INFJs and Vegetarianism

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Guilt free in the context of the OP would be killing exactly zero animals.

Least harm is killing as few as you can manage but can be non-zero.

The OP makes it seem like by being a vegetarian you avoid killing animals entirely and this is not true. These two quotes specifically:
“I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.”
Mahatma Gandhi

"It is more important to prevent animal suffering, rather than sit to contemplate the evils of the universe praying in the company of priests."
Buddha

If we care about this we have to recognize that farming still kills animals. We can't say that vegetarianism meets the above quotes because it is not true in today's world of industrial farming.

I feel it is wrong to not look any further and pretend that we are bloodless by eating vegetables.

You're full of shit.

"Guilt free in the context of the OP would be killing exactly zero animals." - all you have to do is read the opening post to see it's almost entirely about the treatment of the animals and their emotional well-being. Not about simply how many we kill.

And the two quotes you posted don't back shit up either. Gandhi was talking about killing animals to fulfill the satisfaction of our bodily wants. Not about eating plants to fulfill our bodily needs. And the Buddah quote just says we should prevent animal suffering. Which is right in line with the OP's REAL context of caring about the treatment of animals and their emotional state. Not just looking at it like a numbers game.

So sorry but you are completely full of shit.

 

[sprinkles]

You're full of shit.

"Guilt free in the context of the OP would be killing exactly zero animals." - all you have to do is read the opening post to see it's almost entirely about the treatment of the animals and their emotional well-being. Not about simply how many we kill.

And the two quotes you posted don't back shit up either. Gandhi was talking about killing animals to fulfill the satisfaction of our bodily wants. Not about eating plants to fulfill our bodily needs. And the Buddah quote just says we should prevent animal suffering. Which is right in line with the OP's REAL context of caring about the treatment of animals and their emotional state. Not just looking at it like a numbers game.

So sorry but you are completely full of shit.

I may be full of shit but combines still chop the heads off of rabbits. Ignore that if you wish.

 

[DonTaushMe]

Vegetarians and Vegans piss me off >:|

 

[SealHammer]

Meat's good and it's good for you. Just don't eat too much of it.

Also try not to kill more than you need and don't kill it in a cruel manner and it's all good. Things die, that's the way of life.

 

[barbad0s]

I lie about my diet to stop those around me from controlling my behaviour if I have to. I do the same with what I say my religion is too! Reducing the pain in the ass the people around me cause is my top priority and that includes being more important than both my health and ethics.

 

[Elis]

like excessive makeup, even when we're lying we set a standard. I guess that wouldn't be much of an issue if people weren't so afraid to think for themselves

 

[barbad0s]

like excessive makeup, even when we're lying we set a standard. I guess that wouldn't be much of an issue if people weren't so afraid to think for themselves

I honestly want to understand what you mean but you'll have to be a little more explicit or maybe create another analogy or use an example.

 

[Elis]

[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]

If you're lying to not deal with their bs then you on some level accept it. to others this will look like your standard and people will think that they need to uphold it as well.

 

[barbad0s]

I do try to live in harmony with people's bs to the best of my abilities if it's not something I feel they are ready to change or if I'm not willing to risk them not being ready to accept me. That is my final answer.

 

[barbad0s]

I just bought some bison burgers and I want to heat one up but my vegetarian room mate is in the kitchen and I don't want to be disrespectful towards her.

 

[sprinkles]

I lie about my diet to stop those around me from controlling my behaviour if I have to. I do the same with what I say my religion is too! Reducing the pain in the ass the people around me cause is my top priority and that includes being more important than both my health and ethics.

I think everyone does this a little bit at least, niffer. Because almost nobody likes to be told they're doing it wrong.

 

[Matt3737]

Animal populations will breed until they starve without predation, disease, or a reproductive bottleneck/limiting behavior.

The Humane Society actually recommends immunocontraception, which is fine, but I disagree with the premise that killing is inherently unmerciful.

Judaism and Islam have dietary laws that determine how animals should be mercifully killed. I find these acceptable and would like to see Christians and secular society subscribe to something similar.

“The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.”
― Charles Darwin

We feed wild deer at our home twice a day. This is me:

 

[Lerxst]

I've been vegan for... 9... years now.. I think? My wife is vegan and our son is also being raised vegan (and yes, he's perfectly healthy, chunky, tall and full of energy at 14 months old).

Just think, I used to joke around and criticize people for being "veggies"...

To start it off, I rescued wildlife (Rehabber) in a city for a few years and began feeling like a hypocrite for rescuing animals by day and eating them at night. That got the gears turning.

Then a volunteer position turned into a full-time career as I took on another job living and working on a sanctuary full time. Some things that really changed me were:

Seeing prolapsed cows walking around in obvious pain and discomfort due to a lifetime of constant forced breeding... aka raping... nursing calves and then more breeding. Yep, even if you don't eat them, this is pretty much their fate until they're butchered in older age.

Nursing dying hens back to almost-health to watch them die slowly and painfully afterwards from Egg Peritonitis (un-laid egg breaking inside the hen)... THIS is actually a really horrible one to witness first hand. It's slow, taking weeks to progress, and can't be easily treated of cured without invasive surgery which will likely kill them as much as the condition. The condition is caused primarily by malnourished, caused by commercial breeding... or anyone who has chickens that they constantly allow to lay eggs over and over again.

Living with a baby goat in our house (loooooooong story behind that one) that used to consider me "Maaaaaaaaaaa" and cry out for me every time I left the room.

Holding a dying rooster in my hand that had just been mauled by a dog while he was protecting his hens. Then watching his eyes close and die without being able to do anything about it.

Then I watched Earthlings ad never had any desire in any way, shape or form to ever touch anything related to any part of the animal industry ever again.

And here's a video that will make you never look at a chicken the same way again!


[video=youtube_share;Rez-u39PKIg]http://youtu.be/Rez-u39PKIg[/video]

 

[INFJ16]

About 8 years ago, I saw a short clip showing how cows are abused in slaughter houses. The feeling/compassionate side of me saw this and vowed to no longer eat meat. Being a complete idiot when it comes to nutrition at the time, I ended up eating a bunch of pretzels and basically gave up after about two months.

Do you believe that the issue of eating meat is that they kill cows or that they abuse them? I don't know what kind of abuse in slaughter houses occurs, but isn't the issue more about the actual abuse of the cows rather than killing them? If the management of slaughter houses was controlled more efficiently and made more humane, would you still have a problem with eating meat?

 

[AJ_]

[MENTION=11884]INFJ16[/MENTION],
Thank you for your post. I'd like to share one quick article and then I'll respond to your question below:

Are Humans Carnivores or Herbivores?
September 9th, 2005 by Steve Pavlina

Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….

- Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
- Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
- Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
- Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly – they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
- Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
- Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
- Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.
But aren’t humans anatomically suited to be omnivores?

Nope. We don’t anatomically match up with omnivorous animals anymore than we do with carnivorous ones. Omnivores are more similar to carnivores than they are to herbivores. For a more detailed summary table that compares the properties of carnivores, herbivores, and omnivores side by side, see this page:
Comparative Anatomy & Taxonomy

A car is designed to consume gasoline. A carnivore is designed to eat meat. An herbivore is designed to eat plant-based food. We wouldn't put orange juice into a car and expect it to run efficiently, we wouldn't give a spinach salad to a tiger -- why would we feed animal meat to something that was meant to eat plant-based food? We have been conditioned by society to view eating meat as natural for humans - I don't believe it is natural and I feel that there is a lot of evidence to back this up.

But I'd like to take the question one step further. What about animal products like leather shoes or leather furniture? What if the animal was killed humanely for this purpose? At this point in my life, I would not choose products made from animals that have been killed even humanely. This is a personal choice and I don't join picketing groups demanding that other people follow my views.

 

[Matt3737]

[MENTION=11884]INFJ16[/MENTION],
Thank you for your post. I'd like to share one quick article and then I'll respond to your question below:



A car is designed to consume gasoline. A carnivore is designed to eat meat. An herbivore is designed to eat plant-based food. We wouldn't put orange juice into a car and expect it to run efficiently, we wouldn't give a spinach salad to a tiger -- why would we feed animal meat to something that was meant to eat plant-based food? We have been conditioned by society to view eating meat as natural for humans - I don't believe it is natural and I feel that there is a lot of evidence to back this up.

But I'd like to take the question one step further. What about animal products like leather shoes or leather furniture? What if the animal was killed humanely for this purpose? At this point in my life, I would not choose products made from animals that have been killed even humanely. This is a personal choice and I don't join picketing groups demanding that other people follow my views.

Name another animal that cooks their food and I'll take this article seriously.

 

[Faye]

Guilt free in the context of the OP would be killing exactly zero animals.

Least harm is killing as few as you can manage but can be non-zero.

The OP makes it seem like by being a vegetarian you avoid killing animals entirely and this is not true. These two quotes specifically:
“I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants.”
Mahatma Gandhi

"It is more important to prevent animal suffering, rather than sit to contemplate the evils of the universe praying in the company of priests."
Buddha

If we care about this we have to recognize that farming still kills animals. We can't say that vegetarianism meets the above quotes because it is not true in today's world of industrial farming.

I feel it is wrong to not look any further and pretend that we are bloodless by eating vegetables.

But avoiding eating meat kills far less animals and is far less water intensive. Isn't that worth something? Also, I know that some industrial farming practices are bad, but I'm not sure how they contribute to the death of animals aside from genetically modified crops wreaking havoc in ecosystems that they escape into. Or were you referring to killing insects with loads of pesticide?

 

[sprinkles]

But avoiding eating meat kills far less animals and is far less water intensive. Isn't that worth something? Also, I know that some industrial farming practices are bad, but I'm not sure how they contribute to the death of animals aside from genetically modified crops wreaking havoc in ecosystems that they escape into. Or were you referring to killing insects with loads of pesticide?

I'm not talking about all that. I'm talking about people who would have you believe that not eating meat doesn't kill any animals. This is just as ignorant and detached as ordering a slab of meat without knowing where it came from.

 

[sprinkles]

Name another animal that cooks their food and I'll take this article seriously.

Even if no other animal cooks food, there are plenty which prepare food using tools. Otters bust open clams using rocks. Shrikes impale lizards and frogs onto thorns or barbed wire fences so they can use it as a meat hook to more easily butcher their prey, and they also use this as storage for their food.

What difference does some heat make when a bird captures a toxic grasshopper and impales it on a spike for two days which is long enough for the toxin to become harmless to the bird, which then comes back to eat dinner?

 

[sprinkles]

[video=youtube;RPXDouwQFFs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPXDouwQFFs[/video]