Specific vs. General Education | INFJ Forum

Specific vs. General Education

Gaze

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For all college folk and beyond, do you think general education is still valuable for the college graduate today?


Do you think more specific or specialized education in a particular field or area should dominate the college curriculum from the beginning rather than waiting until the second or third year of college?


Do you think someone who is more specialized in one particular field, with limited knowledge, awareness, or understanding in other areas, is more effective than those who have a more general education?


What fields of study or programs do you think are too general?

What fields or study or programs do you think are too specific
 
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I think a general education is a wonderful thing for each student to have. I think it's a disservice to the learner to narrow what you learn down to one area, and neglect all others.

With that said, I do think that it's important to get a very solid education in your core of study, as well. I think America should pick up a tip from the Europeans and pick up an extra year of high school, both for maturity purposes and to get more of a general education before going off to college.

I really enjoyed the program that I was in (theatre) and I could have chosen a conservatory, rather than a liberal arts school where there were general education requirements... but I thought it was important for me, as an artist, to learn about the world, and other subjects, rather than just learning about art.

I see value in both... but I think having a general understanding of a lot of things helps you out in life, as well as whatever you are trying to focus on.
 
College education has departed SO MUCH from real life that it isn't very applicable - unless you get one of those professors who makes it applicable. If it was applicable, then I think very general and basic overview of various topics would be nice... but not necessary. Anyway, the way it's done now is just too much! College should be about learning for the field you want to go into. If you buy a set of DVDs to learn how to play a guitar, it shouldn't have two of the five discs teaching you how to play various other instruments too.
 
College education has departed SO MUCH from real life that it isn't very applicable - unless you get one of those professors who makes it applicable. If it was applicable, then I think very general and basic overview of various topics would be nice... but not necessary. Anyway, the way it's done now is just too much! College should be about learning for the field you want to go into. If you buy a set of DVDs to learn how to play a guitar, it shouldn't have two of the five discs teaching you how to play various other instruments too.

I do agree with that, entirely.

I think they need to re-vamp the education system altogether... but I think a well-done general education is important. Whether that's acquired before college or during.
 
I think general education is very valuable. Remember what higher education used to be about? Learning the classics so that you have a greater understanding of life as a whole and eventually become a better person because of it. A specific education is one-dementional.

My psych teacher says it best, "You go to college to become a conscious human being".
 
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If you buy a set of DVDs to learn how to play a guitar, it shouldn't have two of the five discs teaching you how to play various other instruments too.

If you learn more than the guitar, you become better at music as a whole (yeah, that's a bitchin' metaphor). Same with college and life. The more dimensions you have, the more you can take into account when solving a problem. I think the point is to make you a better human.
 
I do agree with that, entirely.

I think they need to re-vamp the education system altogether... but I think a well-done general education is important. Whether that's acquired before college or during.

[MENTION=3691]CorLeonis[/MENTION], would you then say that general education should come before college? Do you think, then, that high school should be more responsible for stronger development of general education skills, and college for more specialized education?
 
My psych teacher says it best, "You go to college to become a conscious human being".

[MENTION=3545]bickelz[/MENTION], but conscious about what? If what you're being made more aware or conscious of isn't practical or applicable in your everday life, although interesting and well rounded, then are you really experience sound consciousness of the world around you?
 
Another question:

Would anyone argue that college education should have a less humanistic focus - less social and human sciences, and more science and math? For example, shouldn't finance and economics be part of the core foundation of general education curriculum, and not just an option as specialized majors?
 
@CorLeonis, would you then say that general education should come before college? Do you think, then, that high school should be more responsible for stronger development of general education skills, and college for more specialized education?

If high school did a sufficient job, I think that it would be fabulous for high school to be general, and college to be specific and focused (though I still think taking classes outside of your major is important, though not necessarily in the prescribed formula, if that makes sense). Not only for the content, but also to connect with people that are not studying the same thing as you, and getting different views on the world and life in general. That, of course, is from my experience in a program where you take every one of your core classes with the same 20 people.

But, as it is, the college general education is trying to pick up the slack where high school (middle school, etc.) has failed. And, quite horrendously in many cases. Not that college always does a great job, either.

I have a lot of issues with the way the education system is run, now. As well as the massive apathy that Americans seem to have now-a-days about everything, from education, to the well-being of others, to the big issues in the world. But, as far as education right now, I would say (to anyone that is thinking about college, applying, etc.) to really know themselves and examine if they think they do have enough of a basis to dive face-forward into one subject, never to look back. So many students go through 4+ years of college, either general or specific, only to realize that their chosen career isn't really what they want, and end up in an entirely different field. With a general education, you're better prepared for a switch like that, while with a specific education, you may find it harder.
 
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The purpose of a college education is to learn critical thinking and writing. It almost doesn't matter what you major in so long as it is rigorous and intellectually demanding. Unfortunately, not all university courses are sufficiently challenging nor all professors strongly committed to the art of teaching. There is plenty of time to specialize in graduate school.
 
Another question:

Would anyone argue that college education should have a less humanistic focus - less social and human sciences, and more science and math? For example, shouldn't finance and economics be part of the core foundation of general education curriculum, and not just an option as specialized majors?

That's a very interesting question. The college I went to, they were even. You had to take equal amounts of math/science and english/humanities.

Are most colleges pushing the humanities? I would have thought it was the other way around, but I haven't done any research on what other colleges are pushing as a general education.
 
I think having a couple survey and humanities courses the freshman year is good. Students switch majors all the time. I went from thinking music education, to communications, to telecommunications, to peace and justice studies, just to finally settle in Lit/history/education. Having time to explore options of what is available is a good thing for people spending thousands and thousands of dollars a year to get a piece of paper.

That being said, some universities (like my own for example) take it too far requiring up to 40 credits in gen-ed courses (out of the 120 needed to graduate in most programs) I'd like to see that number cut in half, thus allowing students more choices when it comes to "electives" and what not.
 
@bickelz, but conscious about what? If what you're being made more aware or conscious of isn't practical or applicable in your everday life, although interesting and well rounded, then are you really experience sound consciousness of the world around you?

Well, this isn't something that I have said, it's just what my 64 year old Swedish psych 101 teacher says. I think what she meant by it was that we go through life as unconscious or people that live by what our subconscious tells us to do. I think she means that we need to become more aware or conscious about every input in our lives. Do things like question authority, ect.
 
2 views, one for just me and one for the masses:

Me: I think general education should be pushed less. Sure, some people may benefit from being forced to learn about things that don't interest them at a time when they need to be stimulated with their chosen field, but some of us won't put our whole ass into it just because it's mandatory. Maybe I'm just too much of a rebel, but when I'm paying for my own classes and having to get my work schedule to adjust to my course load, I'll be a lot less convincing/passionate when asking my boss to let me leave early 2 days a week for a humanities class when I really want to take more science courses... Just sayin.

Masses: From a big picture standpoint with my own personal experience aside, I think it's good to expose young adults to topics that may seep into their consciousness and round them out sooner than later. I know more than one person who is very dialed-in to their chosen profession and breezed through gen ed classes, and their world-view is at times lacking... So take your specialized courses at your own pace, but at least we know anyone walking around with a degree has at least had a chance to take in the big picture. Whether they paid attention is a different matter.
 
I think a general education is best, with exposure to many fields and connections drawn between them.

I think added to that general foundation, education should more strongly incorporate apprenticeship.

So in my envisioning of an ideal education of sorts, there would be wide exposure to many fields of study and thought with a comprehensive focus that treats them as interrelated ways of approaching the same topic, but then beyond that there would be an educational period that would be interpersonal and on-the-job training. It would be practical experience in a specific field to be pursued that would be more about learning than about producing. Then there would be a transition from that training work period to a productive work period.

I think our current educational culture is missing that apprenticeship step and that is why issues of specific education come up. I don't think it's particularly effective in training for a specific field and it comes at the cost of a foundational general education that is great support for any endeavor. I think the specificity should come in the apprenticeship phase.

Well, I think I answered that question about 4 times over saying the same thing in different ways, but I've never tried to articulate that before.

Here's the summary of what I would value educationally:

General education--->specific apprenticeship--->productive worklife
 
I'm an engineer with more than thirty years of experience. Nothing could be more "specific" than an engineering education. Yet, speaking as one who did very well both in engineering school and as a practicing engineer, I found that what I learned in engineering school was only coincidentally related to what I have been doing for the past thirty years or so. Here are a few of the important things that I did not learn in school:

1. Synthesis. The engineering process is one of design systems that work well through out the complete range of specified conditions and environments of intended use. Learning to design complex systems that work well on the bench is one thing. Designing them for a broad range of operation is another. Some people who were good students and good at analysis weren't able to design themselves out of a box. But, synthesis is a general ability, and idea generation and systems design is important in all fields, whether you're designing a management system for an HMO, developing a curriculum for a high school course, or planning an exercise gym.

2. Critical thinking. What do the data say and what can one logically conclude from the data? Lack of critical thinking is rife. Just look at simplistic political groups that have all the "answers" on both the right and left.

3. Learning to be comfortable in handling and thinking about complexity and complex systems. Regardless of your specific field, complexity is reality, so you'd better get used to it.

4. Writing. Most engineers I've encountered are poor writers, which is a problem because writing is a critically important part of an engineering career. We write specifications, user manuals, grant proposals, memos, etc. But, writing is important for everyone. Start with spelling, punctuation, grammar, move on to style and graduate to a complete, cogent, coherent draft. Get The Elements of Style. Unless you're careful, writing on the web is typically detrimental to your style.

5. The very practical and economical way things are done in the "real world." I remember, when I began my first job, I started working on a project using what I had learned in school. I was quickly informed that "we don't do it that way here because it would take forever and cost too much. Here's how we do it."

So, even if you think that your "specific" education is preparing you for a secure, safe career, think otherwise. Most of what you learn in school isn't the way things are done outside of school and, what is, will soon be obsolete (as most of your professors already are). With a college or university degree, however, you have the "ticket" (i.e., credentials) to enter a situation where your real learning will begin. You will continue to learn throughout your career particularly if you have "general" skills.

So, the best things you can do are: 1. learn to think; 2. learn to write; 3. learn to learn.
 
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