Please don't set me on fire!

[Chessie]

Wow. This is going to be a tough one.

I actually need advice.

Saying that in an INFJ forum is like saying 'Hey, Tornado...how about some Kansas trailer park?'

I've been in a relationship for 7 months. Actually, two relationships.

*runs behind the couch and tries to quickly explain in the face of flamethrowers*

I have two boyfriends. Both female to male transexuals. One is named Chris and he's a neurotic ball of love in Michigan. The other is Salem. He's a neurotic ball of love who lives with me. You're getting the theme here with my attraction to people? They're both INFJ's, so...yes, neurotic goes with the territory. I'm polyamorous, so both of them know about one another and are fine with it.

I could just be asking for advice to confirm what my intuition is already telling me.

Salem is BIG on commitment. Not my kind of commitment where you're endlessly loyal, either. The other kind. He's a flat out old-fashioned romantic.

He's married, after all. Not to me, thankfully.

Anyway...he's a romantic. I like that a little on the one side and on the other, I much prefer a relationship of mutual love, respect, caring, friendship, sexual satisfaction, emotional interaction, and intimacy to one of gestures. Still, romantic. He likes gestures.

He's also been in eight prior relationships with eight spectacular failures of human beings. I think I may maintain the record for highest bank account, longest maintained house, cleanest home, lowest chance of transmitting an STD, most stable income, and least plans for world domination and the enslavement of the human race to objectivist ideology.

He's vulnerable and he's...recovering as a person from his life in Florida since he moved in with me. His INFJ-ness is re-asserting itself. He's growing like mad. In eight months, I've watched him go from nearly shattered straight back to a collected, creative individual and he's still up and coming.

To date, the primary issue is that he's afraid. Terrified. Stricken. Thesaurus.

He's afraid I will involve with someone else and no longer want him in my life. That I'm already involved with two other people (I have a lover, aside my mates) seems not to bother him but the idea of me taking new mates, lovers, or pets at any point in the future really does seem to unsettle him greatly.

I know I sound kind of cold just now, it's...you know...I don't want to show how much this worries me. So just go with the cold distant voice.

I have met people I want to have more intimate relationships with. Emotional relationships or physical. I'm polyamorous because I am responsible enough to be. I'm honest as humanly possible with him and I'm more or less building up to sitting down and asking him how he really feels about this in a complete way. Maybe telling him how I feel, but that's...you know, you have to be careful and choose your moments.

Maybe I'm just making excuses. I don't want to hurt him, but flat out fact, monogamy or anything like it would ruin my relationship with him. Pure, simple, fact. I am not monogamous. Not because I can't be but because I think it's wrong for me to be. Morally.

I don't mean it's wrong for other people to be monogamous and I've certainly had monogamous relationships although I was still growing then. I think if I did it today...ugh...it would be as wrong as a gay woman marrying a straight man and lying to him just to avoid facing herself or the social consequences. She might love and care for him, but the relationship would be a lie.

Seeing Salem grow is so important to me...and I don't want to hurt him. I can feel it when he's in pain, even a little, and it's awful. Ceasing to be me would be lying to him, lying to my lovers, lying to my other mate, and ultimately lying to myself.

 

[Shai Gar]

he dated an entp?

 

[Chessie]

Thank you Shai. Useful, kind, and empathetic as always.

 

[Shai Gar]

I am unable to solve your problem. There is nothing left for me to do other than to bring levity to the situation so that berevity is lessened.

 

[Faye]

Well, it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Are you confusing what is enjoyable with what it is to be true to yourself?

Monogamy is about commiting oneself to the good of another person for life - even at great personal cost and sacrifice. It is about loving someone enough to suffer them, not simply to love them enough to enjoy/use them.

Perhaps you are not up to loving someone monogamously, but that kind of love is what most people seek - even if they know you say you won't reciprocate.

My question: are you using people? or more to the point: are you using people who are allowing themselves to be used?


(edit: no flamethrower intended, but I got the sense you posted because you were uncomfortable with what you are doing... so I have replied with what makes me uncomfortable with what you have said).

 

[Chessie]

Thank you. I keep wishing I could address this in a sane way.

Why do you have sex with women? Or men? Why are you straight or gay? Why do some people find study satisfying and some people find adventure satisfying?

You're unqualified to judge me.

Monogamy, to me, represents slavery. It represents mistrust. It represents fear, insecurity, dominance, and ownership.

That is not what it may represent to you. It may be something completely different. It's not easy, listening to self-righteously uncomfortable, jealous moralists proclaiming my inadequacy as a human being because I don't particularly want to stick a leash and a chastity belt on my loved ones.

You try it one day. Try sitting in the hospital waiting room because somebody you have lived with for years, someone you held and loved, someone you slept beside, someone you gave everything for...YOU try sitting in the hospital waiting room not knowing if they're going to live and not being able to see them because you didn't get married because they were already married.

Try that and then you pass judgement.

So yeah, polyamory. Great. I do it for the social benefits and the financial benefits, right? I do it because I'm selfish, don't I? I do it because I'm not 'up' to shoving people out of my life because I get into a physical or emotionally intimate relationship with someone. Tell me how great it is to love 'just one person'.

 

[Feelings]

Sounds like what you need is incompatible with what Salem needs. I think you already know that inevitably you and him are going to have to face that, but you're specifically looking for advice on how to make this process as painless as possible.

I have absolutely no idea about how to make the process easier, but I thought it would be helpful to clarify what you are (and aren't) looking for here, for the other readers.

 

[Matariki]

Monogamy, to me, represents slavery. It represents mistrust. It represents fear, insecurity, dominance, and ownership.

Its sad to hear say such a thing. To me represents respect, loyalty, pride, security, sacrifice and love.

I have a feeling that this problem is quite deep emotionally and that you need to seek professional help. I mean it in a nice way. It might be best to leave both men and spend some time to sort out your issues.

 

[Skoffin]

You may be polyamorous and comfortable with the general situation of things, but it doesn't sound like this guy is. Perhaps he doesn't completely understand how you or the situation works, or perhaps it just doesn't sit right with him. Find out what he wants of the relationship, if he does indeed prefer a monogamous relationship then perhaps it is best that you let him go.

 

[Siamese cat]

Wow. This is going to be a tough one.

I actually need advice.

Saying that in an INFJ forum is like saying 'Hey, Tornado...how about some Kansas trailer park?'

I've been in a relationship for 7 months. Actually, two relationships.

*runs behind the couch and tries to quickly explain in the face of flamethrowers*

I have two boyfriends. Both female to male transexuals. One is named Chris and he's a neurotic ball of love in Michigan. The other is Salem. He's a neurotic ball of love who lives with me. You're getting the theme here with my attraction to people? They're both INFJ's, so...yes, neurotic goes with the territory. I'm polyamorous, so both of them know about one another and are fine with it.

I could just be asking for advice to confirm what my intuition is already telling me.

Salem is BIG on commitment. Not my kind of commitment where you're endlessly loyal, either. The other kind. He's a flat out old-fashioned romantic.

He's married, after all. Not to me, thankfully.

Anyway...he's a romantic. I like that a little on the one side and on the other, I much prefer a relationship of mutual love, respect, caring, friendship, sexual satisfaction, emotional interaction, and intimacy to one of gestures. Still, romantic. He likes gestures.

He's also been in eight prior relationships with eight spectacular failures of human beings. I think I may maintain the record for highest bank account, longest maintained house, cleanest home, lowest chance of transmitting an STD, most stable income, and least plans for world domination and the enslavement of the human race to objectivist ideology.

He's vulnerable and he's...recovering as a person from his life in Florida since he moved in with me. His INFJ-ness is re-asserting itself. He's growing like mad. In eight months, I've watched him go from nearly shattered straight back to a collected, creative individual and he's still up and coming.

To date, the primary issue is that he's afraid. Terrified. Stricken. Thesaurus.

He's afraid I will involve with someone else and no longer want him in my life. That I'm already involved with two other people (I have a lover, aside my mates) seems not to bother him but the idea of me taking new mates, lovers, or pets at any point in the future really does seem to unsettle him greatly.

I know I sound kind of cold just now, it's...you know...I don't want to show how much this worries me. So just go with the cold distant voice.

I have met people I want to have more intimate relationships with. Emotional relationships or physical. I'm polyamorous because I am responsible enough to be. I'm honest as humanly possible with him and I'm more or less building up to sitting down and asking him how he really feels about this in a complete way. Maybe telling him how I feel, but that's...you know, you have to be careful and choose your moments.

Maybe I'm just making excuses. I don't want to hurt him, but flat out fact, monogamy or anything like it would ruin my relationship with him. Pure, simple, fact. I am not monogamous. Not because I can't be but because I think it's wrong for me to be. Morally.

I don't mean it's wrong for other people to be monogamous and I've certainly had monogamous relationships although I was still growing then. I think if I did it today...ugh...it would be as wrong as a gay woman marrying a straight man and lying to him just to avoid facing herself or the social consequences. She might love and care for him, but the relationship would be a lie.

Seeing Salem grow is so important to me...and I don't want to hurt him. I can feel it when he's in pain, even a little, and it's awful. Ceasing to be me would be lying to him, lying to my lovers, lying to my other mate, and ultimately lying to myself.

Hurt is the essential part of growth process. You should be honest, choose your words, but be honest, first with yourself and then with them. Because you seem to linger between your moral thoughts and the want to not hurt them and at the same time be with those who you love. That means setting your priorities and being frank with them, because although it might be hurtful at first it's better for all of you in the long run.

Hope things go well for you!

 

[Tactical Panda]

I'm not going to flamethrower you. But you have already decided to be true to yourself... so I'm not sure if others can even give you advice - it would sort of lead you away from your natural behaviour with is key for you. Do you have anyone around you would feel comfortable to emotionally support you, outside your romantic interests? Does Salem? It may help, although it probably won't help him in the short term.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Thank you. I keep wishing I could address this in a sane way.

Why do you have sex with women? Or men? Why are you straight or gay? Why do some people find study satisfying and some people find adventure satisfying?

You're unqualified to judge me.

Monogamy, to me, represents slavery. It represents mistrust. It represents fear, insecurity, dominance, and ownership.

That is not what it may represent to you. It may be something completely different. It's not easy, listening to self-righteously uncomfortable, jealous moralists proclaiming my inadequacy as a human being because I don't particularly want to stick a leash and a chastity belt on my loved ones.

You try it one day. Try sitting in the hospital waiting room because somebody you have lived with for years, someone you held and loved, someone you slept beside, someone you gave everything for...YOU try sitting in the hospital waiting room not knowing if they're going to live and not being able to see them because you didn't get married because they were already married.

Try that and then you pass judgement.

So yeah, polyamory. Great. I do it for the social benefits and the financial benefits, right? I do it because I'm selfish, don't I? I do it because I'm not 'up' to shoving people out of my life because I get into a physical or emotionally intimate relationship with someone. Tell me how great it is to love 'just one person'.

I think you have read more into comments than was there.

I was/am uncomfortable with any relationship where the interests/needs of the two (or more) parties are conflicting.

The guys you see need commitment - you need variety(I don't know what to call it, but variety works - sorry I can't find a more nuanced word at the moment). They are willing to love you, although you can't give them exclusive commitment. That is, they are willing to compromise their needs for yours. Reciprocally, it would seem right for you to compromise your need for theirs......BUT the two needs are contradictory and cannot co-exist: either you sacrifice polygamy or they sacrifice monogamy.

Since I am not speaking with the guys, but you - I can only address 'your side of the fence' by asking the question: are you willing to sacrifice your needs for those of whom you love?

As I said - no judgement/condemnation/flamethrowing/etc is implied - but a difficult situation always has difficult dilemas.

 

[Blind Bandit]

Thank you. I keep wishing I could address this in a sane way.

Why do you have sex with women? Or men? Why are you straight or gay? Why do some people find study satisfying and some people find adventure satisfying?

You're unqualified to judge me.

Monogamy, to me, represents slavery. It represents mistrust. It represents fear, insecurity, dominance, and ownership.

That is not what it may represent to you. It may be something completely different. It's not easy, listening to self-righteously uncomfortable, jealous moralists proclaiming my inadequacy as a human being because I don't particularly want to stick a leash and a chastity belt on my loved ones.

You try it one day. Try sitting in the hospital waiting room because somebody you have lived with for years, someone you held and loved, someone you slept beside, someone you gave everything for...YOU try sitting in the hospital waiting room not knowing if they're going to live and not being able to see them because you didn't get married because they were already married.

Try that and then you pass judgement.

So yeah, polyamory. Great. I do it for the social benefits and the financial benefits, right? I do it because I'm selfish, don't I? I do it because I'm not 'up' to shoving people out of my life because I get into a physical or emotionally intimate relationship with someone. Tell me how great it is to love 'just one person'.

With all to do respect (I have no problem with ploy relationships when all parties are in equally and are all benfiting) but you letting your fear of attachment hurt others. Its not wise to dealing with married people. You already know this I'm sure.

You need to step up and deal with this. Its not fair to simply decide you can't commit and then strings others along. You have to deal with this issue. Its hard and no matter how you handle it will hurt . But you can't keep going with out making a choice or it will hurt more when things fall out.

Also losing someone is part of loving someone its hard fact but its the truth. We can't run from this. The only thing we can do is embrace this fear and just love someone and deal with the loss when it comes.

 

[Trifoilum]

I'm not going to judge....

.....but it takes two to play this game. *yeah, polyamory means taking more than one, but I assume you don't live together in one place and having a one big love party*

if he doesn't want, or unable, or hurting himself to play your game, the ball's on your court now. To what extent are you trying to save this relationship?