approach.
Myers & Brigg posited one more, perceiving - judging. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that when a personality type is proposed that includes P/J one is using the Myers-Brigg or some subsequent approach.
Limit said:Omg I give up.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN BY THE IGNORANCE OF THIS FORUM AND NOBODY WILLING TO STOP IT.
Do you have any suggestion on how we could actually go about improving the knowledge base? I'm interested.
Also, what are your thoughts on the OP? I've found it fascinating, that those kinds of INFJs could exist. I mean, are there people who go against their own preferences? Take the INFJ function set; could an INFJ use their Se dominantly? Force a reversal by choice or environmental factors? If thats true it opens up the possibilities of the manifestations of CF hugely.
In other words, is it possible for a type to force their least preferred CF to their dominant use? But they still remain their base type because that's their genetic preference?
Hey, now.
It's okay to discuss different ideas; it's not okay to call folks ignorant (read: stupid) because they don't subscribe to certain ideas.
And no one will stop it, Limit, because we don't limit (hah, pun) free expression when it comes to typology theory. There's always someone who'll not agree, or come up with another theory, or some such.
It's okay to discuss different ideas; it's not okay to call folks ignorant (read: stupid) because they don't subscribe to certain ideas.
And no one will stop it, Limit, because we don't limit (hah, pun) free expression when it comes to typology theory. There's always someone who'll not agree, or come up with another theory, or some such.
Alright, I know this wasn't directed at me but I'll answer anyways. I don't really think that any of these infj's on the OP have a CF list that is vastly different than the theoretical one proposed by mbti. I don't really think that you could still be an infj and have Se, Ni, Fe, Ti as your CFs in that order because you're primary mode of living would be external or extraverted.
At the very least, we could come to a consensus that all infj's have a dominant Ni, which is what sets us apart from everyone else apart from intj's.
However, that does not mean that we can still use our latter functions to a varying degree between person to person. Especially because, you know, everyone is different and uses their CF's in a more personalized ratio. In some cases, certain inferior functions could overtake higher ones, with the exception of the primary function. For example I think you could be Ni, Ti, Fe, Se or Ni, Fe, Se, Ti instead of Ni, Fe, Ti, Se but changing the primary function changes the type. Also note that these would be rare cases and these people would need therapy, Especially the Ni Ti loop person because they would be really closed off and anxious albeit brilliant.
I think that the different faces of the infj are more molded by the individual experiences of some people. Not every infj wants the same thing. Some manipulate to get what they want, others are humanitarians.
@Orion and @bickelz this one goes out to you.
I chose my wording very carefully in the OP, I did not say that Se is becoming Dominant for the "Se wanabe" for instance. That simply does not happen, if you are an INFJ, then Ni is your Dominant function and that will not change.
The creature that I speak of in this thread is an Ni-Fe:Ti-Se creature, and all experience will be extrapolated from this hierarchy, however as I said before, there is still an infinite amount of ways that this hierarchy can be used, they do not all lead to the one dimensional descriptions and understandings that you find in MBTI.
The phenomenon that you and I am referring to is called "Modulation." This is a Pod'Lair principle that does not exist in MBTI or JCF, so unfortunately when left to their own devices, they can only explain it with a very crude understanding the phenomenon, (like rationalizing the functions are literally going into different hierarchies for instance.) All people have two Momentum Functions (These would be the top two, Dominant and Aux on your hierarchy) which are very stimulating and heroic to use and have validated, and two Modulation functions (Tert and Inferior) which are require much more energy to use and always comes with a "far reach" feeling when using them. In the simplest of terms, Modulation essentially "reins in" the Momentum functions, working as a counter balance and cause them to produce less work. Modulation functions, especially the Inferior, should not be thought of as being "underdeveloped" or otherwise weak for the sake of being weak, again this is a very crude MBTI and JCE understanding of them. When used in ways that are conducive to one's hierarchy, which means subordinate to the function higher than them, then they are meant to refine the products that are coming from the top two Momentum functions, providing them with a more balanced finish, so they are not so raw, clunky, clumsy and incomplete.
However, due to certain circumstances, one of them being your environment and the people in your environment, many people Over-Modulate, which means their higher two functions are being suppressed more than they should be, causing them to do a less amount of work and not allowing them to generate the proper energy one needs to properly power the rest of their functions. The social environment we live in in the western world, specifically America, is mostly conducive to Sensing and Thinking perceptual modalities (Not necessarily because STs are more common), which means Sensing and Thinking functions are the quickest and easiest to be validated, and Intuition an Feeling functions are not as readily understood, and much more vulnerable to attack. The INFJ and ENFP have both N and F functions as Momentum functions, so many of them go through life having to Over-Modulate their lower functions just to be understood or receive validation, and this creates a nasty habit in the psyche of doing this habitually. Over-Modulation can actually shift your awareness of what functions you identify with, seeing your modulation functions as being closer to your identity than they actually are, which is why this examples of people are more often than not, completely mistyped and tend to think they are something they are not. However this does not change their hierarchy, the energy relationship of their Momentum functions being more stimulating and readily usable will not change no matter how much they are modulating, this is why it is not actually to say that their inferior is literally becoming dominant, however It would be accurate to say it is becoming more pervasive than it should be. It would also not be accurate to say for instance, that an Se overmodualted INFJ is acting like an ESTP, because realistically ESTPs are not like this. ESTPs are energized and stimulated by their Se, so their behavior is technically not at all like an an INFJ Over-modulating with Se. That has always been an anoyance of mine whenever I hear "INFJ going into ESTP mode" or something like that, because an ESTP is not defined by showing really kinetic behavior, they are defined by functioning in their hierarchy of functions and all that it implies. All types share what you can call a "Fetishy" relationship with their inferior function, so if I were to make more of these "Faces of ____" threads, I would put in in a "__ Wannabe" entry corresponding to all of their inferiors. The inferior function is one that we all have natural sensitivities toward, as it feels the farthest from our psyche, and we have on some level an awareness that if were are going to screw up in some way, it will probably because we overlooked something having to do with the inferior function. So we tend to over compensate for it in various ways, and we put forth efforts to master this part of the psyche, and make damn sure if we are going to screw up on something, it is not going to be some stupid inferior function detail that we left out. There is a way to do this masterfully, and when done on the terms of your momentum functions, then it is actually a great experience. When you start with your Dominant and Auxiliary, and then refine this material with your Tertiary and inferior, and then perform this experience in one moment of glory, like Ni's scope of *everything* being gracefully poured through the tiny tiny Se hole of Right-fucking-now, what you get is an extremely validating and masterful use of functions. This is called "Peaking", again, another Pod'Lair principle that does not exist in MBTI or JCF. However, it is also possible to over fetish on your Inferior functions, taking your attempt to master it into over exposure to it, this produces very unheathy results as you are not respecting the proper order you are supposed to function in. What I describe in the "Se Wannabe" entry would fit into the latter description.
This is not an ideal way to be functioning, energetically speaking. Not only is it more energy efficient to start with your Dominant functions and reach your lower functions on those terms, you will be able to reach much further potential than if you are over modulating and not allowing your momentum functions to do what they naturally want do.
I chose my wording very carefully in the OP, I did not say that Se is becoming Dominant for the "Se wanabe" for instance. That simply does not happen, if you are an INFJ, then Ni is your Dominant function and that will not change.
The creature that I speak of in this thread is an Ni-Fe:Ti-Se creature, and all experience will be extrapolated from this hierarchy, however as I said before, there is still an infinite amount of ways that this hierarchy can be used, they do not all lead to the one dimensional descriptions and understandings that you find in MBTI.
The phenomenon that you and I am referring to is called "Modulation." This is a Pod'Lair principle that does not exist in MBTI or JCF, so unfortunately when left to their own devices, they can only explain it with a very crude understanding the phenomenon, (like rationalizing the functions are literally going into different hierarchies for instance.) All people have two Momentum Functions (These would be the top two, Dominant and Aux on your hierarchy) which are very stimulating and heroic to use and have validated, and two Modulation functions (Tert and Inferior) which are require much more energy to use and always comes with a "far reach" feeling when using them. In the simplest of terms, Modulation essentially "reins in" the Momentum functions, working as a counter balance and cause them to produce less work. Modulation functions, especially the Inferior, should not be thought of as being "underdeveloped" or otherwise weak for the sake of being weak, again this is a very crude MBTI and JCE understanding of them. When used in ways that are conducive to one's hierarchy, which means subordinate to the function higher than them, then they are meant to refine the products that are coming from the top two Momentum functions, providing them with a more balanced finish, so they are not so raw, clunky, clumsy and incomplete.
However, due to certain circumstances, one of them being your environment and the people in your environment, many people Over-Modulate, which means their higher two functions are being suppressed more than they should be, causing them to do a less amount of work and not allowing them to generate the proper energy one needs to properly power the rest of their functions. The social environment we live in in the western world, specifically America, is mostly conducive to Sensing and Thinking perceptual modalities (Not necessarily because STs are more common), which means Sensing and Thinking functions are the quickest and easiest to be validated, and Intuition an Feeling functions are not as readily understood, and much more vulnerable to attack. The INFJ and ENFP have both N and F functions as Momentum functions, so many of them go through life having to Over-Modulate their lower functions just to be understood or receive validation, and this creates a nasty habit in the psyche of doing this habitually. Over-Modulation can actually shift your awareness of what functions you identify with, seeing your modulation functions as being closer to your identity than they actually are, which is why this examples of people are more often than not, completely mistyped and tend to think they are something they are not. However this does not change their hierarchy, the energy relationship of their Momentum functions being more stimulating and readily usable will not change no matter how much they are modulating, this is why it is not actually to say that their inferior is literally becoming dominant, however It would be accurate to say it is becoming more pervasive than it should be. It would also not be accurate to say for instance, that an Se overmodualted INFJ is acting like an ESTP, because realistically ESTPs are not like this. ESTPs are energized and stimulated by their Se, so their behavior is technically not at all like an an INFJ Over-modulating with Se. That has always been an anoyance of mine whenever I hear "INFJ going into ESTP mode" or something like that, because an ESTP is not defined by showing really kinetic behavior, they are defined by functioning in their hierarchy of functions and all that it implies. All types share what you can call a "Fetishy" relationship with their inferior function, so if I were to make more of these "Faces of ____" threads, I would put in in a "__ Wannabe" entry corresponding to all of their inferiors. The inferior function is one that we all have natural sensitivities toward, as it feels the farthest from our psyche, and we have on some level an awareness that if were are going to screw up in some way, it will probably because we overlooked something having to do with the inferior function. So we tend to over compensate for it in various ways, and we put forth efforts to master this part of the psyche, and make damn sure if we are going to screw up on something, it is not going to be some stupid inferior function detail that we left out. There is a way to do this masterfully, and when done on the terms of your momentum functions, then it is actually a great experience. When you start with your Dominant and Auxiliary, and then refine this material with your Tertiary and inferior, and then perform this experience in one moment of glory, like Ni's scope of *everything* being gracefully poured through the tiny tiny Se hole of Right-fucking-now, what you get is an extremely validating and masterful use of functions. This is called "Peaking", again, another Pod'Lair principle that does not exist in MBTI or JCF. However, it is also possible to over fetish on your Inferior functions, taking your attempt to master it into over exposure to it, this produces very unheathy results as you are not respecting the proper order you are supposed to function in. What I describe in the "Se Wannabe" entry would fit into the latter description.
This is not an ideal way to be functioning, energetically speaking. Not only is it more energy efficient to start with your Dominant functions and reach your lower functions on those terms, you will be able to reach much further potential than if you are over modulating and not allowing your momentum functions to do what they naturally want do.
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I'd have to do some research to back it up before I can be sure, but I remember reading several months ago that those who knew Hitler claimed that he was a very kind and empathetic man, up until he got a head injury during World War I. It is possible that his personality was being not merely influenced by psychological illness but by serious brain damage
My Bullshit sense is tingling.
Does that mean we are supposed to believe every single German, Gestapo, and Member of Hitler's cabinet that not only stood idly by and agreed with what Hitler was doing, but helped his cause, also suffered sociopathic behavior inducing head injuries?
I am amazed the followers of MBTI are still comfortable with it knowing it is too weak to understand anyone that does not fit into the one-dimensional 16 stereotypes.
I didn't read all the posts before and this question may have been answered already but how did you come up with this? Did you come up with it through research or just personal observation?
I'm not sure if the OP wrote this or not because I saw it on another forum. It could be that the OP is a part of another forum though, which is probable.
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I have no reason to believe that Hitler couldn't have been an INFJ. He clearly had strange personal ideals and was able to force them on to an entire nation. He also believed with 100% conviction that he was right. Sounds very INFJey to me, empathetic or not.
And don't forget that before he went off his rocker and started persecuting Jews and planning world domination he did a lot of good things for Germany.
And don't forget that before he went off his rocker and started persecuting Jews and planning world domination he did a lot of good things for Germany.