INFJs and Vegetarianism | INFJ Forum

INFJs and Vegetarianism

AJ_

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Jul 22, 2012
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About 8 years ago, I saw a short clip showing how cows are abused in slaughter houses. The feeling/compassionate side of me saw this and vowed to no longer eat meat. Being a complete idiot when it comes to nutrition at the time, I ended up eating a bunch of pretzels and basically gave up after about two months.

When I gave up and started eating meat again, I would say, “Well, the animal has already died, and my eating meat or abstaining from it is not going to stop them from doing what they are doing.”

Recently, I’ve had a change of heart. First of all, I feel like when I eat meat, I am partaking in the abuse towards animals – I am saying that it is ok and that I’m ok with it. Secondly, and this may be selfish, but I am feeding my body with a dead carcass – one that has had to live in miserable conditions and has probably been tortured before being slaughtered. Some people believe that even water has memory – how much more memory does blood and DNA have? And I put that in myself.

Again, when it comes to something like eating meat, I originally thought that my choice would have no effect on anything. Then I thought about the Hermetic principle: That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing. What if this principle is true to some extent? Maybe the entire world won’t change, but maybe the world that I see will look different. Maybe it will look brighter and more blissful if I don’t partake in the torture and abuse of animals. The eyes of that animal saw the world – the animal feels cold and warm like I do, it can feel afraid like me. If I can exist without putting that poor thing into myself, then why wouldn’t I choose that?

This time I wised up and bought a bunch of almonds and walnuts and kidney beans to make up for protein. I feel better and I’ve lost weight. If you are on the fence about becoming a vegetarian, try it - find protein alternatives and see how you feel :)

“As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.”
Pythagorus

“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”
Albert Einstein

“As long as there are slaughter houses there will always be battlefields.”
Leo Tolstoy

“I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.”
Mahatma Gandhi

"It is more important to prevent animal suffering, rather than sit to contemplate the evils of the universe praying in the company of priests."
Buddha

On general principles the raising of cattle as a means of providing food is objectionable. It is certainly preferable to raise vegetables, and I think, therefore, that vegetarianism is a commendable departure from the established barbarian habit. That we can subsist on plant food and perform our work even to advantage is not a theory but a well-demonstrated fact. Many races living almost exclusively on vegetables are of superior physique and strength. There is no doubt that some plant food, such as oatmeal, is more economical than meat, and superior to it in regard to both mechanical and mental performance. Such food, moreover, taxes our digestive organs decidedly less, and in making us more contented and sociable, produces an amount of good difficult to estimate. In view of these facts every effort should be made to stop the wanton, cruel slaughter of animals, which must be destructive to our morals."
Nikola Tesla

Even so, in the beginning, some wild and mischievous beast was killed and eaten, and then some little bird or fish was entrapped. And the desire of slaughter, being first experimented and exercised in these, at last passed even to the laboring ox, and the sheep that clothes us, and to the poor cock that keeps the house; until by little and little, unsatiableness, being strengthened by use, men came to the slaughter of men, to bloodshed and wars."
Plutarch
 
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I apologize for leaving my post incomplete. Whether you are INFJ or not, what are your thoughts about being/becoming a vegetarian? Saying it doesn’t matter is still a valid response :)

Wish everyone a great weekend!
 
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very interesting subject! here my story with vegetarianism.

i ate meat growing up, but never pork. my grandfather owned a farm and slaughterhouse, and my dad must have definitely seen and done things that traumatized him there. one of the few stories that i know is that my granddad would make my father pick a domestic pig every year and then force him to eat it after it was slaughtered.

so anyways, i was young and idealistic in high school like everyone else, and i remember reading "eating animals" by Jonathan saffron foer and being freaked out and horrified at the living conditions for those poor animals. i became a vegetarian that day, which pissed off and confused my parents, because they didn't know what to cook for me. i remained a vegetarian for two years and i only stopped because my doctor told me that i was dangerously low on protein and i was cold/sick all of the time.

now i love meat. i can't see myself going back to vegetarianism again. but i know people that are vegetarians that are very healthy and loving it.
 
I think it is a necessity. Maybe not in terms of strict vegetarianism or veganismas it can take many forms for many people. Mainly dependent on your preexisting level of health and whatnot. Aside from that; vegetarianism simply allows humans to use more free energy through their bodies. It makes the physical body closer to the etheric body, further making it stronger and more lighter. This lightness can help heal many issues that could be plaguing the physical body and damaging the etheric energy field of the individual. The energy spent digesting heavy animal meats becomes available to be used by the mind and the body; BASED on the fact that you are sourcing your food from a non gmo, non monsanto, organic and natural sources ( which is whole another war that is being waged on people's health - go research Monsanto-GMO if interested).

Human digestive processes is much more closer to that of a cow than that of a predator animal. 90% of one's immunity resides in the instestines and gut - so it makes sense that keeping your insides healthy with organic vegetables and alternative protein sources will dramatically improve one's well being, normalize hormonal imbalance, reduce stress and inflammation and overall allow an individual to feel healthier and live longer.

The downsides to vegetarianism include expense and lack of local community sourcing. People who don't live near urban farms and organic groceries will find it difficult to follow a greener lifestyle. I am also not so keen on the hormonal malnutrition as a result of no animal fat and protein for females. It will all depend on how one goes about replacing these meats with alternatives. I think vegetarianism overall has many benefits in the long term and offers a better alternative to the health care crisis this first world nation seems to face.
 
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I am vegetarian mostly because it's easier for me, gives me an excuse to splurge on fruits and vegetables, and I don't miss the meat. Variation is crucial to attain the necessary vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals, but it's been quite well worth it for me. Although these books are more centered around a vegan diet, "Super Immunity" and "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman have a lot of empirical backing (except for the China Study, which has since been shredded to pieces) and explanation for why fruits/veggies are so important and which do what for us. The author can be dogmatic at some points, but, IMO, his data are solid and his recommendations helpful. Definitely recommended for folks interested in any flavor of vegetarianism, or plant-based nutritional information in general.
 
I became a vegetarian little over 3 years ago. I had gradually started eating less and less meat, until I reached a point where it became repulsive for me to eat meat and I stopped eating meat all together.

Personally I don't think protein is the problem, there are lots of great substitutes. The issue is making sure you get all the vitamins you need.
 
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i was a vegetarian from the time i was 13 to around 28-29… i was raised on a very meat heavy diet and i just didn’t want to eat it anymore… that was my primary motivator… although i did continue to eat fish/seafood and milk… i never judged anyone who ate meat and would cook it often for my ex-husband… i began to eat meat because it started to look good to me again…
 
I eat meat but not a lot of it. I respect the lives of all creatures but I also think it is normal for creatures to eat each other some times, because they do. Yes I am an animal. To say otherwise is hubris on my part.

To say I'm not also an animal is wrong because I'm not perfect and do wrong things. I'm in control? Hmm I don't think I am. We like to claim that feelings and urges don't rule us but the fact is that if we don't accept that we have urges, then we must say that we do all wrongs willfully and on purpose. If we say we have full control then we must also say we choose to not be perfect, and every small thing counts too, such a small lie or losing your temper a little bit. If you're in control then it's you doing it on purpose, and why would you do that?
 
I eat predominantly meat... Every meal... Every day.
 

Yeah that's VigLink. It's annoying but helps pay for the site I guess.

Only thing I really dislike about that is it changes my posts without my consent (like it was doing every time I said 'space shuttle' in another thread) and it bothers me that people might think I am the one doing the advertising when I'm not. It's really irritating.
 
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I've been leaning towards being vegetarian lately. It's because I think all food is energy and I only want to consume good energy. I remember a time in my life when I had way too much cortisol built up in my system. I think that when you consume cows or chickens and they are raised in unnatural environments, they experience all the same things humans do when they are trapped and unhappy. And that energy is not good to consume. It will cause cancer and other health issues. So while I rarely eat meat, I do like to have a bison burger on rare occasions. But I like to make sure that the meat came from an animal that was given a decent lifestyle. Not trapped in a cage and forced to step on its own shit all day.

So yeah I eat meat maybe once a week. But I see myself getting closer and closer to vegetarianism as time goes on.

I'm more of an ENFP though but I used to be an INFJ.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97836

Researcher: Vegetarian Diet Kills Animals Too
May 1
By Lee Dye

Steven Davis says he didn't set out to start a fight, but found one when he began attacking one of the most sacred beliefs of the vegetarian community.

One of the reasons most commonly cited by vegetarians for giving up meat is the conviction that other animals have a right to life as well as humans. But when Davis began setting up a course on animal ethics for the animal science department at Oregon State University four years ago, he reached a rather surprising conclusion.

Nobody's hands are free from the blood of other animals, not even vegetarians, he concluded. Millions of animals are killed every year, Davis says, to prepare land for growing crops, "like corn, soybean, wheat and barley, the staples of a vegan diet."

Smaller Victims

The animals in this case are mice and moles and rabbits and other creatures that are run over by tractors, or lose their habitat to make way for farming, so they are not as "visible" as cattle, he says.

And that, Davis says, gives rise to a fundamental question: "What is it that makes it OK to kill animals of the field so that we can eat [vegetables or fruits] but not pigs or chickens or cows?"

Any disruption of the land, whether it be to farm or to build subdivisions, reduces the amount of land left for other animals, resulting in the deaths of many. And Davis, a professor of animal science at Oregon State who grew up on a farm, says as a child he saw animals killed by the routine operation of farm machinery, so there's no way to have a bloodless farm.

"If they say they don't want to kill an animal so they can eat, I think their conclusion is misguided because they are killing animals so that they can eat that vegetarian diet," Davis says. "Those animals happen to be a little bit invisible. They are not as obvious to the man on the street as killing a steer in the slaughterhouse. But nonetheless, it's still going on."

Ever since he revealed his conclusions, Davis' e-mail box has been jammed with responses, much of it from vegetarians, and not all of it friendly. Most of it, though, has been "quite decent," he says, because vegetarians tend to be well-educated, sensitive and thoughtful folks.
 
Hi Sprinkles – thank you for your posts.

For the article about vegetarian diet killing animals, it helps me to think of the concept of ahimsa, meaning “least harm” or doing least harm (it often is interpreted as non-violence which is not entirely correct).

Consider the following article:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

U.S. could feed 800 million people with grain that livestock eat, Cornell ecologist advises animal scientists

MONTREAL -- From one ecologist's perspective, the American system of farming grain-fed livestock consumes resources far out of proportion to the yield, accelerates soil erosion, affects world food supply and will be changing in the future.

"If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million," David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year, Pimentel estimated.

Animal protein production requires more than eight times as much fossil-fuel energy than production of plant protein while yielding animal protein that is only 1.4 times more nutritious for humans than the comparable amount of plant protein, according to the Cornell ecologist's analysis.

Animal agriculture is a leading consumer of water resources in the United States, Pimentel noted. Grain-fed beef production takes 100,000 liters of water for every kilogram of food. Raising broiler chickens takes 3,500 liters of water to make a kilogram of meat. In comparison, soybean production uses 2,000 liters for kilogram of food produced; rice, 1,912; wheat, 900; and potatoes, 500 liters. "Water shortages already are severe in the Western and Southern United States and the situation is quickly becoming worse because of a rapidly growing U.S. population that requires more water for all of its needs, especially agriculture," Pimentel observed.

Livestock are directly or indirectly responsible for much of the soil erosion in the United States, the ecologist determined. On lands where feed grain is produced, soil loss averages 13 tons per hectare per year. Pasture lands are eroding at a slower pace, at an average of 6 tons per hectare per year. But erosion may exceed 100 tons on severely overgrazed pastures, and 54 percent of U.S. pasture land is being overgrazed.
"More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans," Pimentel said. "Although grain production is increasing in total, the per capita supply has been decreasing for more than a decade. Clearly, there is reason for concern in the future."

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While eating strictly vegetarian may not completely eliminate the unnecessary death and displacement of animals, the amount of land needed for crops is greatly increased when those crops must be fed to livestock first. Therefore, I feel like the least harmful choice would be the vegetarian one.

The other point you made above is that we eat meat because we are animals. Gorillas are animals also (and they have pretty fierce-looking canine teeth that I wouldn’t want to get close to) but yet they are herbivores (if you don’t count some of the ants they might consume when eating plants, fruit or tree bark). My feeling at this point is that if we were really ever meant to eat meat, we would be able to eat it raw without getting sick. Still, I don’t mean any of this to be an argument, just thoughts for people who might be on the fence about it and may want to hear some differing viewpoints.
 
[MENTION=5807]AJ_[/MENTION]

Sure, I can understand the concept of least harm. Just pointing out there's a big difference between least harm and guilt free.
 
If you're INFJ, and you eat meat, I will excommunicate you

Under whose authority do you excommunicate? And are you gonna make me an "E" instead of an "I"?
I do not turn my nose up at vegetarian fare, but I also eat meat.
 
I always wondered about these questions about people who commit to vegetarianism. Feel free to enlighten me as I do not know myself.

Do most vegetarians stop eating meat due to guilt or is it really because they have venerable respect for all living things?
Would they still respect a cow if that was the last source of food that was available to them and it was the only way to survive?
Is watching a animal slaughter video enough to convince people to stop consuming meat or can we still have respect for animals and still co exist while consuming meat?
Just because you are vegetarian; does that mean you are healthier than a meat eater?
Why do vegetarians still use leather and animal derived products? We can use them for basic supplies as long as we don't eat them?
 
[MENTION=5807]AJ_[/MENTION]

Sure, I can understand the concept of least harm. Just pointing out there's a big difference between least harm and guilt free.

Wow, you're incredibly smart and I'm not. Please explain to me the big difference between least harm and guilt free?
 
Wow, you're incredibly smart and I'm not. Please explain to me the big difference between least harm and guilt free?

Guilt free in the context of the OP would be killing exactly zero animals.

Least harm is killing as few as you can manage but can be non-zero.

The OP makes it seem like by being a vegetarian you avoid killing animals entirely and this is not true. These two quotes specifically:
“I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.”
Mahatma Gandhi

"It is more important to prevent animal suffering, rather than sit to contemplate the evils of the universe praying in the company of priests."
Buddha

If we care about this we have to recognize that farming still kills animals. We can't say that vegetarianism meets the above quotes because it is not true in today's world of industrial farming.

I feel it is wrong to not look any further and pretend that we are bloodless by eating vegetables.