Michael Jackson on the phone

[sedna]

First let me say this is a horrible, horrible invasion of Michael Jackson's privacy. I do feel a lot of guilt in listening to these telephone conversations and posting them. But I can't stop. These calls are a terrific study of MJs true typology to ignore, especially since he wasn't in a situation where he had to 'perform' for others and could totally let his guard down. It's a shame that the person on the other end of the line wasn't a true 'friend.' More like a fiend.

Since I stumbled on these clips yesterday, I've listened to every lilt in his voice, the cadence, the disappointments, him putting his foot down, him being mischievousness, his unmet desires, his relationships to other people, and I'm trying really hard to seperate myself from him. After listening to numerous interviews and now these hidden telephone convos, I am convinced Michael was an INFJ.

Nobody's ever argued Mike's enneagram type - he's a clear 4w3. But as far as his MBTI, I've heard all kinds of crazy stuff...the craziest...Mike as an ISFP. This is a rdiciulous assumption if you've actually listened to Michael speak at length about the things that fascinated him in life. He was clearly more interested in the unseen, the intangible concepts, theories, than the here-and-now. And again, it would be inauthentic of me to let this go by...but in light of the last conversation I had on these forums I've realized some white people (even white INFJs) seem to have cloudy judgement when relating to black people due to their unacknowledged racial prejudices which might result in judgements like this --> Michael can dance --> he's black --> therefore that means he's an S type.

Absolutely hilarious.

The other type I hear often (and I too was convinced of this for a while) was that he was an INFP. It seems likely given his gentleness, his love of children & animals, his childlikeness. But I believe INFJs share those same traits too. INFJs seem to age in reverse. We seem to have an adult knowingness and heaviness in childhood but as we age and we embrace silliness and are less encumbered by the heaviness of life. Also, INFPs seem less demanding, less specific, more willowy than INFJs and more willing to compromise and try different possibilities. In comparing myself to the INFPs I've known intimately, they can date people they marginally like and hope it will work out for the best. And certainly, by a reasonable age they will settle into relationships, totally accepting the other person for who they are. All this is much more difficult for an INFJ, especially one that comes from a background similar to MJs.

Ever since his death, I've been crying for Michael Jackson and for myself because the similarities between us eerie...from his eating disorder, the critical father figure, his fieriness, desire for true love despite who loves you, lamenting about the past...everything in these tapes resonates with me.

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[Shaz]

his songs are what makes him appear an S, don't you think? I mean, they're not the deepest stuff are they?

There is the dancing also. That looks like it would take some great Se. No?

I mean, he was so traumatised as a kid it's hard to type him. He spent all his life trying to fight his childhood. So he's a tricky one. I wouldn't type him as an INFJ but then again you probably know more after having listened to those conversations. I guess the INFJ conspiracy theorist would work for him

 

[TheLastMohican]

his songs are what makes him appear an S, don't you think? I mean, they're not the deepest stuff are they?

Depth is not determined by S or N. It's not reliably indicated by any of the functions, in fact. It has more to do with life experience and intelligence. Perhaps you can tie "depth" to introspection, in which case introverted intuitives might have an edge, but implying that the opposite is "shallow" goes too far in making generalized value judgments, since by common usage, "shallow" = bad.

 

[Shaz]

Depth is not determined by S or N.

It's true, sorry bout that, I guess I used the wrong word

I should have said : his lyrics are not the most abstract now are they?

edit : It would be interesting to have a discussion about what depth is actually.... because depending on the definition I would have different opinions.

re-edit : damn it you edited in the mean time!! I guess thinking about loving everybody no matter what their skin colour is could be said to be "deep". I will think about what depth means for me and come back later. It is an interesting topic.

7. Intellectual complexity or penetration; profundity: a novel of great depth.
8. The range of one's understanding or competence: I am out of my depth when it comes to cooking.
10. The degree of richness or intensity: depth of color.

To me if you're talking about number 7 (which is what I had in mind) his songs are definitely not deep. I don't know, no, his songs are not deep, maybe he was but I was talking about the songs.

HOWEVER I admit that judging a person on the songs they write is stupid. But it still is a part of him, even if it might just be a small part - I'd have to know him to know.

 

[TheLastMohican]

I should have said : his lyrics are not the most abstract now are they?

I guess not, but what lyrics are? You can't get too abstract in song without losing the listener (even those intuitive ones).
I can see where you tie this to S, though. He was certainly an inventive fellow, but his real genius was in visual spectacle, indicating well-developed Se.

edit : It would be interesting to have a discussion about what depth is actually.... because depending on the definition I would have different opinions.

Good idea. I'm going to start a thread on that right now, in fact.

 

[Shaz]

I guess not, but what lyrics are? You can't get too abstract in song without losing the listener (even those intuitive ones).

You can't get too abstract, but you can get abstract enough and people might read different stuff into your lyrics. To me lyrics are half of a song (except if the song is sooo catchy you can't help listening to it/or even better, the song is in a foreign language and you can't understand its stupidity anyway ).

 

[sedna]

In typing famous people, I think it would be important to distinguish between the ACTUAL PERSONALITY and the personality of the art. I find in many cases it's completely different.

 

[arbygil]

I remember one discussion going around that typed MJ as an INFP, but he could definitely be in a different grouping. And I also have to say, Michael spoke from his heart and he totally changed music in the 1980s. The lyrics might not have been too deep, but his style was unheard of. He put his new on all sorts of things, and I think he could've been very IN.

He was unusual in the way he dealt with the outside world, but that doesn't mean a lot. Wounded folks can also express themselves in a unique way too.

 

[Deleted member 1391]

Considering these are an invasion of his privacy, I refuse to listen to those recordings.

I will agree on the assumption that he was an INFJ though, but little more than a cursory glance is enough to tell you that much.

 

[Zero Angel]

MJ is almost certainly an INF. Vicky Jo (a rather famous MBTI practitioner, also an INFJ -- has typed MJ as an INFJ)

 

[Arg]

The INFPs swear he's an INFP and likewise the INFJs proclaim him one of their own. I lean toward ISFP myself. He seemed to capriciously act upon his impulses rather than theorize about them in some abstract cerebral manner.

MJ shopping spree. Tell me this isn't an SF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2poCP0qL4U

 

[Faye]

Oh no all the types want to claim Michael Jackson now that he is dead.

 

[Lune Froide]

I'm more comfortable leaving the topic of MJ alone but...

We seem to have an adult knowingness and heaviness in childhood but as we age and we embrace silliness and are less encumbered by the heaviness of life.

I enjoyed this immensely. I've actually never come across this perspective but I know it is applicable to myself.

 

[slant]

Waste of my time. Stopped the video. Who wants to see strangers talk about anything other then terorists?

 

[rainrise]

I enjoyed this immensely. I've actually never come across this perspective but I know it is applicable to myself.

it definately applies to me as well, but i'd also say i always had an erratically silly and reckless side to me.

 

[sedna]

I remember one discussion going around that typed MJ as an INFP, but he could definitely be in a different grouping. And I also have to say, Michael spoke from his heart and he totally changed music in the 1980s. The lyrics might not have been too deep, but his style was unheard of. He put his new on all sorts of things, and I think he could've been very IN.

He was unusual in the way he dealt with the outside world, but that doesn't mean a lot. Wounded folks can also express themselves in a unique way too.

I agree, Mike's lyrics weren't too deep but the way he sang them was. Try listening to 'She's out of my life' without crying...his pleading on 'Show you the way to go'...his fire and might in 'they don't care about us.' I think depth is relative and multi-dimensional.

It's easy to discount how innovative Mike was because his music was so woven into the everydayness of our lives. Easy to take for granted. But nobody was doing what he was doing then. Music was very segregated. A black guy who had a long career in soul music, suddenly making rock music and revolutionizing how music was consumed? Unheard of. In many ways we've regressed. Besides TV on the Radio, Santigold and a few others, there aren't too many crossover artists like there were back then with Mike, Prince, Tina, Living Colour. They were original AND mainstream. Nowadays, I notice you're original & underground or pop & popular with the exception of a few people like, say Radiohead or Bjork (but then again these people are my age, not newbies.)

 

[Julia]

I guess not, but what lyrics are? You can't get too abstract in song without losing the listener (even those intuitive ones).
I can see where you tie this to S, though. He was certainly an inventive fellow, but his real genius was in visual spectacle, indicating well-developed Se.

Bob Dylan, Tori Amos, *some* of the Beatles songs, etc have a more abstract philosophical character. I agree that popular music is the domain of the SP in that it focuses it expertise on sensation, immediacy, and the concrete because it needs to affect large amounts of people on first encounter. When lyrics get too abstract or if they require a few hearings before their meaning is apparent, you could lose the sale. I can see that MJ had a gift for communicating sensation and he described his approach to lyrics as primarily being a storyteller. In this way his lyrics have more meaning and cohesion than some, but they also have a concrete clarity. They do involve some imagination on the part of the listener to respond to the story and fill in the details. I'm not suggesting a type with these comments, but am throwing out a few observations that could imply quite a range of conclusions based on how they fit into the big picture of more information.

I don't have a strong opinion on Michael Jackson's type, but remember Lisa Marie Presley talking about him in regards to how different he is irl compared to his online personae. She said when she first heard him talk irl in which he was a bit aggressive, her response was, "this is a very misunderstood person", and she also mentioned that she didn't understand why he insisted on projecting such an extremely gentle image. My primary impression of MJ is that he was quite buried in a media image partly created himself and partly created by the media, including his enemies. Because of this, I suspect most of the reality of it is quite buried.

 

[sedna]

The INFPs swear he's an INFP and likewise the INFJs proclaim him one of their own. I lean toward ISFP myself. He seemed to capriciously act upon his impulses rather than theorize about them in some abstract cerebral manner.

MJ shopping spree. Tell me this isn't an SF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2poCP0qL4U

Arg, that's one of the more fabulous photoshopped pics I've seen of Mike. It's true, everyone in the world is trying to claim him now that he's gone. And his body is still on ice. I still think he's an INFJ though.

I despise Martin Bashir, but I do enjoy this shopping excursion of Michael's to the antique store. But I gotta say you're dead wrong on this.

INFJs hold the design and space elements in their heads for a long time. In a flea market or high-end department store, they act swiftly. And with the same precision and focus displayed in this clip. It's exactly how I shop. No dilly-dallying.

I notice Ss especially SPs need to ask others' opinion a lot and compare colors before making decisions. It's harder for them to figure out the difference between pewter, cornflower, periwinkle and royal blue. They take forever to decide. They have no concept of how the new item will fit with the wardrobe they already have at home. My first career was in fashion and I worked in a high-end retail store when in my teens and twenties. Overwhelmingly, Mike's shopping style is that of an NFJ.

 

[sedna]

Oh no all the types want to claim Michael Jackson now that he is dead.

Even ESTPs?

 

[sedna]

it definately applies to me as well, but i'd also say i always had an erratically silly and reckless side to me.

Lune & Rainrise, I'm a lot more wacky now...shamelessly so. My niece just had a huge sweet 16 party. She called me up to say her friends think I'm so cool and wish their mom's were more like me. Hilarious.