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Questions For INFJs

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by Reon, Jul 11, 2010.

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  1. Reon

    Reon Midnight's Garden

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    Basically, I have a few questions revolving around the INFJ type because of a type me thread on typology forum and I was hoping that a few INFjs could answer the questions for me, thanks in advance!

    1. Fe is known for caring about everyone in it's dominant position. When Fe is under the direction of Ni, does this present a situation in which Fe only cares about a few particular people? Or does Fe, even in an auxiliary position, still feel the need to take care of everyone? As it was explained to me, an INFJ could walk into the room and feel the 'vibe' of everyone, all at one moment (I admit, this was probably exaggerated a bit.
    2. According to typology forum, INFJs handle arguments and confrontations by basically ignoring the issue. Whenever someone violates a value on the INFJ, the INFJ basically does a emotional door slam and also kicks the violator out of his/her life. However, is it possible for an INFJ to get into a verbal altercation/fight and basically stand their ground for themselves, something that's typically seen as "Fi?" Would an INFJ disrupt harmony momentarily to gain it, I suppose, is the question.
    3. Are INFJs who have developed Ti good at contingency plans?
    4. Are Fe and Fi counterproductive towards each other in the INFJ? The way Fe was described to me that seems particular insightful is that Fe seeks external harmony so that it can gain internal harmony and that Fi seeks internal harmony to gain external harmony. If I'm understanding correctly, an INFJ would be more likely to make friends with anyone and maybe slightly portray themselves in a different light to better get along with the group while an INFP would seek their core and then find people who enjoy their interests because it is something they both share.
    And...that's it!
     
  2. Raccoon Love

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    From my point of view, I have noticed a particular type of Fe from the forum. I have to agree on the first one, I think INFJ's although they try to care for everyone, give special attention and care to their ''own group'' or niche, of course I think this is perhaps done unintentionally do the nature of Ni, but I have noticed that from observing this forum.

    I believe the INFJ if they truly passionate about a subject, they are capable of doing so. They might feel restrained due to the nature of Ni to communicate in a way that at times is difficult to understand and therefore the INFJ feels nobody would see their point of view and feel misunderstood. The INFJ seeks harmony among everybody due to the nature of Fe and therefore would prefer to compromise rather then argue.

    I have no idea, but I will imagine so. Ti is good at catching details and systematizing.

    I believe that the INFP is indeed more prone to seek their true group, their identity, while the INFJ can compromise to fit in a long with everybody. The INFP is most likely to take things more personally and therefore flee a group when they find something they find to be wrong.

    That's all I can say..and I'm thinking I am more and more INFP with each passing day based on my own interpretation...
     
    #2 Raccoon Love, Jul 11, 2010
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  3. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    In my case, I feel the need to take care of everyone, but I definitely have a priority for a few close people. 'Everyone' gets a priority based on their need, my capacity to meet it, and their closeness to me. For example, when I see a panhandler who is sincere, I feel the need to help them, but I usually won't unless they really seem like they need my help. One day I saw a panhandler shivering in the freezing cold (like it was 19 degrees) with no coat. I got out of my car and gave him mine. In other words, I feel it, but I don't always do it.

    I think the best way to put it is that I can feel everyone, which causes me to care about most people especially those with a need. If someone doesn't have a need, I'm much less likely to pay attention to them if they are a stranger.

    And yes, I can feel the vibe of everyone all at one moment when I walk in the room, but I get a much clearer picture when I focus on individuals. To this day my 'gaydar' has never been wrong, even with people who are never assumed to be gay, even by people with good gaydar. I can just sense it, along with everything else.

    Yes to both. The closer someone is to me, the more leeway they get on the door slam. But, it's not so much a door slam as it is a disappointment and proof of not being on my 'team'. Violating my core values is very similar to betrayal to me. I avoid confrontation whenever possible, be diplomatic as possible if I can't avoid it, but if I have no choice to avoid it and can't be diplomatic, I'm not going to play around because at that point the harmony I'm trying to maintain is gone. In essence the other person just shot the hostage. It's a really bad move against an INFJ to remove the bargaining point that keeps us from taking the kid gloves off, because despite our sweet nature we're made of steel under here.

    I'm sure we'd like to think so, but to be honest I highly doubt it. I'm just now beginning to develop my Te, and it's so clear to me that I'm stepping into a realm mentally that I've never been in before. I think most of us plan just far enough to know when we've got something under control and don't plan much further than that. There are too many variables, and we're really good at coming up with a new plan when needed. This allows us to wing it, and get away with not forming additional contingencies. As long as we've got a plan, we're good. I really think this has a lot to do with how Fe is focused on how things 'should' be. Once we know how we feel it should be, the rest is superfluous.

    I can see your point here, but as someone with high Fe and Fi, it really seems that these two things compliment each other most of the time. I've found that my Fe and Fi give me the ability to both make friends with anyone, but also find people who share my core values and interests. I use Fe first, and then Fi to narrow the people I meet down into whether or not they can really be close to me, and thus fulfill my Fe need for intimate connections and oneness with others. (Though obviously, there's a lot of Ni in this process too). The best part of having strong Fi is being able to stick to my guns when it's really important, as well as giving me the ability to stand up for myself when I need to.

    Every now and then there is a real conflict of interest when inner harmony and external harmony are mutually exclusive. Like for instance, the group wants the individual to do something that would compromise their principles. At those points, Fe and Fi are a real pain in the ass.

    However, most often Fi is a problem for me not when it's in myself, but when it is in someone else and their self focus over harmony approach creates a very serious lack of harmony. That makes me just plain nuts sometimes.
     
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  4. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    1. It depends on how we used Ni + Fe, I think. Both can used in...how should I say it, different purpose, which I would define as gathering (as in, data gathering) and expressing.
    Ni (gathering) + Fe (expressing) = "Hmm, how about this?" >> "What would others said? How could I help others? How could it benefit / disturb others?"
    Fe (gathering) + Ni (expressing) = "They seem troubled" >> "I wonder what happened.. or what could I do for them.."
    the second point you described is..probably Fe as gathering tool, then Ni + Ti processing what happened.

    2. 2 cases; either they have high Fi by themselves (which would make them somewhat prone to being INFP, which when combined to Fe by itself, could stand at themselves), or their Fe is flipped (...in a shadowlike way) which makes them very irritable and confrontational, but in a bad way.

    3. I think yes; it could work by considering and eliminating each possibilities. (...or is it Ne?)

    4. Yes, personally speaking. Because the need to please oneself would be different with the need to please others.
    But that doesn't mean it can't be productive. Empathizing and sympathizing is far more easy when you know both how you feel and how to express it, for example. Also well-developed Fi + Fe = knowing what they want and how to express it / defend it for, with, and against people.
     
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  5. Inquisitive

    Inquisitive Steering By The Stars

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    Just copy and paste pretty much everything VH said here.

    Oh, and I really like his
     
  6. OP
    Reon

    Reon Midnight's Garden

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    I tend to think that's just being human. I know a particularly nasty stereotype stated by INFPs who were slighted by an INFJ in a relationship that had to deal with INFJs seeming to 'love' everyone. Completely equally.

    I see, I agree for the most part.


    I see, I see. That's something I'm not really familiar with IIRC. I don't think I need to take care of everyone, just the people that I can help and have a interest in.
    Interesting. Can you explain this in more detail or is it really just as simple as it sounds? Also, how can you determine if someone has a need? For example, if you see someone that is sad, how exactly do your discern if she's going to be okay in the long run (perhaps she got grounded or something) or if she needs help (Her father just died)

    Interesting. By diplomatic you mean being honest with a person but not in a way that would insult them, yes?
    Ah, I see. That's an unique way of viewing it. Since you are developing your Te, what is it like to use it with your other more natural functions? Specifically Te and Fe, can you tell when you are using one or the other and in the long run, what's the differences in the choices that you make using each function.

    Hmm. Do you find yourself compromising yourself more with Fe for the group or sticking to your values (Fi)

    I see, thanks for clearing that up!
    Can you be confrontational in a "good" way? Standing up for yourself, not compromising for the group, etc?
    3. I think that's Ti, doesn't sound like Ne. Ne considers all the possibilities and then uses Ti to sort through them.

    4. Interesting. So Fi wants to please self and is the values and morals of the individual and Fe is more the expression?
     
  7. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    4) Fi and Fe has more facets than that, some I don't know yet (and others have described beautifully), but the facet I'm talking about now is about expressing and receiving in general.
    2) as for comparison,
    High Fi + Low Fe = Independent, textbook definition of rebellious, but may come off as needy / whiny (in other words, they know what they want, but not how to make people understand)
    Low Fi + High Fe = Caring, understanding people, but may come off as too subservient. Too serving. Or what you said as "loving everyone. Equally" (in other words, know how to be kind, but not 'what they want.' Or to put it bluntly, when to stop.)

    Of course, I think to a point, good balance of this it's what generally accepted as best. And other functions could function to temper Fi and Fe by itself; for example, for INFJs, Ni would temper Fe in similar way as Fi, only more goal-focused. "What are they saying and/or Is there something I can do about it?" instead of "What do I feel about them / their reactions?". In similar ways; Ne can temper Fi in a calmer way, "How to express my needs?" instead of "I want to express this."

    Fe + Fi is a tricky combination; worst case, they're going to be whiny and a wimp at a same time. But VH described the best case too.

    Agreed. I personally think Ne is like, "how about this? This one? This possibility? This?" And Ti's like "no. Not this. Not this one. Not this one. Maybe this." But I may be horribly wrong .___.
     
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  8. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Yes, this is consistent with the INTJs I know. You guys are surprisingly benevolent, but always practical about it. One of the greatest ways INTJs can help people is by offering practical solutions to others. I know this has helped me tremendously over the years, as I don't have much of the Te practicality (even though I had always considered myself practical. Turns out I am much more Ti logical than practical, the the difference is very noticeable to me now that I've become so close to three INTJs).

    It is as simple as it sounds, but something that isn't simple for most people to understand. I think this ability truly defines the use of Ni > Fe, and to be honest, when I've tried to explain this to most people they look at me like I'm loony, and I can understand why. In essence I'm telling them that I have a super power.

    Here's how it works as best as I can describe it...

    I am extremely empathic and this ability is involuntary, just like hearing. When I am near someone I can feel their emotions as acutely as if they were my own, but at a distance and distinct from myself. The best analogy would be it is as if they are radiating a complex set of energy or light (though, I do not 'see' anything literally, I feel it). In fact, it is important to note that this ability is not tied to any of my physical senses. I can feel the emotions of people I cannot see or hear. For example, I can feel the emotions of people who sit down behind me in restaurants, even though I never turn to look at them and they make no audible expressions. The closer a person is to me, the more clearly I can sense the 'details' of their emotional state. If I am physically touching someone, the acuity is exponential. At no point do I ever mistake their feelings for my own, so this isn't a sympathetic response. However, knowing that someone is feeling something may cause a reaction in me, but the reaction in me by no means has to be to adopt their emotions. In fact, I very seldom do.

    I've always been able to do this, even before I could speak as a child. I could inherently tell if someone was good or bad. If they were good, I would talk to them from my shopping cart seat. If they were bad, I would shy away. When I was at this age, my mother had a lot of apprehension over my 'talking to strangers'. However, as I got a little older, this ability was proven time and again with the people in her life that I told her were bad people - who always proved me right. By age 10, even my ESTJ mother didn't doubt that I was right about people to an almost mystical degree, even though to this day she still can't wrap her head around how I do this.

    However, when I was younger, I could just as acutely feel people's emotions, but in most cases I had no idea what they meant and had to learn the meaning of what I was feeling if it was an emotion that was foreign to me. For example, I remember being around gay men when I was younger, picking up on the fact that there was something very clearly different in their 'vibes' that I didn't understand and wondering what it was exactly, but had no idea until one of them explained to me that he was gay. From then on, I was armed with the knowledge of what I'd always been able to sense.

    The acuity with which I read / feel people is extreme, but the specific details often require me to know the person very well, and have learned this feeling means this, that feeling means that, in order to almost have a telepathic connection with someone. Note - I do not claim to have anything resembling telepathy. It is a combination of very acute empathy and logic. For example... I can sense when someone is hurting. I can even tell the difference between different kinds of hurt, like the loss of a loved one vs being rejected or snubbed or having a plan fail. But, I cannot tell what it is in relation to unless I know the person and have been able to construct a sense of how their mind works by listening to what they are concerned about while they roll through their emotions, which allows me to then figure out which emotions associate with which thoughts. That's as close to telepathy as I get, and because it's based on association, sometimes I can make some serious mistakes when someone has an emotion that they normally associate with another subject.

    The closer the bond I develop with someone, the longer the distance I can feel the person at. For example, when my wife cheated on me, not only did I feel it, I could feel what she was doing (specific foreplay and sex acts because I knew how she felt when she was performing them with me), when she was doing it (in real time as it was happening) and with who (despite not having any reason to suspect this guy though I can't explain how I knew this because I never met this guy and she never spoke of him), even though I had no logical reason to know (I was at a birthday party with Justin Timberlake - seriously - when all of this happened, so there was a lot of distraction). When she came home and I told her what she did, when, and with whom, she went utterly pale and asked how I knew. I asked her how she could ask me that after being with me for so long. She nodded and admitted everything. I forgave her, because we're all human and these things happen, and she never cheated on me again. Heh, and she frequently commented on how she should have gone to the party with me, because Timberlake showing up was a complete surprise (he is from the Memphis area, and was childhood friends with my friend's husband, and happened to be in town when we had the party).

    When I am in a room full of people, this ability works on everyone at the same time. I can feel all of them. This is why harmony is so important to me. If a crowd is harmonious, I can handle it, no matter the size. If the crowd is chaotic, even small numbers overload me quickly. To go back to the hearing analogy, if 100,000 people are all singing the same song, it's beautiful even if powerful. If 10 people are singing different songs at the same time, it's terrible. And this is really a good way to imagine it, everyone singing a song. The more harmonious the songs are, the better it feels.

    Yes. Whenever possible, I try not to insult when speaking the truth. Sometimes it's unavoidable, and in those situations I often still speak the truth in as uninsulting a manner as I can muster, but I will speak the truth if need be.

    I can absolutely tell. Fe is a clear sense of how things should be... which is often not the reality of the situation. Te is a clear understanding of how things relate... which is often not how it should be. Fe for me is the drive to make things how they should be, while Te is the capacity to take advantage of how things actually are. Fe forms a master plan and adapts as variables are thrown at it. For example, I feel that this has to be a certain way. I will make it that way, despite whatever obstacles arise, and will overcome them and stick to my original vision with as little alteration to this goal as possible, because it is an emotionally based drive. As I'm learning Te, I'm finding that goals are much less definitive and can be altered much more and still achieve the most important parts of the intent. Certain elements can be sacrificed to allow for greater efficiency, and this understanding has led me to conceive of contingencies. If I know in advance that everything is relative, and I'm willing to let go of whatever I have to, I can then make plans to cover these other possibilities.

    For me, Fe is like a very direct force that pushes head on toward whatever it has to accomplish. Barriers and obstacles are overcome with sheer brute force of will, sometimes when a more efficient route is patently obvious to everyone. Fe will only circumvent an obstacle when it cannot surmount it, and when it does, it will immediately correct its course upon circumventing... staying on a straight line of focus to the goal as much as possible. This seems to be the classic use of Fe defaulting to Ti for leverage when Fe can't solve the problem, then back to Fe as soon as the problem is solved.

    Te is allowing me this amazing ability to see the obstacles, the path, the battlefield, and many other factors. Rather than just using Fe to barrel headlong toward my goal and occasionally sidestepping with Ti, I'm now able to plot a series of courses and even consider using the obstacles to my advantage in the process. I'm clearly not a master of this approach, but I'm gaining skill with it and it's proving to be extremely valuable. I now find myself seeking a goal, looking at the alternative routes before I begin, and keep them in mind when I need to leverage around an obstacle. In essence, Te is giving me the inclination to cover my moves - to use a chess term - something I have always had a lot of difficulty with.

    I hope that makes sense. I'm still learning Te, and it is definitely subjugate to my Fe and my Ti, which seems to be looking at it primarily for more leverage... but every now and then my Fe will skip directly to Te and consider changing the goals entirely, and it certainly is allowing me to be more flexible.

    It depends on the situation, but I am more inclined to compromise and regret it than stick to my values - in direct proportion to how close I am with the people involved. For example, I am almost not able to say no to people I love, even if the requests are unreasonable (but I may resent them for taking advantage of me, especially if it becomes clear that they are deliberately taking advantage of me rather than just operating on the fact that I'll accommodate). But, while it is difficult for me to say no to strangers if the request is reasonable, I can do it if it is unreasonable (had to learn this skill... until I did, I was a master of dodge and evade tactics).

    I've noticed that my INTJ friends are much better at sticking to their guns when they are in a situation that calls for a choice in harmony vs personal values... sometimes to a degree that I find offensive if they are willing to sacrifice harmony entirely for something that is not even close to equitable. For example, One of my INTJ friends was venting to me, and I was listening to every word. However, her Se is not so good (as I've noticed that INFJs tend to have better Se than INTJs... or at least manifest it a little differently), and she was developing a very long ash on her cigarette that was about to fall into her drink. When I pointed this out, she quickly ashed it into her drink on purpose and in a rather angry way. Her logic was 'okay this is distracting you from listening to me, I'll make it not a problem, next'. I took it as 'Because I am offended that you would rather try to look out for me and create harmony than pay absolute attention to what I am saying, I will deliberately destroy harmony to punish you!' We had a massive fight over that because her Te saw the situation one way, but my Fe took it another. It was the emotional equivalent of me nudging her foot under the table to keep it from a puddle, and her hauling off and kicking the hell out of me for it. It took a long time for her to understand why I got so mad, even though I was being very clear and specific - most importantly, she still can't understand how acutely I can sense her emotions, so when she had that flash of rage, I felt it very clearly. The problem came from me assuming what that clear flash of rage meant, because I have a lot of trouble thinking in Te and Fi terms, so I make a lot of false assumptions about what it is that I can sense her feeling when her feelings are intense. Harmony just isn't something that she inherently understands or values... her Te is dominant over what little Fe she has and in that instance, she strongly resorted to Fi emotions. I have a lot of trouble seeing how things relate when I'm emotional... because my Fe is dominant over what little Te I have and I resorted to Ti reasoning focusing on the little details that she found irrelevant... even though we were both very much on the same page to begin with... Ni dominance in both of us.
     
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  9. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    Wow. That's very interesting. So Fe can be said as an emotional, but nonetheless very true, drive to go and achieve something? While Te is more of taking advantage of what's there, to fulfill a goal?
    I do agreed. I do kinda feel determined, often times reckless, when I have a vision, a goal, and man do I feel like I will do anything. While people I know with a high Te can be very adaptive with every problem that comes to their life.

    A question, where does stubbornness and opportunism goes in this?
    Oh, yes. I also agreed to this. :) I think INFJ are better at 'agreeing to disagree'?
     
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  10. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Among all the other traits of it, such as us vs them, a perspective of 'shoulds', a desire for harmony, yes.

    Among all the other traits of Te, such as big picture logic, relativism, the ability to coordinate multiple systems, yes.

    Stubbornness seems to be related to the F functions, manifesting differently depending on which is used. Fe is stubborn about how things should be in the world (and how people should be, and their needs getting met). Fi is stubborn about what the individual wants for themselves (even if what they want is a greater good for everyone). Opportunism seems to be related to the T functions, again manifesting differently depending on which is used. Ti is small scale focus and leverage. Te is large scale focus and coordination.

    Depends on how. INFJs are better at letting things go for the sake of harmony and 'allow' others to have differing opinions - choosing to agree to disagree despite not agreeing, while INTJs are better at letting everyone be an individual - accepting that others have their own opinions and that's just the way it is, mostly unaffected by opposing views.
     
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  11. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    I agreed completely.

    Aaah, thanks a lot! That explains my stubbornness. It does sounds like it's a..bad version of Fe or Fi usage....

    Can you give some example about Ti and Te, in this aspect?
    And by any chance, would each (stubbornness vs opportunism) temper, balance, or contradict each other?

    Interesting :) but would that mean INFJ tend to be more affected by opposing views? Seeing how Fe could 'grab' other's viewpoint, and Ti analyzing them and our own viewpoint to affect each other.
     
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  12. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    I think all of these things are independent and not mutually exclusive, so from time to time they're just as likely to work in tandem as they are to oppose each other.


    I think opposing views, yes. However if the other person's views don't directly offend/oppose the INFJs sense of how things should be, then there is a lot of room for harmony, and Fe will usually try to make harmony even if there is none.
     
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  13. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    I saw you on typology Reon I knew that was you immediately, but I decided not to post there since I didnt want to cramp your style. These are good questions though. I will play.

    I had a conversation like this with my friend Dan, Dan is an ENFJ, he is Dominant Fe all the way. We went for a trip to the casino, we both remarked how it was such a depressing place. I noticed for Dan though that the people around us, described as old, dying, smoking, drinking, praying, losing crying and going home broke. So they were not happy obviously, for Dan he could feel that like intense pain as he walked around, feeling horrible for everyone. For me, I was busy thinking about getting us through the Casino to meet up with my brothers and their SO's. I was aware of the same thing Dan was but I didnt feel it mainlined into me the way he did.

    For me Fe tends to focus on 1 to 1 or small groups where it can be engaged, I have to be able to Ni tap into someone and listen and analyze intently for my Fe to work properly, I pay attention to body language, tone of voice, body temperature (i will occasionally tell a joke and touch someone on the wrist to feel) I think internally though Fe for me is much more disconnected like as in my nature. I am not in my environment all the time I am locked away in the control room pulling levers for my arms and legs with 1 hand, and reading a book(s) in the other.

    Interestingly, I spend more time worried about man kind as an abstract concept. As an organism that's whole unto itself, Dan worries about everyone he knows and everyone he doesn't know around him, I tend to worry about a very small number of people and focus on the human race as a whole and what we are doing and how we are evolving.

    I still care, but my feelings aren't quite as intense as his are, i'm much more of an observer at heart when it comes to empathy then someone who is actively involved in it. Until someone I do care about is in trouble or something, then I focus on them with Fe with all the fury of a lot of neurotic intuition, finding every angle trying to find the answer.

    I HATE doing this... blowing up and voicing out my anger. I usually try to keep calm, but in the event that the situation is extreme I will usually search for the right answer for making the situation work better. If yelling works, I will yell. I think I have only ever broke ranks and yelled at someone and really crushed them a few times, 2 or 3 total. Most of those times were with my ex gf, the few times I did yell, she broke down crying and apologizing.

    Oh yes, I have always had a decent Ti, its helped me for a long time with memorizing pertinent facts and seeing things internally as a system. The thing with INFJ Ti is that it seems contingent upon a need for feelings to align with it. Meaning, if we like something we can focus our Ti on it and we can go in deep with the Ni but since we want to do it, its effortless... now if I am stuck doing something I hate, like trying to buy car insurance, I just stumble through it. I am not interested and therefore I cant think about it in too much complexity.

    But know this... in my house as we speak I have a big military grade duffle bag filled with supplies, medicine, gold, ammo and guns and money and a shitload of other useful items. Its my "SHTF" bag, a Katrina like even happens where I live, that bag gets tossed into the back of my SUV with the shotgun and rifle and handguns, and I go pick up my family and we get the hell out and go survive. It will also be useful in the event of a zombie apocalypse :D

    My truck is rigged up for offroading, its 4x4, had high performance tires and is stocked with everything it needs including additional fuel to make it on the road a few days to give us an advantage.

    I have no actual fear or worry that I will ever use this stuff, but I know that I wont relax until I know its there, until I have money squirreled away in enough walls, etc. Because I like to be prepared. I have back roads maps of all over the Northeast into Canada as well as other useful items.

    I dont know too much about Fi, I always score very low in it... and shitty Fi has also been an issue for me in many relationships where I didnt know what I felt personally. I knew what she felt, but I didnt know what I felt, and that has been problematic.

    Especially since once they know that, they get hurt, ergo, I get hurt.

    My fi shows up very muddled, it USUALLY manifests as guilt for doing the wrong thing, but occasionally I will be struck with a (Fi Flash) for example the other day I was sitting on the beach with my nieces playing in the sand and I looked over at Cara-Beara and my eyes instantly welled up with tears, it was like uncontainable happiness that they were in my life and i felt so grateful, even now my eyes are welling up just typing this. Its one of those few rare things that actually affects me and I can feel it. Other then this though, its not so clear.

    Hope this helped.

    As far as productivity goes, I couldnt say really... Fi is not as much of a factor for my life. It doesnt come up except in very specific incidences where its lack of existence is apparent to me and others. If anything I think I could stand use Fi more if I could, it would be better for me.

    I could still be harmonious with my loved ones if I knew more clearly what it was that I wanted/felt. Then at least they could know where I stand with them, but as it is, I am constantly patching up their mistakes and brushing things under the carpet.
     
    #13 Billy, Jul 12, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  14. Jonathan

    Jonathan Community Member

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    1. I care about a select few people on a deeper level than everyone else, but my Fe cares about everyone. This makes it hard sometimes, because when trying to take care of the needs of everyone, many times there are conflicts of interest.
    I can get the vibe of everyone in a room, actually pretty easily, but since Ni works form the general to the specific, I get the vibe first, and then focus on each individual and how they relate to the group as a whole. I don't think it's an exaggeration.

    2. I like to just avoid the issue. I really, really, really don't like making people feel bad, at all. I try to say things as nicely as I can, but sometimes I get into a mood where I say things I regret saying (even on this forum, where my words are carefully chosen.) If someone says something that's against my values, I just 'door slam' and say I don't want to talk about it anymore, to prevent any heated conflict.
    Usually when I stand my ground, I end up regretting it. The only problem with this is that I have many strong values which I sometimes feel the need to stand up for, but when I do, I disrupt the harmony. When others use their Fi function to stand up for themselves, I get a bit worried.

    3. Te is actually my least developed function, so I don't know personally. I do make contingency plans, but I can't recall if it worked out or not.

    4. I will make friends with anyone. The only people I'd ever avoid are people who are against or attack my values, and people who always feel the need to debate or argue. I also portray myself in a different light with different people to provide harmony. INFPs tell me I'm being 'fake', when really I'm just turning on a different dimension of myself that best appeals to the people I'm with.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. JohnDoe

    JohnDoe Guest

    More later. You will never be able to empathize to maximum potential until you can also understand yourself. There is a reason people on this board say they empathize much better when they are observers rather then participants. What do you think the solution is? Far from being counterproductive Fi is needed to use Fe to maximum potential.
     
  16. OP
    Reon

    Reon Midnight's Garden

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    Haha, was the same avatar a gave away?

    I see, I see. So Ni acts somewhat like a buffer to Fe at times
    Interesting description. Perhaps you feel that way from a lack of Fi? [quote
    Interestingly, I spend more time worried about man kind as an abstract concept. As an organism that's whole unto itself, Dan worries about everyone he knows and everyone he doesn't know around him, I tend to worry about a very small number of people and focus on the human race as a whole and what we are doing and how we are evolving.
    [/quote]

    hehe, I'm very much the same. I remember a friend of mine asked me, after giving blood "You gave blood? I thought you hated people" and I immediately responded with "I like the concept of humanity, just not that many specific people"
    Hmm. That makes me wonder
    [quote
    I HATE doing this... blowing up and voicing out my anger. I usually try to keep calm, but in the event that the situation is extreme I will usually search for the right answer for making the situation work better. If yelling works, I will yell. I think I have only ever broke ranks and yelled at someone and really crushed them a few times, 2 or 3 total. Most of those times were with my ex gf, the few times I did yell, she broke down crying and apologizing.
    [/quote]

    So you aim for the appropriate response? Someone described Fe in that manner, Fe in a auxiliary position isn't "kind" like it would be for an ENFj, it's all about responding in an appropriate manner.
    I see. What's it like to remodel your internal system? I look at my values every once and again and see if they still hold true based on the information I've learned in my life, but I'm not sure if that's Ti.
    Interesting, as a child, I was acutely fearful of the world ending due to peak oil, nuclear warfare, you name it. By the age of 15 I was devising full strategies to make sure that I survived. I devised strategies for my age at the time, 15, and then I devised separate strategies for when I was old enough to own a home (Underground shelter, shit tons of food, perhaps in the middle of no where to make sure no one would know about it, weapons because, lets face it, end of the world, people aren't going to stick to civilities anymore)

    You should get a back up generator...>.>. Other people might still be alive and broadcasting on the radio.

    I didn't quite go that far, haha. I still need to learn some survival skills as well. I suck with directions.
    I think my feelings are often understated but I know what they mean. That might be Fi. [quote
    Especially since once they know that, they get hurt, ergo, I get hurt.

    My fi shows up very muddled, it USUALLY manifests as guilt for doing the wrong thing, but occasionally I will be struck with a (Fi Flash) for example the other day I was sitting on the beach with my nieces playing in the sand and I looked over at Cara-Beara and my eyes instantly welled up with tears, it was like uncontainable happiness that they were in my life and i felt so grateful, even now my eyes are welling up just typing this. Its one of those few rare things that actually affects me and I can feel it. Other then this though, its not so clear.

    Hope this helped.
    [/quote]
    I have very similar emotions as times. I'll just get an intense feeling of something, straight in the middle of my chest, nearly paralyzing. And this did help Billy, thanks!
    Hmm. That's parallels what JohnDoe just said. Interesting.

    Jonathan: Vibe as in how a person presents themselves? Or vibe in some other manner?

    JohnDoe: The solution: Build more Fi. How? I'm not sure, participating more might help. I find it interesting that a lot of INFJs are into Psychology, sociology, philosophy, and the like and yet some claim to not really have a deep sense of understanding about themselves. I'd think that by being so interested in people, they would know themselves quite well.
     
  17. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Hah, no, I didnt recognize the avy, however I did recognize your verbal voice, and that you were asking about being an INFJ while thinking you were an INTJ, and needing a larger sample of answers etc, I just put 1 and 1 together.

    I think Ni doms in general are detached. And we analyze 1st, then feel.

    Hmm, who knows, as the cognitive function card shuffle I got is differnt fro everyone elses, that could be something unique to me... I think that most INFJs are probably like that to a degree, its why it seems its so easy for them to self sacrifice and not sweat the small stuff. It doesnt quite sting, its annoying, we KNOW its annoying, but there is no real feeling there, and it doesnt seem worth disrupting the relationship and the other persons feelings if they are genuinely unaware of it. Only when it becomes a big issue does it start to need to feel like there needs an abatement.



    Same here. Humanity is wondrous, beautiful and complex... individual humans are frickin short sighted dullards!



    I have a very rigid standard for balance in my head. I typically utilize a belief of equality, or give as good as you get. Fe for me when I am correcting someones behavior is about seeking the right answer for that specific person that will get through to them. Sometimes talking doesnt work or rationality. Sometimes you have to touch them physically on the shoulder or something and let them read it in your eyes, sometimes you have to yell.

    I do the same, I have chipped away at my morality over the years, things i was taught to believe that I THOUGHT I felt strongly for but turns out felt nothing for. I find my values to be much more fluid then originally perceived... so I try not to be quite as judgmental as I once was. Especially as I learn new data and incorporate it into my mind. Letting go of those standards and those judgments hasd freed my mind up enough to just collect new viewpoints and find any shred of validity I can in it. I think it is Ti, to check your beliefs against logic to see if they stand up or if they just slipped in. I know as someone fairly empathetic, that I will accept advice or words as fact if it comes from a source I love or trust enough, which in time has proven to be disastrous logically. Now I run everything through the processor and look for its true essence.
    Haha that reminds me of this building I used to know in New Britain, it was a designated nuclear fallout shelter, I remember knowing what that meant as early as 8 or 9 and knowing that it was good that I knew where to go in case of that. Never forgot it.

    Cant handle the weight, i would likely have too many people with me and lots of guns and ammo, I am pretty sure we can get a genny if we need to with our superior fire power ;)


    I LOVE survival... I used to have all the green beret field manuals on forest survival it was awesome.



    I think that wold be the way to build Fi, just keep finding the things that effect us internally, as opposed to pushing our Fe out on everyone else... I spend a lot of time with those kids, its good for me, I can feel that.


    For my part, the most curiosity I ever had was for my own psyche. I spent a lot of time alone pondering the mystery of myself. I think INFJs can come to a hasty conclusion at times when we need to give an answer, a la, we are too complex to understand and we dont get us either, but the truth is that I probably know myself better then most people know themselves I spend an inordinate amount of time introspecting and analyzing. I know I surprise myself sometimes, but most of the time I know who and what I am. I think that thats directly attribuatble to my nature as an Ni dominated type.
     
  18. origamipuzzleboxes

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    1. It depends on the INFJ, but generally we care for everybody. We will just go to the ends of the earth for someone we truly love. We tend to be able to walk into a room and receive everybody's feelings as a ball thrown at our gut. Can be a fluffy soft ball like giddiness. Can also be an anxious and upset or angry ball which can make us nauseous. But definitely
    2. If someone violates our values, they might get doorslammed if we still care about them as a person and don't want to rip them another. However, sometimes there are douchebags for need to be told in an enumerated list how exactly they have failed to live up to our basic expectations of them as human beings. And then we will go off on them in an INFJ rage of very eloquent, very cutting words with no niceness to soften their delivery. In terms of standing our ground and utterly demolishing the other person, we do it very well. So yes, what we do then is similar to Fi, however it is usually our Ni we use in those cases.
    3. INFJs can have contingency plans, particularly if multiple areas relate to our goals.
    4. It's really not so much Fe seeks external harmony so they can gain internal harmony, as much as it is Fe seeks external harmony so the Fe is no longer picking up other's distress and arguments over the issue and can go back to doing their own thing now, thank you very much. As for friends, INFJs don't form friendships with the majority of people, particularly not people we have to calm down all the time. We form acquaintanceships easily and seek to make their lives easier because that's what an acquaintance does when it's no stress to them. Friendships we usually form with people who at least agree on our fundamental morals, or at least don't disagree with them and are very deep and we also seek them out. However, with that case, we are seeking people who agree with of Ni, not our Fi, and who we can actually communicate with (again Ni).
     
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