My INFJ friends, counsel me.

[hughnibley]

Let me paint a picture for you. I'm quite ENTP, and most everything that comes with that. I'm intellectual, inventive, playful, and relatively complex and enigmatic (even to myself.) I understand myself well, with a few exceptions.

The one area that still eludes me, is when it comes to... relationships. I don't lack for confidence; or more accurately, there is almost nothing that intimidates me. It isn't this brave thing either; I'm really just not intimidated.

But to take this a step further, While I often seem aloof, I'm anything but. I look at everyone around me, and analyze things, and I do quantify everything I see (to the best of my ability), but it doesn't negate my normal human desire for connection.

However, while I used to date a lot, I'm largely bored with the entire thing. It usually ends the same. I go out with a girl, she seemed funny, witty, insightful, or something like that at first (else, why ask her out?), but it doesn't pan out. Sometimes, within a few minutes of the date, she seems so... dull. It isn't that she is a good person, just... uhhh... not for me.

When I look at my history, I see that it was the INFx's that I always did well with (damn you for being right MBTI!) But things brings up a problem. I'm extroverted, even very extroverted. It is fun for me to walk into a room full of strangers, take control of a conversation, lead it on a random tangent, and then drop it. And watch as people stumble around trying to pick up the pieces. Hilarious. That is just an example. But, like that... most of my interactions are quite bombastic. I show up with a bang, pull some stunt, and then laugh as people try to make sense of what just happened.

But this is a big problem; because that is just one aspect of my personality. My strong Ne is complimented by an equally strong Ti. And I yearn for deeper connection with people, but don't quite know how to do it.

This leads me to my hypothesis. (Yes, I am using scientific terms in connection with relationships, love, feelings, etc.) I think that my... outward demeanor can be intimidating/scaring/unappealing to I's? Or, possibly connected to that, I have trouble seeing the deeper introverts around me. So, I end up with this constant stream of girls that are brave (or stupid) enough to ignore my outward demeanor, and think that my personality is equivalent to 'light-hearted-fun.' And sometimes it is, but that is merely a small portion of 'me.' How do I find these people I'm overlooking? Because I refuse to believe that the entire world is as superficial and dense as the balance of the women I've been dating recently.

So, drawing upon your wonderful Fe, how the heck does someone like me find and make connections with deeper types? Those who are as intuitive as myself, but probably far better at emotional connection/matters than I am? Because I'm largely stumped.

Come on! Fix me!

 

[alcyone]

There is no fix for this. Chances are you're attracting the F's like flies to honey. But you aren't picking up on their subtle cues that they are digging you.

Where as the 'brave' ones are more obvious in their approach. Do you play poker?

If so then good. You have a leg up. You must start learning the INFX 'tells'.

 

[hughnibley]

There is no fix for this. Chances are you're attracting the F's like flies to honey. But you aren't picking up on their subtle cues that they are digging you.

Where as the 'brave' ones are more obvious in their approach. Do you play poker?

If so then good. You have a leg up. You must start learning the INFX 'tells'.

lol. I am apparently clueless what the INFx tells are. I do play poker, and am extremely good at reading other people's intentions... except when it involves me. I can look at the interactions of any other two people and tell immediately what they each feel; but directed at myself, it becomes extremely difficult.

If I could watch them interact with me (ie, as a third person), then I think I'd see it. But I don't, first person =(

So, I'm sure the answer is as varied as people are... but what sort of signs are we talking about?

 

[alcyone]

I would think that being an ENTP you are quite capable of putting yourself in a Observer position. I think you may be a bit insecure when trying to apply what you are observing in relation to yourself however. Maybe a bit of fear there no?

Anyhow....I can only speak for myself. But those I was romantically interested...I would seek oppurtunities to spend time with the person. Make asual contact. Racy jokes and suggestive comments that were only partially playful...and partly serious. Me thinks of a time when an interest of mine made a comment about where to find a couch following a double entendre exchange....and I told him 'Let's go'...he grabbed my hand and started walking.... If he had actually followed through and we had ended up at the couch I was perfectly prepared to walk the walk as it were *chuckles at fond memories*

Anyhow. Look for eye contact...casual touches. If someone makes something for you....like banana bread or muffins....or remembers whats important to you.... i.e you had an interview or meeting or such and such and they ask you about what happened. It means they are paying attention to you. If they offer to help!

There is another couple threads around here with more stuff....you may want to hunt through those for more.

 

[Final]

lol. I am apparently clueless what the INFx tells are. I do play poker, and am extremely good at reading other people's intentions... except when it involves me. I can look at the interactions of any other two people and tell immediately what they each feel; but directed at myself, it becomes extremely difficult.

If I could watch them interact with me (ie, as a third person), then I think I'd see it. But I don't, first person =(

So, I'm sure the answer is as varied as people are... but what sort of signs are we talking about?

It sounds like you have trouble dissociating yourself from the analysis. Have you tried viewing the situation between you and someone else as objectively as possible, treating yourself like a third person?

Regarding trying to attract INFXs, go for the mouse in the corner and start up a one-on-one conversation.
By the way, I'm solely basing that off Jondalar from Jean Auel's Earth's Children series, who the author said was an ENTP and who had similar reasons for being so logical (reasons I got from the other thread you commented on).

...or you could always volunteer for the local suicide hotline. There's bound to be some there, right? freaking psych majors...

 

[hughnibley]

Oh, I absolutely cannot disassociate myself when it comes to romantic interest. It is like a completely different (and unused) area of my brain takes over processing.

If I didn't care, then it would be extremely easy. Because when I don't care (95% of interactions in my life) the end result doesn't matter. So, I can do whatever I want and the outcome isn't good or bad, it just 'is'. But the same is not true in this realm, where sadly, I do care. This doesn't mean I'm paralyzed with fear or anything of the sort; it just means that my brain interprets the situation differently than most situations; and then I don't know what I'm looking at.

Or to explain it more clearly; virtually nothing in my life is emotional. Sometimes things that evoke very negative emotional responses in others, are invigorating for me. So, when I find myself on emotional ground, I am extremely... uhhh... lost. I'm just not there very often. But I have had very positive emotional experiences in relationships (as referenced before, my INFx's), and it is something I continue to desire. More, I think it is essential for my development and growth as a person I go that route.

But so far, this is helpful. So, when I find the scared mouse in the corner, what then? It seems like when I've attempted to do this in the past, they've seemed... uhhh... more scared, haha.

It is like they either don't quite make the connect between me tossing a carefully crafted, unique and witty question their way, that I am showing interest. Or, when I make a statement about the two of us that excludes everyone else in attendance, that I am trying very hard to show her that she is the only one in the room that stands out to me. Or? Maybe they do get it, and I'm clueless to positive responses.

 

[darkstar]

OOOH, Relationships, My favorite subject.

First off, your pic is totally throwing me off.. WAHHH

So, you desire a deeper connection with people, but don't know how.

The way I build deeper connections isn't so much "Hanging out" a lot, but talking a lot.

What you might try is using the parties to get the "extrovert" out of your system and look elsewhere for the INFXs.

The best way to bring an INFX out of their shell is to get them to talk about the deeper mysteries inside their mind. Some INFX's don't talk about those things to a lot of people because they either don't understand or don't care.

Also, any INFX should theoretically like one on one time.

The signals posted by alcyone are dead on for INFX's (though they never seem to work the other way round, i.e. I'm the INFJ guy seeking ENXX girl)

Also, check out my topic on love-shyness, a lot of it has little to do with fear and a lot to do with clueless about picking up signals. I'm the same way, anyone else, and I can read signals perfectly. When directed towards me however, and I'm clueless.

off topic reflection (maybe that's why I like 3rd person games more than first person ones... HM.)

 

[darkstar]

But so far, this is helpful. So, when I find the scared mouse in the corner, what then? It seems like when I've attempted to do this in the past, they've seemed... uhhh... more scared, haha.

It is like they either don't quite make the connect between me tossing a carefully crafted, unique and witty question their way, that I am showing interest. Or, when I make a statement about the two of us that excludes everyone else in attendance, that I am trying very hard to show her that she is the only one in the room that stands out to me. Or? Maybe they do get it, and I'm clueless to positive responses.

To make it easier on you "mice", don't put them on the spot. Be casual and, understanding, for lack of a better word. Try to imagine how they would feel and what response would work (easier said than done)

One thing I have noticed with myself, when it comes to reading signals, they have to be VERY exact. Any ambiguity and I tend to brush them off as social nuances. Witty doesn't work nearly as well as sincerity with us (at least in my experience).

To show her that she is standing out to you, you have to physically remove her from other people. In my experience it is even harder to read signals when there is more social stimuli. It will be hard to send and receive the right signals in the midst of people.

 

[Eeyore]

I guess the issue is how to show the INFx person you are interested without scaring them away?

I have a hard time identifying ENTx. I can only speculate, drawing from my own understanding, that INFJs do not usually open themselves up to others freely unless the other person does too. I am curious, what is it about INFx people that ENTx people find attractive???? I don't really understand all the types myself and I may be over-generalizing here but I sometimes get the feeling that extroverts will eventually find the introverts too boring, too uptight, too deep for them and end up preferring similar extroverts....

 

[gOpHeR]

If someone makes something for you....like banana bread or muffins.

I've never had someone make me banana bread or muffins as a come on. If they did, I think I would be so perplexed I'd have to ask them to marry me.

 

[hughnibley]

I guess the issue is how to show the INFx person you are interested without scaring them away?

I have a hard time identifying ENTx. I can only speculate, drawing from my own understanding, that INFJs do not usually open themselves up to others freely unless the other person does too. I am curious, what is it about INFx people that ENTx people find attractive???? I don't really understand all the types myself and I may be over-generalizing here but I sometimes get the feeling that extroverts will eventually find the introverts too boring, too uptight, too deep for them and end up preferring similar extroverts....

Extroverts aren't deep? Muy Interesante. Seems like a relatively large generalization to apply to both introverts and extroverts.

The thing I do like about introverts is they are deep. ENTP's, especially, love the complex. We don't want someone that is simple, and your idea of exciting is unlikely to be an ENTP's idea of exciting. Even at friendship level, I LOVE introverts/shy people. When I befriend them and get them to open up, I feel like I'm part of this exclusive club no one else is privy to.

More, especially in the case of INFx's, the introverted intuition and extroverted feeling is highly desirable. We need (and many of us want) someone to balance us out in those areas.

I used to think that I only liked Extroverts, but those relationships always exploded, fantastically, but still exploded. No, with a sufficiently developed INFx, I feel like not only do they have much to offer, including a sustainable relationship, but I have much to offer them too (both are equally important.)

 

[Eeyore]

Extroverts aren't deep? Muy Interesante. Seems like a relatively large generalization to apply to both introverts and extroverts.

The thing I do like about introverts is they are deep. ENTP's, especially, love the complex. We don't want someone that is simple, and your idea of exciting is unlikely to be an ENTP's idea of exciting. Even at friendship level, I LOVE introverts/shy people. When I befriend them and get them to open up, I feel like I'm part of this exclusive club no one else is privy to.

More, especially in the case of INFx's, the introverted intuition and extroverted feeling is highly desirable. We need (and many of us want) someone to balance us out in those areas.

I used to think that I only liked Extroverts, but those relationships always exploded, fantastically, but still exploded. No, with a sufficiently developed INFx, I feel like not only do they have much to offer, including a sustainable relationship, but I have much to offer them too (both are equally important.)

That's really interesting, Hugh. Thanks for letting me in on the world of ENTPs. I did not quite understand before so I really appreciate your sharing and your honesty. I am beginning to understand a bit more now. It's intriguing how you find the introverted intuition and extroverted feeling desirable when I find my extroverted feeling sometimes a liability... it gets me into trouble a lot.. I often wish I can be more of a P instead of J, a little less F and more T, more easy-going, more quick-witted, etc.

 

[alcyone]

I've never had someone make me banana bread or muffins as a come on. If they did, I think I would be so perplexed I'd have to ask them to marry me.

That was always my favorite way of showing interest.

 

[arbygil]

I love me some ENTP nonsense. They make me laugh like no one else. If you can slay her with humor, you have her - seriously!

 

[Lynx]

I'm guilty of baking/cooking to show my interest. It didn't get me anywhere. *laughs*

I agree with the 'tells' that were listed before. You may not have to look for a 'mouse' though.... I'm an intensely confident female and have no problem telling the world that if they challenge me to do so... But the challenge must be there.
I show interest with eye contact, remembering some ridiculous detail, brushing up against that person or finding a reason to touch them briefly. I'm not outwardly direct about it usually but if a girl is watching you - pay attention. And not the Bambi-eyed "Ohhhhhhhh" watching but the slightly amused, knowing, almost looking at you like you're crazy look.
My boyfriend is a very strong Extrovert. Your description of you reminds me of him a bit.

 

[amethyst]

hello i'm new to this so not really sure if i'm doing it right but sure i'll give it a go anyway!
I have to say i agree totally with the above post..... find the girl that's looking at you and analysing you. I am not a mouse in the corner at parties either but it does take alot to attract my interest in a guy and the best way to do it is by way of intrigue.
I think the best thing you can do is just be honest, genuine and open with someone that you are interested and if they are INFJ they should be able to see that you are genuine. If someone was acting outlandishly like you described earlier I would probably suspect a false bravado first and foremost, which if then combined with true, honest communication would certainly have me wondering....