[PAX] - The Impeachment of Donald J. Trump | Page 50 | INFJ Forum

[PAX] The Impeachment of Donald J. Trump

I'm not doubling down on anything I'm asking you questions about what you think would be a reasonable alternative to what is being done. In order to double down I would have to be defending something, as opposed to explaining the situation as best as I understand and then asking questions based on your responses.
I read it like you're challenging me to come up with a better solution to the problem (Trump created then had to go back and try to undo.) To me, it's pretty simple actually. Don't separate families. Which is what the policy was before Trump was elected and enacted his zero tolerance policy. It's not like the US was incapable of handling traffickers before Trump. Not like agents didn't have authority to look into anyone suspicious.
 
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Well that's perfectly ghastly. I guess you still can't put children in with thier parents when they cross the border alone though :unhappy:
It is ghastly.
The wrong kind of adults will take advantage of children when the opportunity presents itself.
It's doesn't matter if it's the Mom's new BF she thinks she can trust alone with her children or if it's staffers at one of the immigrant detention centers.
("Detention" is an awfully harsh word for it now that I write it...but that's just me...even illegal crossings are misdemeanors - we don't imprison people in the US for misdemeanors generally.)

The point was that yes...more children are at risk in the "camps" and Foster care system and being taken away from those who would protect them after being separated not before.
Sure you can screen children and watch the suspected ones...but the blanket separation of families was done to create fear and appease a base with cruel and racist tendencies already toward migrants or immigrants.
It was condemned by the UN and just about every other human right watchdog out there.
And it was done as a deterrent which is disgusting to me - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump...ly_separation_as_a_means_to_deter_immigration
- https://money.com/trump-family-separation-policy-uber-facebook-google-microsoft/
(not the the Catholics have much room to talk but...) - https://www.wnycatholic.org/news/ar...igration-policy-condemned-by-catholic-leaders

I'm glad that the policy was eventually stopped, but it wasn't stopped when it was ordered by the courts, the Trump admin kept it up for another year or so.

U.S. immigration authorities separated more than 1,500 children from their parents at the Mexico border early in the Trump administration, the American Civil Liberties Union said Thursday, bringing the total number of children separated since July 2017 to more than 5,400.

The ACLU said the administration told its attorneys that 1,556 children were separated from July 1, 2017, to June 26, 2018, when a federal judge in San Diego ordered that children in government custody be reunited with their parents.


Children from that period can be difficult to find because the government had inadequate tracking systems. Volunteers working with the ACLU are searching for some of them and their parents by going door-to-door in Guatemala and Honduras.
Of those separated during the 12-month period, 207 were younger than 5, said attorney Lee Gelernt of the ACLU, which sued to stop family separation. Five were younger than a year old, 26 were a year old, 40 were 2 years old, 76 were 3, and 60 were 4.

"It is shocking that 1,556 more families, including babies and toddlers, join the thousands of others already torn apart by this inhumane and illegal policy," said Gelernt. "Families have suffered tremendously, and some may never recover."

The Justice Department declined to comment."

"In January 2019, the administration acknowledged that thousands more children may have been separated from their families than the previously reported figure of 2,737, with officials uncertain of the exact number. Investigation showed that the child separation policy had actually begun in the summer of 2017, prior to the zero tolerance policy announced in April 2018. Federal officials said there were no plans to attempt to reunite these children because "it would destabilize the permanency of their existing home environment, and could be traumatic to the children."[30][31][32] In May 2019, the administration acknowledged that at least an additional 1,712 migrant children may have been separated from their parents even before the "zero tolerance" policy was implemented.[33]"

The administration can make up as many justifications as they can but it's quite clear that they did it on a political whim with little to no regard or understanding or the overall impact and cruelty.
Then too NOT try and find the parents of the children forcibly separated due to some BS about "destabilizing" their lives is lazy and unconscionable.
Deporting parents separated from their children, while the US govt. starts putting the children up for adoption is tantamount to kidnapping imo and many others.
Seeking asylum is not a crime in this country, no matter where you are from.
To treat them all as criminals, including the children, is flat out racist and wrong in my eyes.
These kids are going to be severely traumatized by the actions of our govt.

They are not stealing our jobs, destroying the economy or any such thing.
The US has always scapegoated this or that race for the perceived ills of the country...statistically they commit crime at a much lower rate than those born here.
Take a look at the tax giveaway that was passed...
"What share of the tax cuts went to the rich and the poor? The richest 1 percent received 9.3 percent of the total tax cuts, the top 5 percent got 26.5 percent, the top quintile received 52.2 percent and the bottom quintile got 3.3 percent."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlik...rich-get-all-of-trumps-tax-cuts/#139e3dc9f209

We got screwed...not to mention the deficit has exploded by trillions of dollars.
Not just that but...
Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they’re living paycheck to paycheck, according to a 2017 report by employment website CareerBuilder. Women are particularly vulnerable: 81 percent of them report living paycheck to paycheck, compared with 75 percent of men.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/shu...n-5-us-workers-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

That's 4 in 5 Americans...so the job numbers can be low and the stock market can work for those with lots of money invested....but 4 out 5 are struggling to just pay the bills each month.
Not to mention...

"$38,000

The average American now has about $38,000 in personal debt, excluding home mortgages. That's up $1,000 from a year ago, according to Northwestern Mutual's 2018 Planning & Progress Study, which also reports that "fewer people said they carry 'no debt' this year compared to 2017 (23 percent vs. 27 percent)."

Or the steady increase in homelessness the past 3 years alone.
Hardly the amazing economy....I wish it were.

Oh, I forgot...you mentioned that the "blue wave" failed to regain the Senate along with winning back the house majority - well they did not because they were not up for reelection with the House in 2018...we will see what happens in the 2020 elections.
One can only hope that Mitch McConnell is at least ousted.

Take care!
Have a good one my friend!
 
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I'm sorry, I'm several pages behind here and need to catch up. Before I loose my train of thought I wanted to mention that Trump impeachment hearings could have begun years ago. He's been breaking and bending the laws at every stage of the game, mostly because he mistook the position of president to be that of a dictator. The man had no concept of how the US government actually works when he took office. (This could spin off into a side rant here on how we need to vet political candidates, but I'll refrain from it.)

My point in mentioning this is that the house sat on their thumbs all this time waiting to see if the FBI would take the burden off of them and magically rid them of Trump. In typical corrupt political fashion each individual representative, looking our for his and herself, thought it best to remain on the sidelines as a spectator rather than dive in and get it done. They only chose to get serious about it when it mentioned that Trump was abusing his power to investigate a fellow politician's family. They totally ignored all the times Trump has attempted to force actions and political gains that judges have had to step in and stop. Each and every one of those could have been a basis for starting the impeachment process, but they saw nothing in it for themselves or their own agendas.

There are no clean politicians, remember that.
 
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I was operating under the impression that the separation was taking place during initial screening not during detainment. Seems like there needs to be some serious reform to the detention facilities: more personnel, more background checks, better facilities and better oversight. I know given that this is a somewhat temporary crisis that the taxpayers may not want to break the bank spending on this, but it's necessary.
I read it like you're challenging me to come up with a better solution to the problem (Trump created then had to go back and try to undo.) To me, it's pretty simple actually. Don't separate families. Which is what the policy was before Trump was elected and enacted his zero tolerance policy. It's not like the US was incapable of handling traffickers before Trump. Not like agents didn't have authority to look into anyone suspicious.
Well if you really want to know what I mean you can just ask, I'm not going to call you a stupid poopy face or something harsh like that just for asking for clarification....

... Okay maybe if you catch me in a bad mood
 



 
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Trump hires the guy who defended OJ and Jeffery Epstein...a very clear hypocrite with opinions up for sale.
 
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I think that whether you are a democrat or a republican you should be interested in hearing witnesses for the senate trial. Why would you not want more information? Republicans don't want to hear the witnesses that Trump blocked. They don't want access to documents Democrats suspect might incriminate Trump. If he's innocent let the evidence show that! It's especially interesting that John Bolton has volunteered to be subpoenaed for the senate hearing. I'd like to hear what he has to say... Even if he ends up clearing Trump!

You would think that if Trump was innocent he'd be OK with members of his admin testifying for him but he's not. They can either clear him or incriminate him.
 
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I think that whether you are a democrat or a republican you should be interested in hearing witnesses for the senate trial. Why would you not want more information? Republicans don't want to hear the witnesses that Trump blocked. They don't want access to documents Democrats think would incriminate Trump. If he's innocent let the evidence show that! It's especially interesting that John Bolton has volunteered to be subpoenaed for the senate senate hearing. I'd like to hear what he has to say... Even if he ends up clearing Trump!

You would think that if Trump was innocent he'd be OK with members of his admin testifying for him but he's not. They can either clear him or incriminate him.
It's tantamount to cramming their eyes shut, fingers in ears, going, "Lalalalala, I can't hear or see anything!".
They were barely able to admit the house evidence.

"Less than a day after releasing his rules proposal and drawing outrage from Democrats, Mr. McConnell submitted to the Senate a modified version with two significant changes. The most notable was a provision to automatically enter evidence collected during the House impeachment inquiry into the trial record. The earlier version of Mr. McConnell’s proposal would have put the decision of whether to admit the House evidence to a Senate vote."

If the whole thing isn't a bunch of BS then idk...
Mitch and a bunch of his pals have already admitted they will not be impartial and will in fact coordinate with the WH and Trump's defense team.
I hope this suppression of the truth all blows up in their faces.
Not to mention members of Trump's "defense team" are material witnesses and participated in covering up the evidence and obstructing it's release.
What a sad day in Murica.
 
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If only any of them were as reasonable to at least consider the evidence.... But the fact is that 21 of them aren't even capable enough of feigning professionalism to remain in their seats for the hearing. The rules do not apply to Republicans.

Who is even moderate among them anymore?
 
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So the rules do not apply to anyone. When Warren or whoever gets in there, and by God she will, she should ignore the norms and go after restructuring this nation to combat climate change, institute universal health care and tax the fuck out of the one percent. If that means staking the SCOTUS or whatever who gives a flying fucking shit.