Magical Meditation Corner

[John K]

then stops talking for a couple of minutes and then suddenly comes back in and making you jump by the question "now that you are relaxed-...!" xD

That's funny Impact Character . I find any unexpected noise can make me jump once I've quitened myself down - someone flushes the loo, or a dog barks outside, or something like that and I jump like you say, but then I get a bit pissed off and angry, then I feel guilty 'cos that's not what this is supposed to be about, then I find it all really quite funny and have a bit of a laugh at myself and get back onto the meditation again. It helps to be patient with yourself and have a good sense of humour to persist with it, I think!

 

[Impact Character]

That's funny Impact Character . I find any unexpected noise can make me jump once I've quitened myself down - someone flushes the loo, or a dog barks outside, or something like that and I jump like you say, but then I get a bit pissed off and angry, then I feel guilty 'cos that's not what this is supposed to be about, then I find it all really quite funny and have a bit of a laugh at myself and get back onto the meditation again. It helps to be patient with yourself and have a good sense of humour to persist with it, I think!

*lol* yeah, there is indeed a bit (or more) of an being irritated tone to it.
And about being patient with oneself..that is so true, John. So true! I too ended up laughing about.. can't help it.. when I reflect on myself I deeply enjoy having a good laugh, too. There are some weird parts that just want to be embraced.

I think.. it's really a worthy hindrance of getting distracted, realizing that and nontheless swinging the fishing rod back into the pond..and not quitting.. (I am enjoying this image way too much *giggles*)

 

[flower]

Love these!

 

[Impact Character]

Love these!

*ss* then it was a good decission sharing them <3

 

[Fidicen]

The trouble is that the prayer aspect could derail the main focus of the thread.

I can see how prayer might be comparable to meditation. Actually I've heard two people talking about religion in a similar way: one was a Christian describing a way of focusing on prayer that reminded me of Buddhist practices. He was talking about some kind of medieval technique of exploring your heart. The other one was a lecture by a Buddhist nun (Robina Courtin) who described meditation and recitation and their likeness to prayer. Basically when we're reciting something, could be mantras or Buddhist or Christian scripture, then we're thinking it, and little by little those thoughts become a part of us. So by praying for someone you're developing yourself, becoming more compassionate in the process. In Buddhism that would be some kind of kindness meditation.

What was your first intention/focus? Stop a loop of thoughts (some kind of freeing yourself act).. or letting unconscious thoughts appear (maybe not judging them but just giving them room to be and pass on)?

If I have a loop of thoughts, that can be a strong motivation for starting meditation, but ideally I would do it before such unhealthy loops develop. I'd say my first intention therefore is to free myself, finding existence without distracting thoughts, which can be a pleasant experience. I don't specifically try to become more aware of unconscious thoughts, but that may be a part of the process. Or sometimes it's not even a question of having hidden thoughts or loops, but of how the mind doesn't want to stay still and would rather cling to any unresolved issue or daydream to escape the emptiness. Both can be difficult to accept, the emptiness and the distractions.

I've more trouble with guided exercises.. there is too much going on when I hear the voice of someone.. trying to help me calm down or envision something.

I've had the opposite experience, but I think it greatly depends on the guide. In guided meditation it's sometimes easier to forget myself because I can focus on the other person's voice instead of my own inner chatter.

Maybe you've "programmed" yourself to being drowsy by nature sounds...?

Yes, I think this is it. I got so used to certain sounds that I began to associate them with peace and calmness. I remember once I was on a holiday in a city with a motorway next to the hostel. After a few nights I was able to sleep normally. I guess we can get habituated to all kinds of sounds. It's also not terribly uncommon for people to regularly sleep with the TV or the radio still on, whereas someone who's not used to it couldn't fall asleep at all.

 

[Impact Character]

sidenote:

my green friends on the balcony just had an unusual guest:

(this little guy looked like a humming bird made love to a butterfly ö.ö)​

 

[Skarekrow]

@John K
I think prayer if a fine form of meditation.
(gotta run, will explore more later, take care!)

 

[John K]

sidenote:

my green friends on the balcony just had an unusual guest:

(this little guy looked like a humming bird made love to a butterfly ö.ö)​

Did you take this picture Impact Character?

 

[Impact Character]

Did you take this picture Impact Character?

haha, I wish ^^""
(it's grey and cold here and this small dude was gone before I could find and grab any picture taking device..)

 

[Wyote]

I've wondered whether to make a comment here or not because my experiences of meditation are almost all in the form of contemplative prayer

My parents have been instructors for the contemplative outreach program for the last twenty years, so you are in the right place.
My personal take- whether it's spiritual, mindful, or action oriented is to a certain extent irrelevant depending on where you are at.
Through practice/ritual you will become elucidated to many things. It's a journey.

 

[Wyote]

sidenote

 

[Impact Character]

*lol*
now I'm worried

 

[John K]

I've wondered whether to make a comment here or not because my experiences of meditation are almost all in the form of contemplative prayer

My parents have been instructors for the contemplative outreach program for the last twenty years, so you are in the right place.
My personal take- whether it's spiritual, mindful, or action oriented is to a certain extent irrelevant depending on where you are at.
Through practice/ritual you will become elucidated to many things. It's a journey.

Thank you for this Wyote and for your support - also @Impact Character , @Fidicen and @Skarekrow for your supporting comments as well. My concern really is whether it's best to be a bit careful about introducing a religious element into a thread rather than staying at a more general spiritual level - so I like to make sure it's welcome. It's impossible to talk about meditation experiences in contemplative prayer without the religious angle too. My own take is the same as yours, that there's many paths that can be followed - the journey is the important thing, not the path.

I did wonder if your folks had some connection to contemplative prayer from comments you posted in one of your threads a few years back. It's been some time since I checked out the centering prayer websites so I'll definitely check out the outreach pages. They sound like great people.

 

[Wyote]

I'll definitely check out the outreach pages. They sound like great people.

 

[Impact Character]

Thank you for this Wyote and for your support - also @Impact Character , @Fidicen and @Skarekrow for your supporting comments as well. My concern really is whether it's best to be a bit careful about introducing a religious element into a thread rather than staying at a more general spiritual level - so I like to make sure it's welcome. It's impossible to talk about meditation experiences in contemplative prayer without the religious angle too. My own take is the same as yours, that there's many paths that can be followed - the journey is the important thing, not the path.

I did wonder if your folks had some connection to contemplative prayer from comments you posted in one of your threads a few years back. It's been some time since I checked out the centering prayer websites so I'll definitely check out the outreach pages. They sound like great people.

....please don't worry... ... I just have to warn you.. there is no place further away from religion where I was raised.. so.. .. .I might need some more context every now and then.. I would like to be able to follow ... if it isn't too much trouble for you...?

 

[Skarekrow]

Thank you for this Wyote and for your support - also @Impact Character , @Fidicen and @Skarekrow for your supporting comments as well. My concern really is whether it's best to be a bit careful about introducing a religious element into a thread rather than staying at a more general spiritual level - so I like to make sure it's welcome. It's impossible to talk about meditation experiences in contemplative prayer without the religious angle too. My own take is the same as yours, that there's many paths that can be followed - the journey is the important thing, not the path.

I did wonder if your folks had some connection to contemplative prayer from comments you posted in one of your threads a few years back. It's been some time since I checked out the centering prayer websites so I'll definitely check out the outreach pages. They sound like great people.

Of course John!
Don’t be shy.
I was raised Mormon (I am most certainly not now)...so we were taught contemplative prayer as opposed to say, the books and books of prayers Catholics memorize.
Anyhow...haven’t been to any church since I was 16 (not counting funeral services and marriages).
But I have come to see that both are very powerful tools even when you remove religion from the picture and look at them as speaking to your subconscious self that some think once had a voice like the left brain ego - this was the voice of “God”...until it was overridden by the ego self, and thus was the fall of man from the garden of eden/ignorance=bliss/primitive more instinctual/reactionary, primarily by coming into the power of speech...which the theory goes could have sounded and been perceived by those just evolving such brain functions as being separate from the perceived “self”, and egoless or very basic ego not yet in control brain. *big breath*
lol
Anyhow...or as some postulate, when the ego began to take over, we had no inner dialogue with oneself...this new voice began to appear in the minds of people with our evolution and development of language...and again...there is the idea that the fall of man was the development and “taking over” by the ego...which in it’s younger phase, may have been much more cruel - an idea that is reflected in the progression of “God" in the Bible...until the ego develops empathy, represented by Christ, to once again, free us by trying to realize the power of love and forgiveness and evolve past the eye for an eye mentality of older, more primitive instincts.
Anyhow...it’s a thought.
Even the prayers that are memorized by some have specific pacing to them that is basically breath work combined with chanting.
Both of which are used liberally to achieve a meditative state worldwide.
But contemplative prayer is no different than contemplative meditation from a meditative perspective.
Of course with prayer there can be a further, deeper, more meaningful element for those who believe or have faith in whatever it is they have every right to believe.
But...honestly, when I think about it...both really seem geared to strip one of the ego, in the most basic sense.
Or to invoke a trance-like meditative state where both the religious and non religious meditators have found the primary mystical experience...eden...heaven....nirvana - peace through selflessness.

 

[John K]

....please don't worry... ... I just have to warn you.. there is no place further away from religion where I was raised.. so.. .. .I might need some more context every now and then.. I would like to be able to follow ... if it isn't too much trouble for you...?

Thanks for this - I'll do my best . The calming and centering techniques aren't different from the sorts of things already in the thread so there is no more esoteric mystery about that other than you get in any form of meditation. There are major differences at first sight in what you are hoping to experience and develop within yourself and in terms of how you orient youself in a meditation session - like Wyote implied, I think this is more in the appearance than in the deep reality of where all meditation can take us.

One confusion people may find if they look at meditation in a Christian context is that this word does not always refer to the kind of thing we are discussing in this thread - traditionally Christian meditation is an active mental reflection on a text, or an event, or a teaching. It may be an imagination exercise to put yourself into a scene from the Bible and play it through over and again in your mind. The kind of meditation we are talking about in the thread is called centering prayer, or contemplative prayer, where part of the aim is to calm and free your mind of all external awareness, all thought and your sense of self.

 

[John K]

Of course John!
Don’t be shy.
I was raised Mormon (I am most certainly not now)...so we were taught contemplative prayer as opposed to say, the books and books of prayers Catholics memorize.
Anyhow...haven’t been to any church since I was 16 (not counting funeral services and marriages).
But I have come to see that both are very powerful tools even when you remove religion from the picture and look at them as speaking to your subconscious self that some think once had a voice like the left brain ego - this was the voice of “God”...until it was overridden by the ego self, and thus was the fall of man from the garden of eden/ignorance=bliss/primitive more instinctual/reactionary, primarily by coming into the power of speech...which the theory goes could have sounded and been perceived by those just evolving such brain functions as being separate from the perceived “self”, and egoless or very basic ego not yet in control brain. *big breath*
lol
Anyhow...or as some postulate, when the ego began to take over, we had no inner dialogue with oneself...this new voice began to appear in the minds of people with our evolution and development of language...and again...there is the idea that the fall of man was the development and “taking over” by the ego...which in it’s younger phase, may have been much more cruel - an idea that is reflected in the progression of “God" in the Bible...until the ego develops empathy, represented by Christ, to once again, free us by trying to realize the power of love and forgiveness and evolve past the eye for an eye mentality of older, more primitive instincts.
Anyhow...it’s a thought.
Even the prayers that are memorized by some have specific pacing to them that is basically breath work combined with chanting.
Both of which are used liberally to achieve a meditative state worldwide.
But contemplative prayer is no different than contemplative meditation from a meditative perspective.
Of course with prayer there can be a further, deeper, more meaningful element for those who believe or have faith in whatever it is they have every right to believe.
But...honestly, when I think about it...both really seem geared to strip one of the ego, in the most basic sense.
Or to invoke a trance-like meditative state where both the religious and non religious meditators have found the primary mystical experience...eden...heaven....nirvana - peace through selflessness.

Thanks for this Skare - as usual you've sparked off some really interesting thoughts, but it's getting late here so I'll come back on this tomorrow.

 

[Wyote]

@John K this might interest you if you have some extra time on your hands
I've had some remarkable experiences through Lectio Divina

 

[John K]

@John K this might interest you if you have some extra time on your hands
I've had some remarkable experiences through Lectio Divina

Many thanks for this Wyote. It’s quite a while since I listened to one of Thomas Keating’s videos. Just played the first 10 minutes and I’m definitely coming back for the rest. I’ve been to lectio divina groups in the past but not used it explicitly as a private exercise like this so I’m very interested to follow it through.