Positive impact of religions | INFJ Forum

Positive impact of religions

Lark

Lark

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May 9, 2011
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I was reading about an oriental emperor who upon meeting portugese missionaries instructed ministers to embark on a fact finding mission to discover is christianity had had a greater positive impact on public life and public morals in western countries than buddhism had had at home and that the ministers concluded it had not, what are your views about this and the social/temporal aims and impact of religion generally?
 
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That is a very complicated question. I'm also curious to see peoples answers....

I'd comment, but it's the weekend and I'm to tired to think :m038:
My brain is offline right now, haha :m075:
 
Yes indeed, religion was a real stepping stone for humanity, Christianity is no exception. In the other hand, it's also a fact that even the most benefical things/entities should face their decadence and their eventual extinction. Beneficial, but outdated and hopefully not rotten.
 
I dont share your view, respectfully I believe it is a modern or contemporary conceit but thanks for contributing to the thread.
 
Now this should be a worthy thread...I hope it will not pass that easy.
 
I think that religion in general has brought it’s share of positive aspects, actions, and morals. But at the same time I believe that it has brought it’s equal share of negative consequences…if not more so in certain religions cases.
If religion did not exist I don’t necessarily think that it would be a good thing either…I certainly don’t take the viewpoint that certain people take that it would make our world a more peaceful and harmonious place. My own belief is that people would still find things are argue, refute, and war over with or without religion.
 
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I'm going to bypass the OP, which seems to be about comparing religions.

Given my natural temperament and personal history, I shudder when I try to imagine what my outlook would be like if it were not for religion. I do not claim to have a perfectly benign and idealistic outlook - but I know that if it were not for religion I would be completely loveless, pragmatic, and probably malicious.

Religion has "lighted the way" for seeking an ideal, which is not about achieving the maximum of my capability, but about changing/transforming/growing my capabilities into areas I was not aware about. Ie. I don't seek to grow my influence, but myself. And this is for the sake of engaging with others in a more perfect, less selfish, love.

I feel that I haven't even begun to grasp what love and serenity are about, but I know that I am starting a journey which may take my entire life and only get a few steps further, but there is nothing I would rather do.

** Some good news, I have finally been able to close off my work-involvement. I could be recalled at any time, but time makes one increasingly irrelevant - so I am not worried. I think I am going to give myself a few months to think and pray about my next move. I might become a monk, a hermit, a wanderer, a charity worker. I don't know yet. **
 
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I think religion has been a generally positive development for humanity, but like any institution it faces corrupting influences and existential threats. However, it is much easier to found a state than it is to found a religion, so there is greater danger in allowing a religion to become corrupt.
 
I know that when I was younger I would have run rampant if I wasn't trying to observe religious morals. Would I have turned out better or worse in the aftermath? Hard to say, I think prison would have broke me I'd I would have nothing to stop me from going through with suicide. But since I was religious, I did the things I was supposed to do to become moderately successful.
 
Eh well being bad is kinda pointless if there's no morals to break.

Kinda like my cat. He's not a dbag. Could be if he wanted to but what reason does he have? He knows I'm good for him. I feed him and sing to him and pet him and he tolerates it. Unlike a feral cat who will scratch the piss out of you because it thinks you're a threat. If you give the cat her space and show you're not a threat the feral cat learns and can eventually accept you, but if you oppress the cat and keep doing things she doesn't appreciate then she has a reason to see you as an enemy. Cats remember shit. And teach it to other cats too.
 
the said:
I know that when I was younger I would have run rampant if I wasn't trying to observe religious morals. Would I have turned out better or worse in the aftermath? Hard to say, I think prison would have broke me I'd I would have nothing to stop me from going through with suicide. But since I was religious, I did the things I was supposed to do to become moderately successful.
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And to think that the new atheists would tell you that you didn't need religion. It's a real shame that we have so many intelligent people who tell us that we are all independent and do not need moral communities.
 
Our modern western morals are based upon christianity. Even the hardcore atheists are using the morals of christianity. Christianity managed to turn morals from being externally measured into being internally driven. Nietzsche was great on the subject of slave morality (Christianity) but a little less clear when it came to creating new moral values.
 
Hmm...religion just hasn't been something I could ever identify with or felt like something that I needed.

My morals come from an inner sense of "knowing" intrinsically what is or is not the right thing for me. I say "for me" because I don't really believe all morals are universal, although it really seems like some are. My idealistic self would love to believe that there are certain morals that "should" be universal, but perhaps things are not so black and white in reality. I don't have religion to thank for this "knowing" either, I have my own reasoning abilities and my heart to guide me.

I suffer with mental illness and other such issues, but as life has gone on I am learning much more about how to cope and what to do about it. Years of suffering, introspection and rising out of destructive habits phoenix style has given me a little wisdom, though I fail often even still. I expect I will always fail, but I won't ever stop trying to be better and to further my understanding of my own inner workings so that I can grow.

Religion has no part in this process for me. In my case I feel that religion would negatively impact my progress towards becoming a better person. It is full of rules and shoulds and should nots that would only serve to hold me back. It isn't something I am even remotely interested in. I am interested in learning the truth about things, imagination, creation, beauty, life, love, and kindness. All are things that make humanity so lovely and inspiring to me.

The fact that religion has helped some people overcome certain obstacles doesn't absolve it of all the harm it has caused in my eyes. But, all the same, if it is working for you, and it is what feels right for your life, then so be it! No judgement from me for that.

It is like I think I once heard Louis CK say, if it helps you not be a shitty person, great! Have at it! Just understand not everyone needs that to not be a shitty person or even to not be afraid of dying.
 
let's not forget the roman catholic church basically holding civilization together after the fall of Rome(for better or worse)
 
Barnabas said:
let's not forget the roman catholic church basically holding civilization together after the fall of Rome(for better or worse)
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I'd hardly say that Rome was the whole of civilization at the time. Maybe it held together western European civilization. China had similar problems right around the same time as Rome did but also bounced back and eventually opened itself to outsiders then in swoops European nations to chop up China for themselves, sparking off the Boxer Rebellion.

Edit:
Also China does have a lot of political problems but it has at least been a nation for thousands of years even under attack by Mongols and eventually Europe and Japan but still it survived in largely one piece, which is more than can be said for any nation in Europe, including the Roman Empire.
 
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[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]

Also note that Imperial China had the Mandate of Heaven. This is a bit similar in concept to the divine sovereignty of European kings, but in the case of Mandate of Heaven this was NOT unconditional. A Chinese emperor could not get away with whatever they wanted.

According to the Mandate of Heaven a dynasty is overthrown at the time that heaven ordains it. This means if the people rise up and rebel, then that is basically destiny saying that it's time for the current government to go.

This is why when the Mongols took over China they became a new dynasty under the Mandate of Heaven, so even though this was the first time in history that China was ruled by a foreign power, it was still China.
 
And lets not forget everything that was happening in west africa and the near east
 
casie said:
And lets not forget everything that was happening in west africa and the near east
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Yes, there are incredibly old civilizations there as well, some of the oldest, often held together by religion.

A lot of people may not agree with the religions, but these empires still count as existing civilizations, older than the Christian empires.
 
I'm sorry, at this point in history I feel like all religions are outdated and that the people who follow religion are "last men" as Nietzsche called them. I point to the religious war taking place in the middle east (video 1) and the murders of gays in Africa as a result of evangelism(video 2).

[video=youtube;bPUsVmMe1Ho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPUsVmMe1Ho[/video]

[video=youtube;ims7_3wud7A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ims7_3wud7A[/video]

The main issue with religion is that it makes you believe things that are not otherwise true, and because these "facts" become dogma for people creates people who cannot reason and who will deny facts. My grandparents are baptists and they believe that dinosaur bones were put on earth to test their faith.

Sure way back in the day, Islam was beneficial to people because they had to wash their hands five times a day- therefore limiting outbreaks of disease. Now it's outdated and its believers live in the past.

Sure, prayer can be likened to meditation- in the sense that you close your eyes- but it creates this idea that people can ask favors from god, and it takes away their ability to actually see if they can improve their own situation. Sure, people feel weak sometimes but that doesn't mean they need a mental crutch.



If I sound like I am on the offense, I am. I am so incredibly angry at the Islamic extremists who are currently mercilessly shooting down Iraqis in the name of ideology.
 
jupiterswoon said:
I'm sorry, at this point in history I feel like all religions are outdated and that the people who follow religion are "last men" as Nietzsche called them. I point to the religious war taking place in the middle east (video 1) and the murders of gays in Africa as a result of evangelism(video 2).

The main issue with religion is that it makes you believe things that are not otherwise true, and because these "facts" become dogma for people creates people who cannot reason and who will deny facts. My grandparents are baptists and they believe that dinosaur bones were put on earth to test their faith.

Sure way back in the day, Islam was beneficial to people because they had to wash their hands five times a day- therefore limiting outbreaks of disease. Now it's outdated and its believers live in the past.

Sure, prayer can be likened to meditation- in the sense that you close your eyes- but it creates this idea that people can ask favors from god, and it takes away their ability to actually see if they can improve their own situation. Sure, people feel weak sometimes but that doesn't mean they need a mental crutch.

If I sound like I am on the offense, I am. I am so incredibly angry at the Islamic extremists who are currently mercilessly shooting down Iraqis in the name of ideology.
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Yes, I think it's a problem when it becomes dogmatic to the point that it causes such unrest. That defeats the purpose doesn't it?

I think if we're going to have it, it should be more pragmatic, the way it was in China extending back to at least 1600 BC. The scholars would always try to find the things that lead to peace and prosperity, which is why they went through all kinds of different forms of Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism. Somebody would always eventually say "This current thing isn't working, let's change it"

So for example after the Five Dynasties period when the the singular Song Dynasty took over, they were trying to figure out how to pass on the Mandate of Heaven since none of the five previous dynasties ruled all of China. Instead of fighting about who would be a legitimate successor, the scholars simply made an exception and said that all five dynasties were mandated by heaven.
 
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