Intellectual Bulllying | INFJ Forum

Intellectual Bulllying

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Satya, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Do you believe in intellectual bullying?

    Can a person really force anyone to believe something they don't want to believe without using physical force?

    Are some people easily intimidated by those who are verbally aggressive?

    How possible is it for people of superior education or intelligence to nonphysically denigrate and humiliate those of lesser education or intelligence?

    If you believe in intellectual bullies, then how do you imagine would be the most appropriate way of dealing with one?
     
  2. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    Psh, fat chance getting me to believe something I don't want to.

    Nevertheless, I think this exsists to a small degree. I have one of two friends who are mentally bullied by other friends, and let it happend without helping themselves. It takes a certain kind of person to be succpetuble to this. I think one of the biggest factors is for the person to not have very many strong opinions to begin with, and has low self-worth. I have no idea how one would deal with this though. I would think the person being bullied wouldn't actually see it being done to them. As such, it would take an outside source to "wake them up" and get them to start to defend themselves. However, I think that would be a very hard thing to do.
     
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  3. rainrise

    rainrise Community Member

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    i prefer intellectual self-defence over either emotional rigidity, mute withdrawal, or heated argument. i don't believe in forcing anyone to any perspective by means of knowing or thinking i know more than them (in the broadest sense), but i do believe it is important to reason with them and perhaps even learn from them if what they are arguing makes sense.
    also, different people do excel in different intelligence areas and have differing values. it would be easier to deal with someone by distinguishing values from facts. argued facts are less complex to reason with and accept whereas values are of a more subjective dimension and harder to sway through intellectual argument.
    i think it's also a good idea to discern why they are being verbally aggressive (e.g. the purpose of enlarging their own egos, asserting something that they truly believe in defence or persuasion, just for the mere fun of verbal sparring?...) then at least, you'll have an idea of how much effort you want to use in dealing with this person and the means to do so
     
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  4. tovlo

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    I've never thought of it in those terms, but I suppose, yes, I do believe it happens.

    No, but they can create a situation where the other might feel emotions of humiliation and insecurity deep enough that they would choose something they would not otherwise choose if they were standing on a different emotional platform.

    Yes. I don't know if it's by nature or nurture or both, but I'm one of those people.

    This sounds like you are asking a question of degree, but I experience possible or not as a yes/no question and so I'm not sure how to answer this.

    I believe it is possible for someone to feel denigrated and humiliated by the nonphysical interaction of someone they perceive to be of higher education or intelligence.

    How easily this might be accomplished, I guess, would depend on the level of aggression and the level of insecurity of the parties involved.

    I don't know what's the most appropriate way, but I withdraw. If find myself in company where I recognize my own sense of self threatened and I don't feel strong enough to defend it, I leave. Or I submit.
     
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    #4 tovlo, Apr 12, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
  5. anahata

    anahata Regular Poster

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    Oh absolutely, they are called manipulative arseholes. I think it
     
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  6. corvidae

    corvidae ohai internets
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    Ayn Rand is an intellectual bully.
     
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  7. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    The intellectual bullies I have met have generally been less intelligent and less educated than their peers.

    Their ability to impose their thoughts seems to lie in several skills:

    Sophistry - making the illogical sound logical.
    Rhetoric - making the unappealing sound appealing.
    Alarmism - making the unimportant seem important.
    Marketing - making the unpopular seem popular.
    Lying - making the untrue sound true.
     
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  8. anica

    anica dark dreamer
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    Intellectual Bullying

    As usual, Tovlo, well thought out and exquisitely expressed. This was very much my own experience until doing extremely well in law school bolstered my confidence in my own analytical abilities. I still dislike conflict, however, and tend to avoid it by withdrawing; so perhaps I'm still being bullied, but it feels more like choosing not to engage and my sense of self remains more intact, I think.
     
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  9. PsilocinProject

    PsilocinProject Community Member

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    What if what you don't want to believe is also the truth?

    Look at the world today. It's one big cluster fuck of intellectual bullying. Religion, economy, ethics, philosophies, etc. They're all forms of false ideas shoved into the skull of the common man to make them perceive reality in a way that is beneficial to the powers that be. The way people think of reality is an illusion- A lie.

    So, yes, intellectual bullying exists, on a grand scale.
     
  10. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    Intellectual bullying is actually much more prominent than most people realize. It's rather easy to actually get a wide majority of the population to believe something, especially if there's conformism involved.

    If people come to believe someone is smarter than them, it's usually pretty easy for them to get insecure enough to believe that person, especially if that person is pushy or aggressive in their beliefs.
     
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  11. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I've got skills in these:

    Sophistry - making the illogical sound logical.
    Rhetoric - making the unappealing sound appealing.
     
  12. Wyote

    Wyote Dad of the Ded
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    Intellectual bullying is a huge problem, and often the bully is not even fully aware of their own wrong doing. On a similiar note, the one being bullied is often times oblivious to the pressure being exerted upon them. It ranges from extremely subtle and cunning to all out rampant verbal masturbation.

    The solution is quite simple, though difficult to learn. The key is simply in recognizing when it occurs. When you learn to recognize when it is happening, it becomes plainly obvious that the bully is not actually certain of their own argument (why else would they feel the need to bully?) which should in turn send a signal to your brain telling you "hey, this person is a kook. I should stand up for myself" and then it is a matter of chiming in with whatever quip is suitable for the moment. Whether it be a logical retort or simple avoidance is to be determined on a case by case basis.
     
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  13. Tarakini

    Tarakini Guest

    No, I don't believe in it. People say stuff and you believe it or think about it or not as you choose and wish to. It could only be bullying if it were used to force you to comply with something or to get a good grade or something. Bullying doesn't have to be physical of course. You could tell someone you will not allow them to participate in something you have control over unless they do as they ask of you. "You can't come to my party unless you wear pants" could be considered bullying you know!:m142: < Any sort of control over others may be considered bullying, but just talking like you are intelligent is not bullying to me.
     
  14. Wyote

    Wyote Dad of the Ded
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    It is used all the time to perpetuate groupthink. Saying you don't believe in it is like saying you don't believe in peanut butter. Language is a tool which is used for good and bad. Whether or not you let it affect you in any way is another matter entirely. As you say, you choose to think how you want as do many people, but there are those out there whom are susceptible to various verbal lingual/mind tricks. Similarly there are those aware of this who exploit others weaknesses for personal gain.
     
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  15. Tarakini

    Tarakini Guest

    Mr. Coyte. I don't mean this to go off topic, but I hope to rather expand it, but what is there to be personally gained by bullying others? I can differentiate this in some ways in the sense that if a parent does this to a child or a teacher to a student or a boss to a worker, then I think this is horrible on the part of the perpetrator, what can they gain by that? And what could that be worth, and what they are doing to the other is reprehensible, but what you do to another comes from your own strengths and weakness.

    The second way is when it is between what would seem to be peers where there is not the threat of punishment because of age or control things and in this I have to see both the victim and the perpetrator as both being at common fault.

    Now. Since you seem of the intellectual (but not bullying) type, may I ask of you another question? Who is to be felt the more compassion for? The bullier or the bullied?
     
  16. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Not true. Because there are better things to do than go to someones party, and it's their house anyway. Also, they're showing a way you COULD go to their place.
     
  17. Wyote

    Wyote Dad of the Ded
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    Great questions! As far as what people gain from bullying, it is at its core always to do with ego stroking. Being right, asserting dominance and so forth feel good to a bully. As far as the specific psychological reasoning behind this, I am not equipped to delve into that fully. There are tons of books out there on the subject.

    I believe you are correct in seeing both at fault and I absolutely agree. Each plays a part, and each should be given equal compassion.
     
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  18. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    I'm bringing back this topic because this seems interesting.

    Personally, yes, I do believe in it. Because I've been on both sides.

    It is the harsher form of convincing, actually. The usual message sent in one of those bullying is "how stupid you are (for not believing what I believe)"
    Thus, conforming is a form of ego defense here. Something human (learning from one's mistakes) done out of a human fear (so that they are wrong no more).

    The solution...is quite hard. I found that deflecting / lowering the significance of the 'topic' in question helps, but it cannot work at all time.
     
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  19. La Sagna

    La Sagna Trying to become a butterfly

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    I have to agree with [MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] on this.

    I think most people who employ bullying techniques to get others to acquiesce to their positions are usually not as smart as they make themselves out to be.
    However, others are very intelligent but they have other deficiencies that make them act in this way, such as a weak ego that needs to be fed through demeaning another human being or needing to be recognizes as 'right'.

    I have been 'bullied' into having to, not necessarily agree (because I can't lie and agree to something I don't), but be quiet and not push the point for fear of repercussions in retaliation for having an opinion other than theirs. In those cases I was much more informed than them on the matters and wanting to discuss in a rational way but they were unable to do so, or even entertain the thought that I might be more informed than them. If anything, if I made a logical point they would get angrier and more determined to stick to their illogical positions.

    These bullying incidences were all perpetrated by male family members who all left me feeling that their need to protect their ego is stronger than their respect or care for me. That was a hard lesson.
     
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  20. Rcs6r

    Rcs6r Must be the feeling~
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    Yes, there is in fact a word for this:


    Coercion (n.): persuasion of (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats; to obtain something by such means.
     
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