No Scientific Evidence but Anybody Ever Think May be Homo Sapiens Consciousness Has Purposes? | INFJ Forum

No Scientific Evidence but Anybody Ever Think May be Homo Sapiens Consciousness Has Purposes?

larcipelago

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Jan 4, 2020
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I am just comparing some facts, the dinosaur ruled the earth for about 150 million years before they were wiped out by the impacts of the big stone collition to the earth.

Some survivors, including omnivore mammals who stayed more under the earth had their chances to evolve, beating reptilians in the food chain as the big giants like T-Rex adapted to shrink their bodies (some believed chickens have closest DNA matching with T-Rex).

One type of monkey that was evicted from the trees were pushed to walk in the land, a more dangerous environment compared to when they were at the trees.

These monkey then developed a new skill. Their evolution led them to sacrifice the size of new born (half baked - deer newborn can walk within hours). The genetic codes were ordering new generations to ensure brain development undisturbed, in fact growing.

If one enjoys watching Natural Geography, it is still visible until now, every animals have some parts of their body that serves as their defense.

This monkey? They are so-so. Their eyes ain't any better than the others, so with their ears, nose and skin.

Are they weak? Not really, they are really good long runner, which even tigers cannot beat them at this competition.

Were they vulnerable? Yes.

But could they protect themselves?,being a so-so animal in terms of power and senses ability? Yes.

Consciousness, which isn't really visible physically happened to be a one strong feature of this species.

Lions, tigers, wolves, can hear opponents from very far distances, know the strength of their opponents just by hearing their voices. Humans? Far by skill level compared to cats and dogs families.

But when it comes to cat attacks to human population during our ancestor time?

Beware their sticks and stones. Is that all of the power that our ancestor had?

No, awareness let them know how to drain their predators' energy and stamina. No guns, no tanks, no bazooka at that time.

And they were very patient and effective.

From the prey becoming predator in the battle of durability and cooperation versus strength and speed.

Even the cats' intelligence cannot really calculate the size of the population of this monkey, making them afraid when they smell them.

Against reptilian? These monkey also had their ways to kill them, and used parts of their bodies as accessories for a show off.

Fast forward, compared to the slow 150 million years of development during dinosaur time, it was like a blink of an eye, that this evicted monkey now have settled in more parts of the worlds more evenly compared to their other mammals family.

Beyond that, they even went outside of the planets and thinking to inhabit some places they never visit.

Did anybody ever think that it was the earth's natural defense mechanism that paved the way for consciousness to develop in homo sapiens?

I mean that 150 million years was wasted, when inhabitants didn't even know there was a big danger that was going to threaten the places where they seek for foods, breed and shelter.

Now, some inhabitants know, and aware if the big rocks they call home is under threats. It just happens so naturally, but yet, the fact is there.

I mean consciousness never really evolved when earth was at its capacity to harbor giants (when air was supercharged by oxygen).

Note: some scientists disputed this, may be some reptilians had consciousness. But artifacts showed no sign of high level intelligence animals. This is also a fact.

It was quite amazing, why with the abundant resources, no life-beings in the earth developed a system that could protect their home from external threats, or at the very least, develop a civilization like we are now.

If the earth is a person, may be it will say "I am now better prepared with my child now". Even if "not today, one day my child will know more."

"Yes, they destroy everything now, but they are just kids. They won't when they grow up."

Some in Quora forum expressed their concerns that they lost the faith in humanity?

Even if an introvert I am, which makes me enjoy more privacy more, but my faith to humanity never fades away, as I try to connect all the dots.

Aren't we all the child of the mother earth? as she breastfeed us through our biological mom?, and as she keeps on feeding us through various nutrients?

Now? We are may be a toddler, we still cannot, unable and incapable of defending ourselves and yet the entire family.

But when we grow up? Can you imagine what will happen?

The first time we were awaken already made a big difference, what happen when we start "working"?

May be consciousness was there for a purpose? Human now has consciousness + natural animal instinct.

The natural instinct never dies, even when we grow our consciousness.

The very basic needs of a living being is to preserve themselves.

Even brainless living beings, and half-living beings, bacteria and virus, they want to remain exist.

Cells will not stop replicating, and evolve as we speak.

While other animals share the same instinct, they are not gifted to comprehend what is around them, yet to comprehend the big picture.

Many scientific predictions say that in millions, billions to trillion years from now, habitable planets in the universe may get a lot more limited.

Planets and stars will collide as galaxies merge each others before getting further away from the others. The stars we will look at will not be the same anymore 1000, 1 million years from now.

Did the dinosaur even know that?

It looks like it had been a big waste of time, compared to the blink of an eye of human civilization growth. Now the mother earth has her newly evolved child, a different one.

It will be different now.

Although the narrative above still sounds like superstition, more scientific answers today are leaning to random causalities:
- that our ancestors were lucky that the big giant predators were wiped out, allowing them to flourish to the land from their hide.
- From the insignificant to the most powerful, just because of they were being aware, and awaken from unconsciousness. The fact is so amazing.

Given this supremacy, it is a non-question then: "when threats are about to approach, this consciousness-gifted animal will automatically prepare for their defense (back to my original question, are we a natural earth defense mechanism?).

Who will like to enrich themselves, making fun, enjoying time, when there is no tomorrow or they were in the face of extinction.

Shouldn't this argument make us, the homo sapiens share the big responsibilities to preserve lives on earth, just like we want to preserve our descendants?

Our very basic needs and desire is to keep on multiplying, coz the algorithm orders every living cells to keep on replicating, evolve and adapt.

May be consciousness wasn't just there for granted and there is a purpose why we were granted such ability?

May be we are the earth's natural defender? Or not at all?

Now we still cannot defend our home if similar catastrophe happens in the future.

Out of this random time luxury (we don't know may be tomorrow our planets hit by other comments?),we continue evolve, by technology, by efforts to preserve and extend our age?

May be, yes, in the future we could reach Civilization 1.0 type or even 2.0, as defined by Kardashev scale based on energy use.

Our ability to dream, not just during sleep time (thanks to awareness) but also in the day time, has allowed proliferation of galactic war movies, as dream and imagination usually reach the destinations first before the real abilities could get there.

(Yes, in the past we dream of flying, now we can).

Back to my original question, in a question where no-one can answer precisely, if we are earth's defense mechanism, aren't we supposedly act like we are?

Not wasting the luxury time (given by random chances),

Or it needs a push first like when we were pushed out of the trees, before humans can really forge the civilization into the next level?

Now we have an advantage of awareness.

Back then when we were pushed out of trees, we didn't.

YET, we don't have advantages to comprehend all the scientific mystery.

Sadly we can't even understand our own creation. Some still disputed our origin. The more we know the more we ask.

Should we wait for the next ability, so that we could act accordingly? being the life protector and defender?

May be the next evolution could answer it, may be it is when human brains connected to computer chips?

May be when vulnerabilities and physical time decay is becoming less problems?

I could only wish being able to witness it, when our children answers all of those questions (I believe they will one day).

But unlucky me, this awareness will later be torn apart and destroyed, and some parts of me will be recycled into the earth's energy cycle system.

It is what it is, I have no complaints, I imagine myself is like a monkey playing a smartphone.

I will never comprehend.

But different to monkeys, my awareness is telling me that in the future, some parts of me will understand (monkeys don't have this) how smartphone works.

That is enough to cheer me up.


My gratitude to other forum members who posted these topics, which I enjoyed reading:

Black Holes Don't Exist! (remix)

Properties of Big Bang Theory:

The physical nature / origin of TIME:


And many more, which I will read.

Me
June 2021

Note: a big thanks to @slant , who introduced me quotes now at the top of my favorite list:

I think therefore I am.
I feel therefore I am not.
 
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One obvious way to parse your question is between theist and atheist lines.

I think almost all theists, if not all, naturally believe consciousness has a purpose.
 
One obvious way to parse your question is between theist and atheist lines.

I think almost all theists, if not all, naturally believe consciousness has a purpose.

You just hit the right angle @o2b, my futuristic mind still unable to comprehend, too, what will happen to theism when mankind spread lives to other planets.

I wish in my lifetime somebody crack the code of that Stephen Hawkings multiple universe theory, I wish to see it with my eyes how mankind evolves beyond mother earth territory and even universe.

I really love putting Einsten and Darwin pictures in my room, I think both have great contributions for cracking some scientific mysteries (though not complete).
 
You just hit the right angle @o2b, my futuristic mind still unable to comprehend, too, what will happen to theism when mankind spread lives to other planets.

I wish in my lifetime somebody crack the code of that Stephen Hawkings multiple universe theory, I wish to see it with my eyes how mankind evolves beyond mother earth territory and even universe.

I really love putting Einsten and Darwin pictures in my room, I think both have great contributions for cracking some scientific mysteries (though not complete).
At a high-level with a theist view, I'll offer a couple of my thoughts.

1. God is love which is the principle of esteeming all others above oneself (think Christ washing the disciples feet, for example).
2. God chose to create.
3. We now have the following dilemma. It is like the proverbial mom who appeals to her son to please not touch the hot stove. The pressing issue is called innocence. That little boy is not the beneficiary of a level of persuasion that a burn victim would likely have. That burn victim knows by personal experience that one does not want to touch the hot stove. In other words, evil is sure to be touched.
4. God manages reality within the parameters of the temporary existence of evil. When He is finished, the entirety of His creation is so settled in their minds that evil is not a viable existence, that the universe is henceforth immunized from ever touching evil again.

While there are certain specific things I believe one can do, at the very least, be an advocate for love.

That's pretty much where I am at.
 
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One obvious way to parse your question is between theist and atheist lines.

I think almost all theists, if not all, naturally believe consciousness has a purpose.

I just rephrased my questions.
 
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As long the bulk of human thinking is built on a foundation of materialism where basically all is seen is just sacks of meat then this will always be an issue and will say that such thinking leads down some roads best not traveled. Overall I honestly hate this cognitive/mental template that it cuts everything that would have brought any resemblance of meaning let alone purpose of human existence. Oh well such minds brought us mad science like the neutron bomb and vx nerve gas.

 
Consciousness and responsibility?
Only when I have consciousness can I have responsibility. That is also fine. However, I have noticed lately that people like to give us ordinary citizens a guilty conscience.
I don't want to waste anything, I don't leave water running unnecessarily, or electrical appliances switched on for no purpose.
And yet there's always a superego breathing down your neck that wants to spoil your life.
I have never in my life thrown a plastic bag into a river, so that it would arrive in the sea at some point and wrap itself around a poor turtle, which I
then have to watch on television later.
And then someone stands there again with a raised index finger and tells me:
It's your fault!
Or why are there countries to which my country throws billions in money, and yet people die of hunger there?
Am I to blame for that?
I think not!
It is the corrupt governments that need the money for their castles and their weapons to protect themselves from their own people.
Or the stock companies, which are only on growth, but do not think about the welfare of the individual.
Am I responsible because I have money in the bank?
I don't think so.
All these people who are in charge are very smart.
Being smart, that's so important. But they are also greedy, envious and evil in my eyes.
They also have children and spouses to whom they give their love.
Are these people also saying that they are not responsible for the suffering in the world?
I think they are.
So what is the difference between me and these people?
What is in my power to protect the world?
 
Consciousness and responsibility?
Only when I have consciousness can I have responsibility. That is also fine. However, I have noticed lately that people like to give us ordinary citizens a guilty conscience.
I don't want to waste anything, I don't leave water running unnecessarily, or electrical appliances switched on for no purpose.
And yet there's always a superego breathing down your neck that wants to spoil your life.
I have never in my life thrown a plastic bag into a river, so that it would arrive in the sea at some point and wrap itself around a poor turtle, which I
then have to watch on television later.
And then someone stands there again with a raised index finger and tells me:
It's your fault!
Or why are there countries to which my country throws billions in money, and yet people die of hunger there?
Am I to blame for that?
I think not!
It is the corrupt governments that need the money for their castles and their weapons to protect themselves from their own people.
Or the stock companies, which are only on growth, but do not think about the welfare of the individual.
Am I responsible because I have money in the bank?
I don't think so.
All these people who are in charge are very smart.
Being smart, that's so important. But they are also greedy, envious and evil in my eyes.
They also have children and spouses to whom they give their love.
Are these people also saying that they are not responsible for the suffering in the world?
I think they are.
So what is the difference between me and these people?
What is in my power to protect the world?
At the time when the natural filtering process is taking place and, the survival of the fittest process is going on I believe you may notice that the level of wisdom of the society is improving.

During this pandemic situation and after (if we ever survive), a lot has and will change.
Some took a chance to get greedy, some got more corrupt as the chaotic situation has made their stealing goes unnoticed.

But may be we need to remember our history?

It is about the common enemy that united us,

hasnt the history has shown us?

People who are greedy, envious and evil that u mentioned will always exist in this world, but I believe they will slowly outnumbered by wiser people,

and dont forget our children is growing up and will be growing up differently? After and during this crisis, their logic of the baby boomer? Or The Gen X, and goes on to Y, be shaped by this very fundamental question "will I survive this?"

'Our friends have gone, what am I looking for right now?

If not the virus that kills me, I will die hungry coz of economics problems? Both equally share heavy negative impacts

Mindkind's history has always been shaped by more improvements after crisis.

We wont live this prosper without the internet wont we? If not because of the technology invented for war purposes?

It is this Fermi Paradox illustration I am wondering whether we will pass our evolutionary barriers or not.

Noone can answer

It is too much speculating for little knowledge we know.

What I am saying, "jt is what it is that we have right now,"

did we ever complain before when we didnt use mobile phones?

When it wasnt invented? Some unhappy tech inventors werent happy but did we care? Or even notice this need? Or even imagined me and u talking right now, anonymously without we ever met or even heard ur voice.

We knew fixed line phone had helped enough that time, but there are also always some who are not happy with what they have, be it good or bad.

Didnt we remember our bad stories (the royalties' cruelty against their people) which has happened lesser and lesser nowadays after we pushed for democracy concept?

Hasnt it the society is slowly growing up? (like a blink of an eye if we compare to length of dynosaur ruling the earth)

Coz the nature is, we want to survive.

Today's homo sapiens have survival instinct (getting stronger) + animal instinct + cognitive ability.

Everybody rethink about their values.
I have seen in business area, people tend to forget old sins and now the survivors join forces coz life is a lot harder nowadays, money is harder to look.

Some still stay evil, cheat and greedy, but against the common enemy how this can stand? And for the sake of common interests?

One day these people will be outnumbered.

I have seen some, some expressions, a different one, like people who realized and asked themselves:

what was I looking for in the past?
Now friends, and somefamily died of Covid,
will I survive?
Will we survive?
If we survive, then what s next?
We dont want to plague our children right?

Cant u see we are heading that way?

OR

if we are Not, then we are heading into the self destruction path as seen in this video,

it is our together barriers,

may be elsewhere there was life somewhere

but the high intelligence beings failed to survive their barriers?

Or they waste their time?

Or just unfortunately out of tims?

There are many may be,

But again our dream has reached its destination, long before we can even settle on answering this question: " how in reality we could get there."

We have dreamed of Civilization type 1.0 and even 2.0 ?

Dreaming, imagining this is the start right,

, the cognitif ability ?

In our galactic war movies?

The same way our stone aged anchestors dreamed and imagining a hom full of foods? Didnt we manage somehow?
The farming from bushing ans huntimg?
The Fire invention?
The Beliefs, all are non physical, unlike a deer's horn or a tiger's claws.

Or roll back to older time, our anchestors during stone age just need to tell their family "beware of crocodile near river."

What did the message recepient do?

They first used their imagination. Rigbt?

Wwmhat I mean is dont worry, it is not your fault, other's fault, it is not their faults

it is about collective ability of our species?

may be hang on a bit more?

We will get there, as past history told us

, or if we failed at least we will leave some relic.

The dynosaur only left their bones. Not their former skyscrappers, or the pyramids.

May be we need to enjoy the roller coaster?

Our cognitive ability is far more fun coz we can tell and understand what is fun.

Cats and dogs can feel, but they dont know why.

Again, I am typing as a person who fully realize that my entire awareneas, and cognitive ability, will one day be torn apart, recycled.

Some wont let it go so they think of transfering it into computer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...r-brain-to-a-computer-does-it-become-you-too/

May be next u and me talk in machine forms, no longer this u and me.

May be? Or not, anyway this Kurzgezagt video expains the thinking.


Cheers,

Me
June2 021
 
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@larcipelago
This has now reminded me of the following:

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.
 
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I always felt consciousness's main role in living things was to provide a place for memory. If we woke up everyday without memory, we would have to learn how to walk, brush teeth, drive, etc, everyday. To be conscious about life and death, I think, comes from our knowledge of the evidence around us that living things die. But don't quote me because I never studied this stuff. I'm just good for a few Jeopardy questions on the topic, if that.
 
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Why assume that consciousness is human-specific?

Additionally, what is the working definition of "consciousness"? There exist many definitions of "consciousness".
 
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95% of the opening post could have been replaced with: many very successful species didn't have consciousness, but then we evolved.


Anyhow, forward PLANNING and innovation require a consciousness. The ability to reflect on the past, and imagine oneself in similar future situations, but with imagined better outcomes and methods isn't possible unless one can picture oneself doing things in dozens of hypothetical scenarios.
 
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And the initial question referred expressly to whether the consciousness of the human being fulfills a purpose and not whether there are still other life forms with consciousness.
Besides, we can start only from ourselves. And I at least know that I have a consciousness, and I seem to be a descendant of Homo Sapiens.
 
And the initial question referred expressly to whether the consciousness of the human being fulfills a purpose and not whether there are still other life forms with consciousness.
Besides, we can start only from ourselves. And I at least know that I have a consciousness, and I seem to be a descendant of Homo Sapiens.

I would assume that all you ever know is what is known within the field of consciousness. For someone to objectify and object "consciousness" as my consciousness they would have to be speaking from an objective point of view "consciousness" without a subject. As Rupert Spira would put it, all that is known is the knowing of experience.
 
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And the initial question referred expressly to whether the consciousness of the human being fulfills a purpose and not whether there are still other life forms with consciousness.
Besides, we can start only from ourselves. And I at least know that I have a consciousness, and I seem to be a descendant of Homo Sapiens.

It's utterly irrelevant questioning "whether things are real, subjective, or imaginary". It's impossible to resolve, so besides a simple acknowledgement of the question when you're about 12yrs old, the only important questions are about the things you can observe/experience/imagine, their manner of interaction, their causes, and their potential. Whether you're building a house out of real matter, building an imaginary building for your imaginary body, or rearranging information on a 2d surface at the boundary of a holographic universe is entirely irrelevant to the necessity of building a house.
 
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