Is Feminism Outdated?

[muir]

@muir Who birthed, fed and raised the men you claim built the roof over my head, grew the food in my fridge (ignoring the fact that it is mostly women who have grown the food and fetched the water)

Men have been the farmers for the last 10,000 years since agriculture began

But you have just proven my point: MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT

This is why feminism is outdated because the marxist feminist idea that all differences are entirely cultural and exist only in your head is patently false...men and women are biologically different

and designed and built the computer? Who traditionally and still predominately will take care of these men if they become invalid or when they become old and sick? What would you prefer to do? Build something or change the dirty diaper of an elderly person?

I have built things AND i have changed the diapers of elderly people

Do you know who got called when things got out of hand in the wards? Me and the other men

Which is more worthy or valuable work? I would propose that both are valuable and important work and that one shouldn't be valued over the other. The work that men have traditionally done have always and still is more glorified and deemed as 'real' work than the work that women have traditionally done.

Thats nonsense

It is women who are trying to put men down and i am saying that don't forget who it is who provides the essentials of life

No food and no shelter and there will be no birth

That is wrong. I can tell you that I have spent years care-giving in an unpaid capacity and that is not recognized in society. My ex who has worked very hard and earned lots of money for it is recognized with value and respect because he has a distinguished career and expertise which is recognized. Does that mean that all the hard work and dedication that I have done over the years was less meaningful or that I have less expertise because I wasn't getting paid for it? My ex worked long hours but mine were even longer and I had much less leisure time than he did but my hard work goes unrecognised because it wasn't paid and because it is still predominantly 'women's work'.

It's not just 'womens work' that isn't paid well....there are millions of men across the world doing all sorts of essential work and getting paid jack shit for it

That is not a man v's women issue...that is an issue about how our society allocates resources so leave gender out of it

Ask yourself what are women doing now that they are going into the workplace? They are being every bit as aggressive and corporate as men...they're apeing men, so don't try and say men are to blame for how things are...women are complicit in the system too

I think we should celebrate the differences while allowing for variations on those differences without fear of reprisals. Equality is not and has never been claimed to be about everybody being exactly the same but simply having the same rights:

Wrong that is not what feminism is about

Feminism is about saying that men and women are the same. They want us to believe that all differences are cultural because it then gives them the philosophical justification for the social engineering that they are doing

Your glorification of heterosexual men as somehow being superior to the rest of us while at the same proclaiming that they are the 'real' victims of the system is problematic.

Pointing out what they are worth is not 'glorifying' them its reminding you to remember that they have worth

I did not say they are the 'real' victims of the system i pointed out to you that women are not the sole victims and that men have been suffering horribly for thousands of years...all i'm asking is that you recognise it and stop treating them like the enemy

I think you are falling into the same trap that you constantly warn us about. The idea that paid 'men's work' is of more value than the work done by the caregivers in society seems to me to be contrary to some of the ideas you espouse.

Most women don;t work in 'care giving' don't kid yourself

We live in a 'service' economy...do you know what that means? It means we don't produce anything anymore we just create artifical wealth by printing money and borrowing money until one day it all blows up in our faces

Yes i do make a distinction between manufacturing jobs and service jobs

I have done care work and i see that as vital work and many men are involved in that

My stance has been and will always be that every human being has a right to be themselves and be protected from discrimination or mistreatment. Fighting for certain segments of society are just tools to help us reach that goal. I don't care which segment you chose to fight for it should not include anything that glorifies one group over another or is antagonistic towards the idea that other groups have the right to fight for what they need for themselves.

feminism is demonising men

It portrays them as the sole oppressors of women and says they are to blame for everything whilst portraying women as the sole victims....that's horseshit

I may call myself a feminist but that is just because females are the group of people that I predominantly choose to fight for but it is all wrapped up in the fight for everybody to have the same rights and any other group, including men, who realize that they need to put effort and energy into fighting for their right to be treated fairly and equally will have my support to do so, as long as it does not include demeaning another group. I certainly extend that to any feminist group that includes misandry, which in my opinion has no place in feminism and is actually anti-feminist.

Thats why you make such a good dupe

 

[ODyssey]

Just because men and women are different doesn't mean they don't deserve equal rights.
I don't know much about feminism but I think it's just as unrealistic as demolishing racism.
However, awareness could go a long way..
and it's ' on the ground of equality on the sexes', It's not so much taking the man's power of being the dominant one, but rather the freedom of both sexes to be either.

 

[La Sagna]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] Banging my head against a wall again! I really need to learn! Shame on me for taking on somebody who is incredibly biased and can't have an intelligent conversation on the matter.

Well, maybe it's not a waste since you keep proving my point over and over again. You are the dupe sir, not I. My position is nuanced and truly egalitarian and yours isn't.

 

[muir]

@muir Banging my head against a wall again! I really need to learn! Shame on me for taking on somebody who is incredibly biased and can't have an intelligent conversation on the matter.

Well, maybe it's not a waste since you keep proving my point over and over again. You are the dupe sir, not I. My position is nuanced and truly egalitarian and yours isn't.

Yeah youre doing a great job building bridges there!

oh the irony!

you can but laugh lol

 

[La Sagna]

Yeah youre doing a great job building bridges there!

oh the irony!

you can but laugh lol

I love to build bridges but you can't build one with somebody who is using a sledgehammer to destroy it every time you try to build it.

 

[ODyssey]

It portrays them as the sole oppressors of women...

Feminism is to rid bias that women are weak or can't do what men can~ prejudice that affect women in job industries, social and even economic fields. Yes, men are said to be dominant― but this is natural and many men are, definitely nothing wrong with that. It's not that the man is demeaning or an oppressor, but rather, the horrific things people say about a woman who is dominant.

 

[muir]

Just because men and women are different doesn't mean they don't deserve equal rights.
I don't know much about feminism but I think it's just as unrealistic as demolishing racism.
However, awareness could go a long way..
and it's ' on the ground of equality on the sexes', It's not so much taking the man's power of being the dominant one, but rather the freedom of both sexes to be either.

I don't think anyone here has said men and women shouldn't have equal rights

I believe in equal rights but i am saying that women need to become aware that there is another game being played here...it's all traceable...you can do the background reading on it if you want and you can see what i see but its a big subject and difficult to put down in a post

But i believe with 100% conviction that if i could create a telepathic link with you and download what i know into your brain you would see what i'm saying in a totally different light. The only gap between me and lasagna is an awareness gap...although she might feel insulted to hear me say that

My issue is that there is a school of thought called 'marxism' and some powerful people have latched onto the ideas in marxism and have turned them to their own ends

Before world war 1 many upper class folk and intellectuals in britain and the US including the likes of HG Wells, george bernhard shaw and aldous huxley were discussing various 'socialist' ideas....but by 'socialism' they definately did not mean that the workers should own and control the means of production. What they meant is that the economy should be controlled by a central authority

This of course meant the death of 'equality' because it meant that a privileged few would control the lives of everyone else utterly

The british author George Orwell wrote books warning people about these ideas that were being thrown around amongst the ruling class in the UK. He talked about a 'big brother' government that ruled through surveillance and police force. He spoke about a system where all were equal but some were more equal than others (ie they were elevated above the workers)

Powerful people dreamed of creating a country where they controlled the workers and the economy with a god like power

This sort of centralised government was seen in the USSR and our own western governments are becoming increasingly centrally controlled

These people have a vision to change our society but they know that people would resist it if they told them they were going to do it so they have to do it by stealth

They do it by socially engineering society

These people operate out of such groups as the Fabian Society, the Tavistock Institute and the Frankfurt School to name a few but because they have powerful supporters they get to espouse their ideas in universities across the western world eg the London School of Economics

These people created the 'New Left' movement which influences many student groups

The new left advocates many great causes like civil rights, gay rights, equal rights for women and so on but their end vision is not for all these groups to exist in a world where they can enjoy their freedom...their vision is for these groups to be equal as slaves controlled and dominated by a totalitarian police state, centrally controlled, planned economy

This is why these people end up being duped...because they get suckered into these causes which seem great on the surface but in actuality are being steered by the marxists in ways which are destructive to the fabric of our current society because their aim is to undermine our society until it falls apart allowing them to then put in place the system they want

This is why for example the frankfurt school created 'critical theory'. critical theory is about criticisng capitalist society endlessly and relentlessly in order to pick it apart and undermine it. They offer no solutions or viable alternatives they simply seek to destroy our current society

So believe me when i say i believe in equal rights for all those groups but i'm just warning some of those people standing under certain banners that the groups they represent are funded by the devil...so to speak

For example many feminists groups were funded by the CIA and by multi billionaire George Soros because those groups are all working towards undermining our current society in order to create a new one and what i'm trying to tell people here is that the society they want is not a good one for any of us....it will be the death of democracy, the death of freedom, the death of privacy, the death of human creative expression, the death of free speech etc

if you look objectively at the world around us you will already be able to see their vision taking shape...this is because they have been doing this for some time now

the genuine movement to gain equal rights for women was hijaked by marxist feminism lead by CIA agents like gloria steinem

These people are not interested in gaining equality for women they are only wanting to cause rifts and tears in the fabric of our society because they want to destroy it

Now i also want change....but i don't want their change and believe me if people thought hitler was bad they should realise that this monster i'm talking about birthed hitler and then ate him

 

[ODyssey]

in infj, telepathy works.
like masonry.. I've researched about them endlessly, it's probably not good for me, but they've gone all out, there's probably a reason for it. Maybe because we can't do anything about it anymore. And people think world domination is a joke.


that's cray

 

[muir]

in infj, telepathy works.
like masonry.. I've researched about them endlessly, it's probably not good for me, but they've gone all out, there's probably a reason for it. Maybe because we can't do anything about it anymore. And people think world domination is a joke.


that's cray

The rockefellers gave the land for the UN headquarters in New York

David Rockefeller was the chairman of the CFR and he set up the trilateral commission to try and build bridges with asia

He wrote his thesis at university on fabian socialism

Why does a multi billionaire banking and oil tycoon want to write a thesis on socialism unless of course by socialism he means a system that he and people like him can control

He and his associates like George Soros can be financially linked to everything from ebola to 'colour' revolutions in europe to feminism

These guys are big time messing with our world

Some people say: ''but feminism is about equality'' but as with all things you can judge a tree by its fruit

How are we doing as a society these days? We have families falling apart all over the place, we have a 'battle of the sexes', we have riots, protests, racial tensions, we have men withdrawing into computer games and porn, we have women choosing careers over relationships and family, we have economic instability, wars...its all coming apart at the seems and that's exactly what these people want

Its like the whole world has gone mad!!!! But that is because there are people deliberately sabotaging it

It's like that guy warren farrel whose talk i posted earlier in the thread says...he started of as a feminist...he was one of the leading feminists back in the day until he noticed something happening to young men and then he realised that it was actually young men who were in crisis

Also there's no point in seeing things in isolation...you can't look at feminism and say its responsible for all this..its more complex than that

The marxists don't just use social movements they also control the corporate media and the film industry and the music industry...they basically bought up any company that was involved in giving information to the public so that they could control the information that flowed to the public and by doing so they control how the public think and feel about things

Thi is why i posted that stuff about the pop stars above....they know that young kids watch that stuff so they know they can use it to get into the heads of the next generation and socially engineer them

Its really manipulative and really sinister and most people are still not aware of it...they think the world is just a crazy place....but there is method to the madness

 

[ODyssey]

...and even I forget.
It's sick that society makes people think that love and being kind is lame.. while cussing and wishing others to go to hell is a norm.

 

[muir]

...and even I forget.
It's sick that society makes people think that love and being kind is lame.. while cussing and wishing others to go to hell is a norm.

The reason TV programmes are called 'programmes' is because they are programming peoples minds

Soap Operas for example shape how society behave

We have a soap here in the UK called 'eastenders' and it just involves people in the same neighbourhood all treating each other like shit....thats basically it...just different permutations of treating each other like shit

 

[Lark]

I agree with you on this but at the same time I don't dismiss a good message or an important one because it is also intertwined with other messages or causes. I believe that is the way to be non-partisan, by not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. At times even in a message that I mostly disagree with there may be a gemstone that is worth considering and I am not above picking those out as good ideas or ones worth exploring.

You speak with great wisdom here, I hope you are in my friends list.

 

[invisible]

dont be afraid of having an opinion that is fragmentary or does not cohere with others.
you are allowed to be different.
it is OK to be "divisive".
you can disagree with others if you think that their beliefs should not apply to everyone.
you dont have to go along with what everyone else wants or believes.
you can champion your own cause.
you can champion any cause you want. any cause you decide is right.
dont listen to people who tell you that you are just making things difficult for others.
you can do your own thing.
you can be your own champion. you can be the champion of other, disenfranchised groups.
dont bother with those small minded, chavinist, mule headed, arrogant, fascist pigs,
who want to tell you that you have to go along with what they believe,
or else you are some kind of infected or contaminated bad person.
they arent worth it.

 

[Lark]

dont be afraid of having an opinion that is fragmentary or does not cohere with others.
you are allowed to be different.
it is OK to be "divisive".
you can disagree with others if you think that their beliefs should not apply to everyone.
you dont have to go along with what everyone else wants or believes.
you can champion your own cause.
you can champion any cause you want. any cause you decide is right.
dont listen to people who tell you that you are just making things difficult for others.
you can do your own thing.
you can be your own champion. you can be the champion of other, disenfranchised groups.
dont bother with those small minded, chavinist, mule headed, arrogant, fascist pigs,
who want to tell you that you have to go along with what they believe,
or else you are some kind of infected or contaminated bad person.
they arent worth it.

What if they are the bastions of liberalism?

 

[muir]

What if they are the bastions of liberalism?

Honestly man the whole left v's right paradigm is a total fraud...it's all theatre

You know what the ring wing tories (republicans) do when they get into power? They do exactly what the global investors want them to do

Do you know what the left wing labour party (democrats) do when they get into power? They do exactly what the global investors want them to do

They are two faces of the same monster

Its all nonsense designed to divide the people

Think about it....we switch back and forth between each party and each time the global investors get richer and the people get poorer

Forget all the razzmatazz and theatre and judge a tree by its fruit

Look at the reality of whats happening on the ground

Its the same with feminism....ask yourself if people are feeling free today as they scrabble around to make ends meet...its a total con game, all of it

 

[muir]

dont be afraid of having an opinion that is fragmentary or does not cohere with others.
you are allowed to be different.
it is OK to be "divisive".
you can disagree with others if you think that their beliefs should not apply to everyone.
you dont have to go along with what everyone else wants or believes.
you can champion your own cause.
you can champion any cause you want. any cause you decide is right.
dont listen to people who tell you that you are just making things difficult for others.
you can do your own thing.
you can be your own champion. you can be the champion of other, disenfranchised groups.
dont bother with those small minded, chavinist, mule headed, arrogant, fascist pigs,
who want to tell you that you have to go along with what they believe,
or else you are some kind of infected or contaminated bad person.
they arent worth it.

Fascism is the merging of corporate and state power which is exactly what the people who are funding feminism want

Tell me...as a gay man do you care about the wellbeing and health of straight relationships between men and women?

 

[Lark]

Honestly man the whole left v's right paradigm is a total fraud...it's all theatre

You know what the ring wing tories (republicans) do when they get into power? They do exactly what the global investors want them to do

Do you know what the left wing labour party (democrats) do when they get into power? They do exactly what the global investors want them to do

They are two faces of the same monster

Its all nonsense designed to divide the people

Think about it....we switch back and forth between each party and each time the global investors get richer and the people get poorer

Forget all the razzmatazz and theatre and judge a tree by its fruit

Look at the reality of whats happening on the ground

Its the same with feminism....ask yourself if people are feeling free today as they scrabble around to make ends meet...its a total con game, all of it

Ha!

Yeah, I know you dont appreciate the importance and the power of ideas Muir, you've made it real plain already.

 

[muir]

Ha!

Yeah, I know you dont appreciate the importance and the power of ideas Muir, you've made it real plain already.

'Ideas' are the philosophical justifications that big money uses to justify what it's going to do anyway...you know lhow a bully says to their intended victim: ''what are you looking at?'' before pushing them (implying that they are the aggreived party and that you the victim deserve everything you are going to get)

They are window dressing concealing what the real motives of the controllers is: CONTROL

They do this with science as well.....they cherry pick their science and will pay scientists to do narrow research that supports the case for what they want to do anyway (CONTROL everyone and everything)

They do this in war as well.....they make up BS excuses for doing what they're going to do anyway eg we want to invade iraq so we will claim they have weapons of mass destrcution when we know they haven't

It's all bullshit

When you watch a stage magician..don't look where he wants you to look because then you will fall for the sleight of hand

It's the same with these people...they are ammoral....'ideas' are for manufacturing the consent of the public behind what the powerful want to do...they'll sell you any idea they think will sway you the way they want you to be swayed

 

[muir]

@Lark

You know how miliband gave a speech recently and didn't mention the economy or immigration? This is because those areas are not upto him. Those areas are controlled by the globalists

Politicians are middle management...they manage petty affairs whislt the big investors get together at DAVOS and BILDERBERG and other places to make the big decisions

Listen to this economist as he explains @6 mins that Obamas policies are about fiddling with social issues but not the big economic issues:

[video=youtube;flvf09hkI2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flvf09hkI2M[/video]

 

[Gaze]

If feminism is to be successful in its goals for true gender equality, it must acknowledge the many misuses of the term along with some very sexist messages (against both men and women) that are presented in the name of "feminism" which provoke negative feelings, divisions, and disunity, among the sexes in arguments, writings, publications, programs, movements or speeches claiming to achieve 'feminist' goals of real equality.