Random Religious Thoughts

[Wyote]

To add to everything you've said-
Very often bad things occur when people fully believe they are doing good/positive things
@Fruiteloop

 

[QuickTwist]

@Fruiteloop, that's just Western secularism, not Christianity. Christianity does not have this kind of extreme individualism that it is all about you and your "true self." This kind of thought is due to liberalism, not orthodox Christianity. Its roots are in the rise of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution. In a sense, it is making yourself a little g god.

Real Christianity is about using your gifts to serve others, not a lesson on how you can "love yourself" to the Nth degree.

 

[QuickTwist]

@Fruiteloop, that's just Western secularism, not Christianity. Christianity does not have this kind of extreme individualism that it is all about you and your "true self." This kind of thought is due to liberalism, not orthodox Christianity. Its roots are in the rise of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution. In a sense, it is making yourself a little g god.

Real Christianity is about using your gifts to serve others, not a lesson on how you can "love yourself" to the Nth degree.

Point being, know where your beliefs come from, cuz they did not originate from you.

 

[QuickTwist]

To add to everything you've said-
Very often bad things occur when people fully believe they are doing good/positive things
@Fruiteloop

There is a temptation of bravado and self-righteousness. I agree. Not everything done that the person KNOWS is good is actually evil, though. The prophets KNEW they were speaking the words of God, which is extremely good. But they were right to know that, not wrong about it.

Of course, Christianity is not about shame either, which is something I struggle with a lot. There are times when we can and should use shame to draw someone to repentance, but repentance is always the goal, never shame for the sake of it. However, when repentance happens, it produces a change. As such, the balance is about rightly correcting our behavior, always. Never about wallowing in our sorrow.

 

[Wyote]

I was not speaking about prophets and I did not claim a good to be a bad in any sense.
Though sometimes what a person thinks they know for certain lacks complete information.
I also made no blanket statements so there's no reason to contradict me there.
It is true that very often the road to evil is paved with good intentions.
That's why it has become a popular phrase.
It doesn't state that it is the case all of the time, it acts as a warning.
I am also a proponent of shame in the right contexts. It is an important tool.

 

[QuickTwist]

I also made no blanket statements so there's no reason to contradict me there.

I was not trying to contradict you. I was trying to clarify things more. I did agree with you in the beginning, if you go back and check. I am expanding on the conversation, not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I do think we should try to be truthful without leaving out relevant concepts and ideas.

 

[Wyote]

but I do think we should try to be truthful without leaving out relevant concepts and ideas.

I wasn't leaving anything out

 

[QuickTwist]

I wasn't leaving anything out

"Very often" is not always. I was adding to the times that do not fit the "very often."

 

[Wyote]

"Very often" is not always. I was adding to the times that do not fit the "very often."

It didn't need adding to, because it's not a blanket statement as I said

 

[QuickTwist]

It didn't need adding to, because it's not a blanket statement as I said

Are we against discussion now?

 

[Wyote]

Are we against discussion now?

Yes, bye

 

[QuickTwist]

Yes, bye

I have a suggestion.

Read this section of the thread tomorrow, and if you still think I did something wrong, point it out to me, and I will apologize.

 

[Wyote]

I have a suggesstion.

Read this section of the thread tomorrow, then read it the next day, and the next.
If you don't see what's wrong eventually, just know that I was right all along.

 

[QuickTwist]

I have a suggesstion.

Read this section of the thread tomorrow, then read it the next day, and the next.
If you don't see what's wrong eventually, just know that I was right all along.

You are mad that I pointed out a flaw in what you said. That is how you are perceiving this. Nothing I said is wrong. Nothing I said is not true. You are mad I engaged with your comment without emphatically agreeing with you. I was too spicy, and you took that personally. But nothing I said is not true, and now you are acting bitterly at me.

 

[Wyote]

lol nah I ain't mad and haven't taken anything personally
You have a weird habit of placing feelings and ideas onto other people
I'm uninterested if anything, so please stop trying to assassinate my character now kthxbye

 

[Fruiteloop]

@Fruiteloop, that's just Western secularism, not Christianity. Christianity does not have this kind of extreme individualism that it is all about you and your "true self." This kind of thought is due to liberalism, not orthodox Christianity. Its roots are in the rise of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution. In a sense, it is making yourself a little g god.

Real Christianity is about using your gifts to serve others, not a lesson on how you can "love yourself" to the Nth degree.

Point being, know where your beliefs come from, cuz they did not originate from you.

Well we cannot separate ourselves from the culture we grew up in.

I grew up in not a dictatorship but a constitutional republic where human rights are supposed to be protected.

Having human rights and dignity are not extreme individualism they are normal to me.

It means I do not need to live in fear of authoritarian people trying to take away my dignity.

We could say that because of Christianity that enlightenment ideas came about so human rights is part of Christianity not against it.

It is good to have dignity it is good to have human rights it is good to not live in fear of authoritarian rule.

Somehow you view those things as negative. So what kind of system would you prefer, the opposite?

Serving others doesn't mean we need to degrade ourselves and live in filth or have a negative attitude.

Serving others should be a blessing not a curse.

The fact is that people just are people and they do not need to be humiliated or feel humiliated just for existing.

If anything God wants us to be happy.

 

[QuickTwist]

Somehow you view those things as negative. So what kind of system would you prefer, the opposite?

I view those things as negative? Show me where I inferred that.

Serving others doesn't mean we need to degrade ourselves and live in filth or have a negative attitude.

Where did I infer this?

Serving others should be a blessing not a curse.

A blessing to whom? And where does this idea come from?

The fact is that people just are people and they do not need to be humiliated or feel humiliated just for existing.

Did I say people need to be humiliated for "just existing"?

If anything God wants us to be happy.

I agree, and serving others and getting the attention OFF yourself is the BEST way to be happy. Jesus went to the cross "For the joy set before Him."

 

[Fruiteloop]

Maybe it is because of depression you feel you need to get attention off yourself?

But once depression is gone there is no need.

We can attend to ourselves just as much as we attend to others. Without it being negative.

There need not be this extreme focus of attention on the self.

And there need not be this extreme attention placed on focusing on others.

Its doesn't have to be all or nothing. People that care about themselves can care about others without being selfish.

 

[QuickTwist]

Its doesn't have to be all or nothing. People that care about themselves can care about others without being selfish.

Your position literally is putting all the emphasis on the self.

I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions, but instead led off with an ad hom attack. Why is that?

 

[Fruiteloop]

Your position literally is putting all the emphasis on the self.

I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions, but instead led off with an ad hom attack. Why is that?

what attack?

this is exactly the problem: I am not putting all the emphasis on the self, I said that was extreme

self love is not selfish but for some reason you think it is?

God wants people to not have depression, not hate themselves, not feel bad, because he loves us.