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Intelligence

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by perpetual_liar, Apr 8, 2010.

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  1. perpetual_liar

    perpetual_liar Community Member

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    The astonishing array of views on intelligence has always fascinated me.

    Most seem to hold onto the belief that intelligence is simply a matter of being able to answer maths equasions. That the extension class students are smart, and the people with learning disabilities are stupid. The blonde bimbos are thick and the blokes that understand science are genius.



    I, however, believe like some do, that intelligence comes in many forms.
    The popular people aren't too academic, may not be 'smart' as is commonly excepted, but they're pretty intelligent when it comes to socialising, whereas the stereotypical nerds are brilliant academically, but pathetic socially.

    Of course, academic and social aren't the only forms of intelligence, and they themselves are split into intelligence of language, of math, of science, of networking, conversation, thousands of them.

    Anyway, the point of this thread is to get other people's views on intelligence.
    So, what is intelligence?
     
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  2. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Perpetual lie :p~
     
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  3. Gaze

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    So, are you saying "intelligence" as a intellectual or theoretical concept does not exist? Are you saying, it is fluid? Are you saying, that true indepedence of thought is separate from our institutional definition of "intelligence"?

    Are you trying to say, I'm not intelligent because intelligence does not exist?
     
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  4. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    what is intelligence? i dunno! i guess the ability to get things done, to solve problems as needed and with minimal effort. there's a quote that says brilliance is the art of planning ahead, i'd say a similar thing is true of intelligence - intelligent people think ahead. but really it's hard to qualify such a thing especially in terms of academics. school achievements only sometimes correlate with real world achievements - and the issue is complicated furthermore by the fact that different people want different things, so what is an intelligent decision to one person will be stupid to another since each of us looks at choice through the lens of our own personal experiences & desires.

    also (and this isn't relevant but I want to mention it anyway) intelligence intimidates me. i feel like an idiot around super smart people, and find it hard to communicate as an equal.
     
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  5. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    You really still care about the whole "better,stronger,faster" stuff, dontya? :) I think it covers people's heads:
    [youtube]lLYD_-A_X5E[/youtube] :p , or as the love police was saying: "work, work, cause when you die, you're gonna regret you haven't worked more" xD
     
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    #5 enfp can be shy, Apr 8, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
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  6. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    See: "Frames of mind: the theory of multiple intelligences," by Howard Gardner
     
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  7. NeverAmI

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    In my view, we take measurements of all kinds of things, we apply symbology, and we store memories of symbols and measurements. Intellect is what binds those together.

    To me, intellectual ability involves an individual's capacity to process multiple variables in their mind at once. Our intellect is a scenario processor, it takes input from senses, feelings, previous inferences, memories, symbology and it analyses those. The more the mind can handle at once, the more potential to produce robust scenarios and make new inferences.

    When Steven Hawking became paralyzed, he ended up having to perform all his theoretical thinking within his own head. No paper, no speech, just thought. I am sure his intellectual abilities reached their highest potentials through that exercise, but he seems to have a great intellect. Not because he knows math, or any one thing, but because he can functionally process a wide variety of input at once.
     
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  8. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
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    Grabbed it, thanks!
     
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  9. Korg

    Korg $vicide

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    Usually the people who are obsessed with IQ and intelligence are that way because it's the one area where they can objectively quantify their superiority over others. This is especially true for those who have been shunned. I'm not saying this is you, OP. Just an observation.

    Anyway, I always thought of intelligence as potential mental aptitude. Some are intelligent in math, some are intelligent in interpersonal relationships (EQ), some are intelligent in art, etc. I don't think it's accurately measured by most IQ tests as they seem to demonstrate accrued knowledge and/or academic aptitude more than anything else.
     
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    #9 Korg, Apr 8, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
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  10. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    I....tried to categorizes 'knowledge' in terms of linguistics once, and to me....

    Being intelligent would be having a lot of understanding of them,
    Being smart would be knowing what to do with them,
    being wise would be knowing what to gain from them,
    and being clever would be knowing how to get them.

    Then again, as Korg had said, there are lots of categories and ways to express 'intelligence'. (and let's not talk about the topics..) And there's a other side of the spectrum; street smarts.

    Also, I remembered a book concerning psychological tests claimed the same thing Korg did. It's talking about what's wrong with IQ tests.

    So yeah, I think a lot of society and common thought had evolved beyond the idea of "IQs are the sole deciding factor of intelligence".
     
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  11. peter

    peter Newbie

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    Interesting article for its focus on the development of intellect and moral independence/culture-innovation:

    Both Vos Savant and Zietsman are Mensans.
    In describing the meaning of specific IQs, Zietsman gave Johannesburg Mensans the following analyses which, because of pressure of space, have been greatly shortened.

    So, just how bright are you? And what level of IQ are politicians, policemen, professors and teachers? IQ below 12 - functioning is absolutely minimal... incapable of self-maintenance in any way. Can't even be toilet-trained.

    Between 12 and 28: profound retardation. Once known as "idiots", this group are without understanding or ordinary mental capacity. Need constant care and supervision. An IQ of 20 is the beginning of a semblance of humanity - cats are at this level.

    28 to 44: severely retarded. Once called "imbeciles". Congenitally weak-minded, they cannot profit from academic training at all, cannot be employed in sheltered workshops and must be supervised domestically. Demonstrate little or no social and communication skills but they can be trained in basic health habits. Smart dogs are estimated to have IQs at this level.

    44 to 60: moderately retarded. Limited support is essential and with extended special education a maximum of Grade four could be attained by age 18. Their thinking does not involve much in the way of logic. Their ethical thinking has to involve conditioning, but there is the beginning of a quid pro quo sort of morality.

    Their social and communication skills are fair but there is little self-awareness. They can function vocationally in a sheltered workshop (and perhaps lawn-mowing, if you don't mind them losing fingers). Cannot live independently. Average adult chimpanzee has a general intelligence level corresponding to this category.

    60 to 76: (Mental age 12 for adults) Mildly retarded. Once called "morons" or "feeble-minded". With special education, a maximum of grade six is possible by age 18. Are inevitably functionally illiterate even if they have been taught to read for at least four years.

    Real (if superficial and concrete) logic appears in this category.
    Conventional morality also begins to appear - this group perceive as good whatever pleases significant others and the bad as anything that displeases them.

    At least some intermittent outside assistance is necessary. Their communication and social skills are reasonable. (By social/communication this does not refer to negotiation skills or wit, but basics such as washing hands, dressing, brushing teeth, using toilet paper, looking at the person addressing them and finding the local doctor.) They are socially and vocationally adequate (at menial labour) given special training and supervision. Many are able to lead a relatively independent life.
    At an IQ of 70 or below the law regards them as being too stupid to know the difference between right and wrong.

    76 to 92: Dull. Life is tough at this level. Learning is slow, simple and needs to be supervised closely to be effective. With application they may graduate from primary school but will flounder badly in high school.
    Those with IQs below 80 will probably never be functionally literate and the rest will not understand anything more complex than a popular magazine.

    Their reasoning is very superficial. Morality is of a primitive conventional sort - good and bad depends on how significant others view good and bad.

    The vast majority of serious social problems are associated with people in this category because there are so many of them and they are just smart enough to be let loose. People in this category commit about 75 percent of all petty and violent crimes. Anything other than unskilled labour is a trial, though simple semi-skilled work is possible.

    92 to 108: Mediocre - the average person. Learning varies from explicit coaching with hands-on experience to study guides and textbook work with some practical experience. They should be able to deal with a high school curriculum and graduate, but even with hard work won't do well enough to enter university. Their reading level is, at best, news stories (not editorials), popular magazines and novels.

    Morality is conventional - a matter of serving the social order and tradition or doing your duty as defined by some authority - church, teacher, parent or state.

    Able to function at the level of skilled blue-collar, clerical, sales or police work. This large group are the glue of society, but, given the wrong authority, they will do horrible things in the name of morality.

    108 to 124: Bright. They can learn via the typical university format of lectures and textbooks. They would struggle at, but sometimes graduate from, university. Their best reading level is editorials, magazines such as Time and The Economist, and classical novels. Abstract, "what-if" hypothetical thinking begins in this group but is still superficial.
    Principled morality also begins in this group, that is, they can see there are non-arbitrary principles or laws that should govern ethical behaviour and thought. They can also see that these laws are social constructs and have not come down from heaven or any other ultimate authority. Their best work level is that of most teachers, low- to middle-level management and military officers, sub-standard to fair professionals and some elected national or provincial politicians.
    This group makes up the moral, intellectual and practical leadership assistants of society.

    124 to 140: Superior. This category and all those above them don't require assistance to learn. They can find the information and master the methods themselves. Capable of postgraduate work, including PhDs, but may struggle with a few subjects such as postgraduate mathematics, physics and philosophy. Reading philosophy and legal tracts with comprehension is possible.
    Morality is decidedly a matter of principles for this group but nevertheless they tend to accept established systems - rarely is the principled system a self-chosen one.
    This group forms the bulk of the better doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants and other professionals, United States presidents, CEOs of large companies and academics.
    Tend to be the keepers, and transmitters of knowledge and the higher points of any culture, but can't create it themselves.

    140 to 156. Brilliant. Highly regarded original academic work rarely occurs with lower IQs. Some in this group exceed the average university student in academic competence while still in primary school. They garner most academic honours such as Rhodes scholarships and maths Olympiads. They can read anything and probably read philosophy for pleasure.
    Most professional mathematicians, physicists, philosophers and judges or very senior counsel can be found in this group. Many Nobel laureates and some historical geniuses - like Sartre - are also to be found here. People in this category make up society's intellectual leaders. Most original ideas start with these people.
    However their contribution tends to be in bits and pieces rather than a whole new system or new way of seeing things. One in 1 000 people reach an IQ of 148.

    156 to 172. Genius. Most exceed the average postgraduate in academic competence - even professors - while still in primary school and probably knew more than their teachers from about grade four. They can and do read philosophy for pleasure well before puberty and can read at the university level before the average person can comprehend a primary reader (that is, "I see a cat").
    The smarter Nobel Prize winners and most historical geniuses (people such as Einstein, Hawkins, Byron, Milton, Kant, Newton, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand) are to be found in this category. They are the source of virtually all of humanity's advances.
    A common experience with people in this category or higher is that they are not wanted - the masses (including the professional classes) find them an affront of some sort. Fortunately, they are plentiful in absolute numbers - South Africa probably has about 1 500 - so many of them do rise above the envy and hostility.

    172 to 188: Freakish. While still of primary school age, only around one in 1 000 professors can look them in the eye intellectually. They tend to read competently before they are three
    years old.
    Keynes - who used to intimidate Russell - was probably in this category. Zietsman believes that FW Nietzsche, the German philosopher and poet, and Hugo de Groote, a jurist, were others. Michael Kerney, who holds the world record as the youngest university graduate ever at 10 years old, probably also has an adult IQ around 186 on this scale. Only one in a million people are this intelligent.
    They are seldom understood or appreciated. Most feel profoundly isolated from society - even when they are appreciated. A large proportion of this group opt out of society and never make revolutionary contributions in the standard academic fields or professions.
    It seems to be very difficult to motivate them to play the academic/scholarly/professional game because they regard even the most venerable of traditions and institutions as absurd or silly. Consider that even the mind of the average professor appears to them like the mind of the average bricklayer would appear to the professor.

    IQ over 188: In all of history only about a dozen people have been this smart. Zietsman says: "I know of only one case for sure. William James Sidis lectured Harvard mathematicians on four-dimensional mathematics at age 11 and was a professor of mathematics at Rice University at age 14.
    "He easily mastered many more languages than the then 'world record' of around 40. He would do the entire New York Times crossword in his head.
    "Because of his eccentricities, academics and the press mercilessly hounded him. At the age of 22 he published a book discussing black holes a full 15 years before Nobel laureate astrophysicist Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar thought of them.
    "He eventually refused to do anything academic or have anything to do with academic society. Who knows what these people think about the rest of humanity?"




    http://www.sundayindependent.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=&fArticleId=2836041
     
  12. Rakawi

    Rakawi Community Member

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  13. under skies

    under skies Community Member

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  14. Rakawi

    Rakawi Community Member

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    Intelligence: the measure of competence... and whomever is measuring, sets the standards.
     
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  15. TaylorS

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    I subscribe to the "Multiple Intelligences" model and think IQ is a joke for anything except identifying the clearly gifted and clearly mentally retarded.
     
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  16. TaylorS

    TaylorS Community Member

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    When I took an official IQ test when I was getting my Asperger's diagnosis My overall IQ was 135, but my verbal IQ came out at over 150.

    Based on the descriptions I come out at the "brilliant" level. People think I'm NUTS because I DO read philosophy for pleasure!
     
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  17. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I think intelligence is more of a monolithic/general/mathematical thing, but I also think that the article peter posted is highly speculative and unsubstantiated. We do have geniuses such as Leibniz occasionally, but I wouldn't put most of the people in history who made significant contributions down in that category. The system of IQ has a history as a tool of discrimination, and it has been used to deny some people of otherwise normal intelligence of their potential for a happy life. Putting any stock into it now is a mistake given it's historical misuse, and to me it seems more like a system of justification for limiting people than a system that has any valuable explanatory power or practical applications.
     
  18. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    It's so interesting that it says the most intelligent people decide to opt out of society or even academia and don't make "revolutionary contributions." Why do you suppose this is? Do they just feel overrun by us zombies? As if they don't stand a chance against us?

    How strange that they actually possess so much power-- and maybe find it worthless or futile..
     
  19. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    Ironically, I find the language used in those previous descriptions to be incredibly demeaning and pedantic. I'm assuming the person who wrote the descriptions has a superior IQ or higher, or else he simply has no tact. He could've used something less inflammatory. Most of the descriptions are ridiculous, because it relies on someone else's perception of what "smart" and "stupid" are.

    I hate that divisive crap.

    The real question is this: Why is it important to categorize people based on intelligence? What purpose does it serve? If you're smart, great - teach. If you're not as intelligent as you'd like to be, fine - learn. And if you can't teach, learn how to teach. If you can't learn, find a teacher who can teach you how.
     
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  20. rawr

    rawr ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    wow. these descriptions sound incredibly derisive. All they seem to do is stick a label that classifies in a rather unhealthy way. sure, labels and classifications can be very good and helpful, but it depends on how they are done and used. in this case they seem rather unhealthy.
    for those of you who are wondering, i have no idea what my IQ is.
     
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