Police disperse gay pride parade in Moscow | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Police disperse gay pride parade in Moscow

Taz said:
Yeah I exaggerated for emphasis. I do that alot when I'm angry.
And there are billions of people on the planet...:p 6.
Whats Kent State?
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No, there aren't. There are six milliard people on the planet. A billion has twelve zeroes.

Kent State was a peaceful protest in the United States at Kent State University where the US Soldiers felt it necessary to massacre the students.

People are at the level they choose to be. If a person feels they're less than everyone else they are so by virtue of choice. If they feel or choose otherwise, they are, by virtue of choice.
 
Shai Gar said:
No, there aren't. There are six milliard people on the planet. A billion has twelve zeroes.quote]

I had to search wikipedia to understand in which way you're fucking with me, Aussie. Good one.
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Shai Gar said:
People are at the level they choose to be. If a person feels they're less than everyone else they are so by virtue of choice. If they feel or choose otherwise, they are, by virtue of choice.
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You are absolutely correct if the value of a human being is measured solely on their view of self. If you expand your concept of human value to include intrinsic value, intelligence, constructive actions they take in the world, or who knows what else, then your measuring rod fails. Feeling unintelligent does not make one unintelligent. It only makes one have a negative feeling. The actual skill remains intact. Assuming one is a genius does not make one a genius. Self perception can influence future choices and have a hand in shaping the individual, but it makes no logical sense in my mind that it measures worth as a human or member of society.

This goes to the heart of one's assumption as to what a human being is. If a human being is a product of their genetics, environment, and the resulting choices they make, then this implies that you, or I, would be the person half naked in the gay parade, we would be the police that killed a Kent State student, we would then be sensible citizen who never caused trouble if we shared their same shaping influences. The intrinsic value is equal regardless of who the individual is if humanity is seen as a connected whole. Feeling like less is understood to be a reflection of a person being suppressed and told they are less in a personal or societal context. Their effect is the natural result of a cause. They are no different from someone else who had a different cause that produced a feeling of superiority. That we are intrinsically equal with different outcomes based on different causes, is the position that makes a premise for equality in a society rational. If the premise is that we choose our own worth, then striving for equality in a society is not reasonable.
 
Everybody needs somebody to hate. And even gays hate straight people. I don't give a shit. And if they legalize gay marriage in America I am going to go on a crusade convincing straight people to get divorced in protest. You can get married all you want. I just don't think it is a good way to build a working family. And you can hate me all you want and say I know nothing about it. But I do more than you know...

My history teacher Lew Sitzer was at kent state and got shot at. All he was trying to do was help blacks register to vote. One trigger happy dumb shit fucked it all up. He showed me some pics of what went on there. He also traveled to Cambodia during Viet Nam to live in a village with native farmers. They were bombed by the Americans "by accident". I saw these pictures also.

The bottom line is hate of any kind is wrong. And sometimes bucking the system just gets you killed in the end. How many people have we forgot about that put all of us where we are today?

Be homosexual all you want just know that no matter how hard you try to be hetero you never will truly fit in. So why try? Be yourself and society will have to accept you. Your never gonna make everyone like you ever...
 
LOL Satya! I go to Pride Day every year here in Toronto because pride isn't the deadly sin we thought it was thousands of years ago. Pride is a moderating force in my life. The crowds are fine, 'cause they're there for similar reasons. The music makes me feel more alive, as long as it doesn't deafen. And a little eye candy won't kill me either.

If a person doesn't want something waved in their faces, odds are their faces are in the wrong place to begin with.

I'm glad these issues don't anger me as much anymore.
 
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I have an uncle I never met.... His name was Arnulfo and he was my mom's favorite brother. He was a chef and I am told he had one of the kindest hearts, also he was gay. One day after work, he was jumped and beaten to death because of his sexuality, or homosexuality, if you will. This was years before I was born and I'm now 27... But things haven't really changed. And I hate to say that he isn't the only person I know of who's life was taken because he was gay.

It's sad that we live in a world with people who automatically reject the things they don't understand as wrong. That in itself is the real wrong. I believe people should stand firm in their beliefs, but I also believe that breath should never be wasted, and pearls should not be cast to the swine....

There are proper channels to address all things.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
 
I hate prejudice and discrimination with a passion. I don't think someone should be judged by their sexual orientation, and it pains me to see others commit violence based on that.

People should focus much more on other aspects of the self than sexuality. There are many pieces which I dare say are more important to who a person is.

The older I become the more I wonder if all people really want to do is to fight with one another.
 
"The older I become the more I wonder if all people really want to do is to fight with one another. "

Seems to be the case these days...
 
I must say everyone does not believe the same way. One must totally agree with that if one is to be somewhat openminded. There will most likely always be those against something some are for, as there will be those for something some are against. I do not correlate that with fighting inasmuch as disagreeing. One simply cannot expect everyone to choose silence when they disagree. To publicly make a stand for something will always bring out those that disagree in public. Taking something to the streets will always find opposition. Opposition often breeds violence, and the streets are not the place to have such confrontations. Knowing how mankind is, what does one actually expect?
 
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We expect for the police and law in general to work only for people's safety, and to remain unbiased when such conflicts arise. That did not happen here, which is why we're angry.
 
Anger is defined to be a feeling. Anger often leads to bad decisions.
 
I should clarify. I should be angrier about these events in Moscow. I really should be. But I've found too much anger can be debilitating, and I think I just chose not to be this time. Nothing against any of you who are. Maybe I will be tomorrow. Anger can come from a very powerful, truthful place, which indeed seems to be the case here. But recently I don't shock quite as easily.
 
I expect with some naivety for humankind to behave humanely. It's interesting that we have imbued the meanings that we chose to in the word 'humanely' and that we use what we are (human) to write it the word itself.

According to m-w.com, humanely is:
marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals

Correct me if I am wrong justme, but do you use this definition for humankind when you are describing humanity?

If you wish, I have objective proof in the form of war studies about the nature of humans when it comes to war and peace. I was surprised when I first saw it. War is one of the oldest games that is both universal and 'unites' the human experience. It's sad, but true.
 
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Azure_Knight said:
I expect with some naivety for humankind to behave humanely. It's interesting that we have imbued the meanings that we chose to in the word 'humanely' and that we use what we are (human) to write it the word itself.

According to m-w.com, humanely is:
marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals

Correct me if I am wrong justme, but do you use this definition for humankind when you are describing humanity?

If you wish, I have objective proof in the form of war studies about the nature of humans when it comes to war and peace. I was surprised when I first saw it. War is one of the oldest games that is both universal and 'unites' the human experience. It's sad, but true.
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Azure Knight,
I believe in human rights, but I place a strong emphasis on the part that does not allow us to infringe on the rights of others while expressing or reflexing our rights. Most here know where I stand regarding homosexuality. It has caused me much grief and I have chosen to steer clear of the subject. I disagree, period. Am I not allowed my rights to be exercised? Am I not allowed to disagree? I saw what happened with little difference than if a group of Christians were to have waltzed themselves down the streets of Tehran during a musical festival. Homosexuals cannot "force themselves" in a country with their beliefs they are correct, when the country does not feel they are, in such a way. Why not just place Russia on notice that they are going to be invaded by homosexuals? One cannot cause commotion and distraction in the streets to take away from a music festival. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong subject, wrong actions.
Taking something to the streets is going to be met with force in some countries. I did not see the Russians take the homosexuals to the countryside and murder them. Some countries may very well have done just that. Open assaults against the Word of God bother me, but I choose not to take it to the streets; even when I see the assaults and such as merely trying to destroy a moral factor only to try and justify another's morals. I can agree to disagree and have not tried to force my Christianity on anyone here...or in Russia. Yet, the more I say the more I am questioned. If I truly felt it was for some other reason than to run my faith down so others could further justify the way they believe, I might further interact in the ongoing conversations regarding religion and faith.
It is my right to feel the way I do, but not my right to try and force myself on others. I can live like Daniel in the Bible and pray at home away from the crowd if I must, but my window may also be left open. I remember a student standing in front of a tank in China many years ago.
The government may very well have run him over, but some aspect of respect for human life must have been in the man's heart that was controlling that tank. Homosexuality will most likely never be accepted worldwide as moral and ethical, though it may possibly be a right for someone as long as they do not interfere with the rights of others.
 
Most gay people actually are uncomfortable with those floats with naked gay guys swinging their dongs around at gay pride parades too. I was in fact talking about this to a friend of mine the other day and she pointed out (since I'd never actually been to a parade) that the vast majority of people who attend such parades actually don't do the whole exhibitionism shtick, and what you see in the media is basically just the media zeroing in on what sells; naked guys on a float swinging their dongs about.
 
Serious Question: When did people become so dependent on the media? When did people quit thinking for themselves??

dneecey, my heart broke when I read about your uncle you never met. What would happen if the murder was discussed in the news, but they left out that he was gay? People would be outraged! Angry! Afraid for their children! And then you add "he was gay," and all of a sudden people turn ugly. Their attitudes change. You hear evil and disgusting things being whispered. WHY DON'T HUMANS ACT HUMANELY?! :rant:

*Deep Breaths* ... </rant>
 
Milon said:
Serious Question: When did people become so dependent on the media? When did people quit thinking for themselves??
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When we started living an information based society and we started being expected to make informed decisions on a wide array of various things. It'd take too much effort to really keep up with everything going on in the world, and the media feeds us bite sized bits of information.
 
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