Islam is a Religion of Peace

[Kmal]

The issue is how are the followers instructed to treat other people? I have seen verses in the koran where it says to help the outsiders, which is why I'm perplexed that no one is posting them.

You've already seen contradicting verses, but only decide to show the ones that prove your point? Tell me the end game here. Do the contradictions equal out, or was the verse saying to help outsiders only to lower their guards so the muslims can easily triumph over the nonbelievers?

What I'm asking is- why does it matter if islam is not a peaceful religion? You've shown that there can be violence in islam, and thus settled the score with those people who pick out verses to show violence in the old testament. I dont get the point youre trying to make, if there even is one.

 

[Saru Inc]

You've already seen contradicting verses, but only decide to show the ones that prove your point? Tell me the end game here. Do the contradictions equal out, or was the verse saying to help outsiders only to lower their guards so the muslims can easily triumph over the nonbelievers?

What I'm asking is- why does it matter if islam is not a peaceful religion? You've shown that there can be violence in islam, and thus settled the score with those people who pick out verses to show violence in the old testament. I dont get the point youre trying to make, if there even is one.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Kmal]

Sounds good to me.

What is the point of this thread? Tell me without an insult, condescending tone, or sarcasm.

 

[the]

What I'm asking is- why does it matter if ...

Whoa, that's dangerously close to S territory.

 

[Sai]

organized religon suxs, abrahamic religions sux most

 

[Matt3737]

There is no unbiased definition for 'peace' nor an agreeable methodology for measuring it. I might as well try to argue that Spiderman is a more peaceful superhero than Batman because Batman is sorta dark and imposing. You clearly dismiss any attempts to contextualize Islamic culture and history, yet do so when attempts at historical comparisons to Christianity are proposed because those incidents are taken out of context.

You've set yourself up to be biased and there is no argument to be had.

 

[ENT8]

Muslim and their culture are one and the same. Their "religion" is peaceful, but their culture is not. I understand children will be children and mob mentality will follow one dominant leader in the group. I was referring to general violence in society associated with arab culture ... not the video itself.

Ok... i'm more inclined to stay mute on this point than the origional. ideals and ideologies are not inherently violent (unless they are built exclusively in support of violence of course, like the modern 20th century satanic faith for example)... but as a culture, it is one that is significantly more tolerant of violence than it's western cultural counterparts. But then thats really an entirely different thread.

 

[Lerxst]

"He who lives in a glass house..." Any Muslim or Christian on here presenting arguments for/against Islam or Christianity has no leg to stand on, so to speak. This thread will never be resolved as every argument can be reflected back on the other religion.

 

[just me]

"He who lives in a glass house..." Any Muslim or Christian on here presenting arguments for/against Islam or Christianity has no leg to stand on, so to speak. This thread will never be resolved as every argument can be reflected back on the other religion.

"I'm Still Standing"
"A just man falleth seven times; yet, standeth up again."

 

[muir]

This response is not really to Muir, but to the entire topic.
No I understand that perspective/view, what I meant was this topic is solely about Islam, what you're saying about about violence simply being human is applicable to this topic, but what I'm looking for is verses from the Koran or widely accepted Islamic scholars that say Islam is a religion of peace. Why do I ask for that? Because I see day in and day out Bible verses displaying the "bile" that Christianity is, but out of the Koran, nothing? I posted many many verses from the Koran about killing infidels, and offered for anyone to disprove it, if they can disprove it again, using The Koran or teachings from long known and accepted Islamic scholars then I will back down. But no one will, they just try to make me feel bad by saying "so you're saying millions of people are terrorists???" I'm not, the Koran is. As Kmal said, why be religious and not follow the religion? Just as the Bible is the Word of Jesus, so is the Koran the word of Allah.

The bible is not the word of Jesus, it was compiled by lots of different writers, edited by even more and translated many times through different languages to English

So are you saying that the problem you perceive is more about a bias in the media than about religion?

Whenever I ask to challenge people on this forum what happens? I am called a troll, a hater, a spammer -- these are words in order to make those against me feel rage and disregard my views, yet no one ever actually offers information against me. That's the whole thing, it's all a learning process, if I think someone is wrong I will point it out, but then they can always prove me wrong, and then I will have learned. Like when I pointed out the blatant racism in Sweden many times, I'm just ignored, when I point out the illegal aliens are criminals because they are breaking immigration laws I am ignored, when I point out this is no longer a free country if I *have* to do something or else be jailed, I am ignored. The problem is much bigger than this thread, people on this forum have an issue with pragmatism and facing the truth if it hurts. Perhaps it is my enneagram of 3 that makes me like this, but truth, even if it can only be obtained through pain, is so much more sweet than a thousand pillows of complacent ignorance. I don't wish any ill will towards anyone on this forum, while yes there are quite a few people I fundamentally disagree with, and this can blossom into personal battles, it is their beliefs I have an issue with, not them. And to those who say "admit it, you can't stand people who believe differently!" I can only answer with this: is that not more true for you, since you wish to paint me in such a light, ignore my words, and run me out of town?

I've never called you any names or tried to 'run you out of town'. In the 3 years i've been here i've never negatively repped anyone or used the report button

I recognise everyone's right to be here and my view is that this forum is a melting pot of views in which sometimes a certain alchemy happens....a change to peoples perceptions....and to me that is magick

I'm not talking about the levitating or pulling a rabbit out of my ass sort of magick i'm talking about psychology. Religion is just the surface gloss of magick.

If you look at magick and interprete it literally then you get religion. For example magick uses rituals which are designed to impact on the unconscious and religion uses rituals as well but they become empty, hollow habits because people have forgotten what the purpose of them are

Its like the preisthood have kept the deeper understanding of magick and given the public a watered down nonsensical version

I think that religion is really about inner psychic proccesses rather than actual events

 

[muir]

Thanks.
And I agree with the bolded.
Religion can be used to justify violence and discrimination and oppression..people will interpret it any way that suits them personally.. whether it is to feel loved or to feel justified in their actions or both..
Religious extremism is the problem--not necessarily Islam--but extremism in any belief.
The more fundamental the view of religion, the more delusionally extreme and violent and oppressive.

I don't think it takes trying to unite with the spiritual to overcome violence and aggression.. Because I I'm not convinced there even is a spiritual, and it seems that religion is just a belief system used to explain the unexplainable.
The problem starts when you stop questioning about the unexplainable or at least being open to other views. It breeds an 'us vs them' mentality and breeds hostility.


As for the USA... yeah, we're fucked up over here...

I think that religion is just a surface gloss behind which is something far more interesting. Lets call it the 'spiritual'

You say that it is not necessary to unite with 'spirit' so it looks like that kind of language is not really resonating with you

Why not change the language involved? You could say that you are trying to engage with your higher mind or work through your hang ups or iron out any personality flaws or any other kind of language like that because thats what all this stuff is about really....its all self psychology

I think a literal view of religion where people walk on water or turn water into wine is nonsensical when interpreted literally but when viewed as a piece of art then other dimensions can be discearned

I think that spirituality is about looking within yourself and coming to terms with whats there. i think that this form of self psychology (magick) is ancient and that people have been engaging in it since before 'ancient' egypt. i think that the elites have kept the really potent stuff to themselves and have pushed a literal version of it on the populace to dissempower them

This doesn't need any hocus pocus to have validity

I think that religion uses a sort of poetic, symbolic way of looking at things to impact on us a certain way

As an exercise, to illustrate my point....if you want to....please read the following poem by Coleridge and ask yourself what its about as you read it


In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure-dome decree: Where Alph, the sacred river, ran Through caverns measureless to man Down to a sunless sea. So twice five miles of fertile ground With walls and towers were girdled round: And here were gardens bright with sinuous rills Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree; And here were forests ancient as the hills, Enfolding sunny spots of greenery. But oh! that deep romantic chasm which slanted Down the green hill athwart a cedarn cover! A savage place! as holy and enchanted As e'er beneath a waning moon was haunted By woman wailing for her demon-lover! And from this chasm, with ceaseless turmoil seething, As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing, A mighty fountain momently was forced; Amid whose swift half-intermitted burst Huge fragments vaulted like rebounding hail, Or chaffy grain beneath the thresher's flail: And 'mid these dancing rocks at once and ever It flung up momently the sacred river. Five miles meandering with a mazy motion Through wood and dale the sacred river ran, Then reached the caverns measureless to man, And sank in tumult to a lifeless ocean: And 'mid this tumult Kubla heard from far Ancestral voices prophesying war!


Is it about a mongol emporer building a pleasure palace?

There's many different ways to interprete it isn't there? For example you could see it as actually about sex (this is just one interpretation)

Read it again with this new interpretation in mind

The point i'm making is that there are different dimensions to these things and it does'nt have to be about hocus pocus to have some value to us. it's to help us to new perspectives and new understandings

Did a guy actually come back to life after being crucified or is it just another story like many resurrection gods before jesus such as Osiris, dionysis, Tammuz which are describing a process of rebirth and renewal that can happen to a person when they look within themselves for answers; imo that's the real magick of religion...its transformative power