[PUG] - The "English Only" Movement | INFJ Forum

[PUG] The "English Only" Movement

bamf

Is Watching You
Retired Staff
Apr 9, 2009
10,786
1,952
453
MBTI
Meh
Enneagram
Meh
For those who are informed on the topic, I am curious as to your thoughts on the English only movement. Not to be confused with people who believe that all kids should be taught English in the public schools of America, but rather the idea that all government documents, all health/food/safety documents, all items (aka pretty much everything publicly accessible) should be provided only in English. Part of the movement would be to get ride of bilingual programs in schools, ELL classrooms that give English Language Learning students years to learn the language (and instead adopt a system similar to California's where kids are given one year to learn English before being thrown into the "normal" classroom) and make English the official language of the United States?

What say you? I'm curious.

(also, I made this a PUG thread so feel free to debate, but if this turns personal and stops focusing on the opening post I will close the thread)
 
I'm not sure i agree that all documents should be written in English only, because bilingual proficiency is an asset in a globalized world. I think we seriously underestimate how difficult it is to learn a different language, especially if you're living in a part of the world where that language is reinforced as the dominant language of communication from birth to whenever, but you've not received any formal education in the language much less hear it spoken in your own country. If you're an adult who migrated to an English speaking country and has never had the chance to hear English being spoken regularly, it's going to be very difficult to simply learn a few English phrases and suddenly speak the language fluently. It will take a while, and having documents available in the language will at least help with the transition from one language to the other to help with comprehension. Not sure how reasonable it would be to expect someone to read a document - especially legal and other more technical, or jargon filled documents in a subject which is not a fluent first language.
 
Last edited:
I love how America is violating its own value system.
 
Torn; I've actually had to ask for an english speaker at the occasional fast food drive through here in the D.C. region... that should NOT happen. English should be the official language and it should be taught to anyone who expects to be a functional citizen... on the other hand, we shouldn't be so xenophobic a nation that we don't learn and/or welcome other languages as well. Ne?
 
I'm not sure i agree that all documents should be written in English only, because i think bilingual proficiency is an asset in a globalized world. I think we seriously underestimate how difficult it is to learn a different language, especially if you're living a part of the world where that language is reinforced as the dominant language of communication from birth to whenever. If you're an adult who migrated to an English speaking country and has never had the chance to hear English being spoken regularly, it's going to be very difficult to simply learn a few English phrases and suddenly speak the language fluently. It will take a while, and having documents available in the language will at least help with the transition from one language to the other by making it available.
Yeah, and one thing I find peculiar is that it almost is like setting the kids up to fail (with only one year of ESL instruction) Kids, when first learning to speak in their first language, take a couple years to chose to talk (there is evidence that they understand language before using it) and it then takes them years to master conversational communication, let alone academic language. I don't know how anyone can reasonably expect one to have a handle on not only conversational English, but also academic English, in just one year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
Yeah, and one thing I find peculiar is that it almost is like setting the kids up to fail (with only one year of ESL instruction) Kids, when first learning to speak in their first language, take a couple years to chose to talk (there is evidence that they understand language before using it) and it then takes them years to master conversational communication, let alone academic language. I don't know how anyone can reasonably expect one to have a handle on not only conversational English, but also academic English, in just one year.

The kids are the best off in this scenario, since they are built to learn... it's the parents who are most likely to be seriously handicapped operating in an english-only society. I've known more examples than I can count where the immigrant parents are sorta-kinda-barely speaking english and you have to ask and ask and ask for them to repeat themselves while their kids spoke both languages fluently and without discernible accents. Just a practical observation.
 
The kids are the best off in this scenario, since they are built to learn... it's the parents who are most likely to be seriously handicapped operating in an english-only society. I've known more examples than I can count where the immigrant parents are sorta-kinda-barely speaking english and you have to ask and ask and ask for them to repeat themselves while their kids spoke both languages fluently and without discernible accents. Just a practical observation.
Interestingly enough though, adults are cognitively better prepared to learn and understand a language. Adult immigrants create and maintain a larger lexicon faster than kids do, and they also understand language "rules" and usage better. Where kids excel over adults is developing an acceptable accent. At birth, children are able to make all of the sounds heard in every language spoken in the world, but as they age and are accustomed to hearing only certain languages, that part of the brain changes to focus on the sounds used in their language(s). That's why children often times are able to speak "perfect" English, when the parents cannot. As we age, we lose more and more of the ability to make sounds not natural in our language.

Take Spanish for example. All young kids (without a speech impediment) can make the 'rolling r' sound common to Spanish, but many adults that are learning Spanish have trouble with it, if they ever even can.

Adults also have the fear of being "wrong" when using language. To be corrected or constantly asked to repeat one-self is embarrassing. Kids are generally immune to such a thing. Error is a big part of language development, but because of social stigmas adults are less likely to practice a second language in the company of a native speaker out of fear.
 
Last edited:
Error is a big part of language development, but because of social stigmas adults are less likely to practice a second language in the company of a native speaker out of fear.

This^^^ One of the biggest obstacles to language learning is fear that we'll be criticized or judged if words or phrases are pronounced, not incorrectly, but not according to the norm.
 
Last edited:
Having only english is a diservice to everyone who is here (for what ever reasons). While english is the prodominant language in the US, we do have to recognize that there is a signifgant minority of languages that are spoken here as well. Having only english is not going to encourage non-speakers to learn the language. A large motivation behind this movement has to do with anti-immigration folks. I think a much better fix would to have a language proficancy "test" of sorts before you can become a citizen here. I think every country throughout the world should require that for at least one of it's native spoken languages.

You also have to consider, there are people who vacation here, or come for long stays. They deserve hospitallity and help. We get that sort of treatment when we go to other countries. Most of the world has several different languages for their lables and documents. It's simply unfair and selfish to have only english. I wouldn't be surprised if that ideas was spawned out of some sort of spite.
 
Aye; I'm certainly not suggesting english-only; just... be prepared to learn english if you are going to move to an english speaking country, you know? They expect similar pretty much everywhere else in the world, so why do english speaking countries have to bend where others will not? Never particularly understood that part... then again, so many of these places are teaching english anyways; so there is that. Still, they actually HAVE official languages with the USoA does not. Kinda odd.
 
In regards to [MENTION=1009]mf[/MENTION] , i'm not certain you are wrong... maybe just incomplete. There is far too much biological evidence kicking around suggesting that up until the point where the brain stops growing (11-15 years old, depending on individual), it's an incredible sponge and is not just learning, but learning HOW to learn (and WHAT best to learn.) After that point it continues to learn, but mostly along the paths of least resistance (in reference to the aforementioned 'what to learn.') A child taught multiple languages early on can continue to do so with remarkable ease throughout their life while a child who only learns one prior to this point will struggle with and more often than not give up on learning the second simply because they hadn't "established" that particular pathway.

I tend to lean in the direction of this body of science most specifically because I have half a dozen examples of it in my own family, and twice as many again among school-time acquaintances, and without fail, every example follows this same pattern... the adults who arrived late in life NEVER caught up in english while their children ALWAYS mastered it flawlessly. It's a tad more than anecdotal for me. *shrug* Again, it's a body of observation you can take or leave as you see fit.
 
Last edited:
This is America. You come to our country, you learn our language. Our language is English. If I were to move to China permanently, for example, I'd be expected to learn Chinese. If I was visiting, I'd be expected to maybe know a few phrases, but it'd be understandable if I couldn't speak Chinese well. If I moved to China permanently and didn't speak Chinese other than a few phrases, they'd expect me to learn Chinese. They wouldn't just allow me to speak English all day and demand everyone speak to me in English. It's their country. I'd learn their language.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndigoSensor
There are many countries where children grow up learning to speak and use two, three, or even four different languages...Why not the US? Why restrict ourselves to English when there are countless benefits in learning multiple languages from birth?
 
This is America. You come to our country, you learn our language. Our language is English. If I were to move to China permanently, for example, I'd be expected to learn Chinese. If I was visiting, I'd be expected to maybe know a few phrases, but it'd be understandable if I couldn't speak Chinese well. If I moved to China permanently and didn't speak Chinese other than a few phrases, they'd expect me to learn Chinese. They wouldn't just allow me to speak English all day and demand everyone speak to me in English. It's their country. I'd learn their language.
It isn't though we have no official language...

Also this country wasn't solely English...

New York was a Dutch colony called New Amsterdam, New Orleans was a French colony... Detroit was a French fort. We are a nation built by immigrants from many different backgrounds. Chinatown is Chinatown because it is a haven for those in the country who don't know English but need to survive. It is in their best interest to be able to speak English but people can live without learning the language.

Personally I would mandate the learning of three(min) languages. Its damn useful.
 
Aye; I'm certainly not suggesting english-only; just... be prepared to learn english if you are going to move to an english speaking country, you know? They expect similar pretty much everywhere else in the world, so why do english speaking countries have to bend where others will not? Never particularly understood that part... then again, so many of these places are teaching english anyways; so there is that. Still, they actually HAVE official languages with the USoA does not. Kinda odd.
Oh, I really don't want people to believe that I think people should get away with not learning English (and I'm not saying that's what you saw me saying) I agree that people should learn English in America if only for the sole reason that it is extremely important to be economically and socially successful. Standard English is taught around the globe because of the way the West controls the world economy, and the way America affects the West.

This is America. You come to our country, you learn our language. Our language is English. If I were to move to China permanently, for example, I'd be expected to learn Chinese. If I was visiting, I'd be expected to maybe know a few phrases, but it'd be understandable if I couldn't speak Chinese well. If I moved to China permanently and didn't speak Chinese other than a few phrases, they'd expect me to learn Chinese. They wouldn't just allow me to speak English all day and demand everyone speak to me in English. It's their country. I'd learn their language.
But as Kav pointed out, our language isn't English. The official language of Hawaii is Hawaiin, Puerto Rico's are Spanish and English. Should we make the US's English the state and territory would be in a disharmonious position. Also, the vast majority of immigrants in the United States want to learn English because they know just how important it is to learn. The thing is the resources simply are not there to educate all of these people. Programs are cut, countless immigrants are turned away from existing programs because they are overcrowded, and people are constantly criticized for 'wrong' English even as they are trying to learn.

It's not that these people are unwilling to learn (according to my Linguistics prof somewhere between 90-95% of immigrants want to take ESL classes) it's that programs are inaccessible, and in the mean time if everything is in English they will never have a chance to learn. If they can't drive, they can't work. If citizens that don't speak English can't vote, how is that constitutionally right? (when they cannot read already confusing ballots and props) Second generations immigrant children are losing their ability to speak their native tongue because they are never able to practice it, and are even ashamed of their heritage.

It's not about losing America or enabling others to not speak English, it's that we aren't allowing them to learn, and then chastise them for not doing so. We force kids to learn English in a year (impossible) and then fail school, and even make things such as cultural studies illegal (Arizona with immigration bill)

In regards to @mf , i'm not certain you are wrong... maybe just incomplete. There is far too much biological evidence kicking around suggesting that up until the point where the brain stops growing (11-15 years old, depending on individual), it's an incredible sponge and is not just learning, but learning HOW to learn (and WHAT best to learn.) After that point it continues to learn, but mostly along the paths of least resistance (in reference to the aforementioned 'what to learn.') A child taught multiple languages early on can continue to do so with remarkable ease throughout their life while a child who only learns one prior to this point will struggle with and more often than not give up on learning the second simply because they hadn't "established" that particular pathway.

I tend to lean in the direction of this body of science most specifically because I have half a dozen examples of it in my own family, and twice as many again among school-time acquaintances, and without fail, every example follows this same pattern... the adults who arrived late in life NEVER caught up in english while their children ALWAYS mastered it flawlessly. It's a tad more than anecdotal for me. *shrug* Again, it's a body of observation you can take or leave as you see fit.
I definitely think that you are right that children have an easier time learning language (and I think it's because of what I said before about motor skills and losing the sound ability with aging) but there is a big difference between conversational English and academic English.

I agree that children pick up conversation English quicker, but I stand by what I said earlier (and so does linguistic research) that adults understand language quicker, but due to motor skills have a hard time with conversational English. Think of professors from foreign countries. Their speaking can at times be 'god-awful' but written language is a different story. In their writing they have the ability to be much more academically correct than a child, and even profound in their writing. An adult learning language for a year has a better grasp on concepts and rules than a child which is evident through writing (assuming both children and adults have the same time to practice and learn the language) but generally lag greatly in pronunciation and conversation.
 
let the states decide, if the a particular state thinks that it's major language vastly outnumber the population allow them to decide on a singular state language or multiple languages.
 
This is incredibly selfish.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bamf