Legalize drugs - all of them! | INFJ Forum

Legalize drugs - all of them!

I agree completely.

For me, this is right up there with gay marriage in terms of 'why the f--k hasn't this happened yet?'.
 
The fact that people break the current laws and get themselves into serious trouble is not an indicator that the laws should be dropped. Rather, I think a mandatory death penalty for those guilty of trafficking drugs - with a very zealous and well funded enforcement would be a better solution.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
The fact that people break the current laws and get themselves into serious trouble is not an indicator that the laws should be dropped. Rather, I think a mandatory death penalty for those guilty of trafficking drugs - with a very zealous and well funded enforcement would be a better solution.
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However it is an indicator that a significant part of the population wants to engage in drug use, so it would be prudent to reconsider 'why did we make this illegal in the first place?'.
 
The article made some good points. I can't see it happening in America's immediate future, though.

The impact it had on Portugal was pretty impressive. Of course there's a big difference between legalizing drugs and decriminalizing them.
 
I completely agree with John Lennon's assessment of drugs and the drug culture (from the 1980 David Sheff interview, taking about his song Cold Turkey):

"They're so stupid about drugs! They're always arresting smugglers or kids with a few joints in their pocket. They never face the reality. They're not looking at the cause of the drug problem. Why is everybody taking drugs? To escape from what? Is life so terrible? Do we live in such a terrible situation that we can't do anything about it without reinforcement from alcohol or tobacco or sleeping pills? I'm not preaching about 'em. I'm just saying a drug is a drug, you know. Why we take them is important, not who's selling it to whom on the corner."

Why we take them should be a topic valued higher than persecution of the people peddling them. If we want the sickness to go away, we have to go to the root. Why are people so upset that they inject poison into their veins? Reality doesn't suck - something makes it suck. Let's find out what that is, together.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
The fact that people break the current laws and get themselves into serious trouble is not an indicator that the laws should be dropped. Rather, I think a mandatory death penalty for those guilty of trafficking drugs - with a very zealous and well funded enforcement would be a better solution.
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Wow, death penalty?
 
vandyke said:
I completely agree with John Lennon's assessment of drugs and the drug culture (from the 1980 David Sheff interview, taking about his song Cold Turkey):

"They're so stupid about drugs! They're always arresting smugglers or kids with a few joints in their pocket. They never face the reality. They're not looking at the cause of the drug problem. Why is everybody taking drugs? To escape from what? Is life so terrible? Do we live in such a terrible situation that we can't do anything about it without reinforcement from alcohol or tobacco or sleeping pills? I'm not preaching about 'em. I'm just saying a drug is a drug, you know. Why we take them is important, not who's selling it to whom on the corner."

Why we take them should be a topic valued higher than persecution of the people peddling them. If we want the sickness to go away, we have to go to the root. Why are people so upset that they inject poison into their veins? Reality doesn't suck - something makes it suck. Let's find out what that is, together.
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One valid aspect of the argument imo. If people want to do drugs, they're gonna do drugs. If they can't consume the illegal kind it will likely end up being alcohol or find someone to write them a prescription for one of our lovely legal drugs. Luckily not all doctors are scumbags, but there are those out there that will get you want you want. This war on drugs is doing wonders for the methamphetamine problem in the US. My recommendation is to completely legalize everything, and on the packaging include a picture of someone on the tail end of addiction to the particular substance so the consumer knows what they are getting into. Also include a handy pamphlet to properly explain the stages of addiction they can expect along with how good the substance will make them feel.

If we are going to live in a truly capitalistic society, might as well capitalize off of human misery along with everything else right? Quit pussyfooting around America, increase the boundaries of our liberty!
 
i think there are enough crackheads milling about, thanks.
 
This:

"Costa Rica’s Laura Chinchilla has said the consumption of drugs should be a matter of health, not law." (from the article posted in the first post.)

The criminalization of drugs is a serious problem and destroys communities and impinges on human rights. I say this not as someone who is in favour of drug-consumption, but from a perspective of social justice. It's not okay to lock someone up for possession when that incarceration ruins the rest of their lives, that of their children's, family's, community's, etc. There are grave class and racial disparities in incarceration rates as well. Assuming that issues of social injustice amongst particular communities lead to increased likelihood of drug use, the resulting destruction of lives that occurs due to criminalization seems like a circular effect that essentially plays a role in preventing peoples and communities from freeing themselves of the debilitating effects of poverty, violence, drug-involvement, etc. Then there is the issue of arresting the casual user. F*cked up.

And yeah, it really does bother me that politicians and law-makers are more concerned with the legalities of drug consumption as opposed to their health effects.
 
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The Libertarian in me strongly agrees that drugs should be legalized.

But, there is such a huge bureaucracy that has built up after 40+ years of the "War on Drugs" that those working in that field will fight tooth and nail to protect their jobs.
Plus, the politicians sell out, lay down, and roll over for campaign contributions that come from law enforcement and other organizations with a vested interest in keeping drugs illegal.
Like Obama has done.
If I expected anyone to at least bring forward the discussion of legalization, (Marijuana in the very least) I thought he would be the one.
 
The fact that people break the current laws and get themselves into serious trouble is not an indicator that the laws should be dropped. Rather, I think a mandatory death penalty for those guilty of trafficking drugs - with a very zealous and well funded enforcement would be a better solution.
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I feel like this would just raise the stakes. As long as there is a demand for drugs, you will have people trafficking and selling them. It doesn't matter how severe the penalties will become. Cartels are already crazy, ruthless motherfuckers.

Decriminalize drugs and you take the wind out of their sails. The Mexican Cartels don't want America or anyone else to decriminalize drugs because that would be a major hit to their profits, and then they wouldn't be able to afford their gold plated AK-47's or their giant mansions and they probably wouldn't be the folk heroes they are to their neighbors, imo.

If you make drugs a legitimate business the stakes of being involved in drugs lowers. Maybe then we can focus on helping people with actual drug problems, rather than just tossing them in jail where they're just going to get worse.



i think there are enough crackheads milling about, thanks.
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This is a fairly common argument that I don't think holds much weight. Who's to say that just because drugs are legal that more people will get into harmful habits? Alcohol prohibition didn't limit the amount of drinkers in the United States (in fact, drinking only increased during that time).

And as a final statement, I would like to point out that cigarettes and alcohol are both far more addictive, and just as/if not less harmful to your health than a good deal of drugs that are illegal.

If we are going to live in a truly capitalistic society, might as well capitalize off of human misery along with everything else right? Quit pussyfooting around America, increase the boundaries of our liberty!
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But not all drugs make you miserable, imho. There are plenty of healthy, well-adjusted, casual weed smokers. And I'm going to throw it out there that acid, shrooms, and ecstasy aren't all that horrible either, or at least, no worse than cigarettes. I've done all of them multiple times and I can say with certainty that I am not addicted.

By all means, educate people about the dangers of addiction and whatnot, but don't use mindless scare tactics (as you seem to suggest). That's just condescending.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
The fact that people break the current laws and get themselves into serious trouble is not an indicator that the laws should be dropped. Rather, I think a mandatory death penalty for those guilty of trafficking drugs - with a very zealous and well funded enforcement would be a better solution.
Click to expand...

Let's just invalidate the American Revolution while we're at it.

Enforcement IS well funded because of the illegality of drugs. I wouldn't go so far as to legalize all drugs, but marijuana in particular is never likely to be legalized. Marijuana is cheap, abundant, and easy to grow, and without an upper limit on supply it becomes free and valueless.

Marijuana is sometimes considered to be America's current cash crop because of its illegality. Drug enforcement benefits by seizing the assets of those who distribute, making them the de facto beneficiary of drug sales while further incarcerating individuals into a modern day slave industry (prison-industrial complex) that is funded by the taxpayer. Maximizing profit and minimizing costs.

The likelihood that NORML or other organizations that are funded in order to legalize marijuana are just as unlikely to actually do such because both sides of the war on drugs profit. It is simply an economic industry for a capitalist society and will not change.
 
Did you see this in the news last week?

Drug warriors often contend that drug use would skyrocket if we were to legalize
or decriminalize drugs in the United States.
Fortunately, we have a real-world example of the actual effects of ending the violent,
expensive War on Drugs and replacing it with a system of treatment for problem users and addicts.


Ten years ago, Portugal decriminalized all drugs.

One decade after this unprecedented experiment, drug abuse is down by half:
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...lization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

There is countless research on the detriments of the War on Drugs - including the fact IT DOES NOT WORK!

So you have to ask your self: what's in it for the ones making sure the war continues....?
 
Flavus Aquila said:
The fact that people break the current laws and get themselves into serious trouble is not an indicator that the laws should be dropped. Rather, I think a mandatory death penalty for those guilty of trafficking drugs - with a very zealous and well funded enforcement would be a better solution.
Click to expand...
Well thank god you dont control anything or have any power.
 
They should at least legalize pot. It's like a cigarette that makes you laugh a lot and eat. Would work wonders for the fast-food/snack industries.
 
The idea of someone getting the death penalty for selling weed is beyond absurd. I've known some weed/mushroom/LSD dealers in the past and they were usually just kids paying their way through university (in style, mind you). There were students in my high school who were dealing too... saving up for uni, mostly because it beats working at MacDonald's. In some cases, their parents knew all about it. None of them had ties to organized crime... they were mostly just connected to local grow ops (I'm from a small, sort of geographically isolated town), which were largely owned by ex-hippies who knew the dangers of hard drugs, and in one case a schoolteacher. None of these people were actively looking to hurt anyone or get anyone addicted or turn anyone into a prostitute, none of them owned or needed weapons, there was competition but absolutely NO violence... they just realized that there was a market... and it was big enough for everyone to profit.

Anyone who actually thinks that smoking weed is going to ruin someone's life is ignorant-- plain and simple. I was pretty into weed in university-- not every day, but definitely a few times a week... and when I stopped, I experienced zero withdrawal effects. It did not make me want to try crack, or any other hard drug. I tried LSD in high school, and it was obvious after the first time that this was not something that I would ever be able to do on a regular basis. I stopped permanently after my 4th time. The same goes for mushrooms. Even when they're high, most people know how they feel about things...

With a single one-time exception in 2008, it has now been over 9 or 10 years since I last smoked pot, and over 15 since I did any other kind of drug, except alcohol, caffeine and tobacco-- all of which I hardly even consume anymore. People who use these drugs are more than aware of their effects and there comes a point where they sort of lose their charms except maybe as a very occasional thing. Most people who take them know that there is a time and place for it, and they quickly grow aware of how much they can handle and what kinds of situations they shouldn't take them in. They also know when they'd be better off not taking them. I don't know of too many people who haven't gone through this.

I agree with [MENTION=5601]vandyke[/MENTION] and his Lennon quote... addiction isn't about drugs, it's about you. The real problem is that society rejects, dehumanizes and ostracizes these people instead of reaching out to help them... making them easy prey for actual criminals. Addiction is a psychological problem, not a physical one... anyone can go through a few days of agony in order to flush out their system, but changing their daily routines is considerably more difficult, as is taming the impulsive thought patterns that compel them to partake. The majority are curious, but also have sound enough judgment that they'll never become addicted... even to the really addictive drugs.

On top of this, something like caffeine, which is perceived as benign, is far more addictive than any hallucinogenic-- mostly because the effects are mild enough not to interfere with your day. It's extremely difficult to function normally on heroin or LSD, but caffeine actually improves your performance for the first few weeks, at which point, you need it just to feel normal, and will experience withdrawal if you stop using it... of course, coffee is so integral to everyone's morning routine that nobody even wonders if they might be an addict, but as someone who gave up coffee a long time ago-- I can tell you that if you drink coffee throughout the day, then you are definitely addicted, and your brain chemistry is changed to make you more dependent.

So yeah, legalizing and controlling everything will result in a more peaceful society-- that's an objective fact.
 
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MindYourHead said:
... campaign contributions that come from law enforcement .
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It seems bizarre that law enforcement would want more things illegal. I would think that the less illegal things there are, the easier their job would be. Also I find fault with a government agency contributing to someones political campaign.
 
UBERROGO said:
It seems bizarre that law enforcement would want more things illegal. I would think that the less illegal things there are, the easier their job would be. Also I find fault with a government agency contributing to someones political campaign.
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I think that his point is that if things are less illegal, they'll be useless and probably lose their jobs... or at least, their departments will receive less money.
 
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