INFJ or Borderline?

The key word with all personality disorders is "extreme." I think the main thing about BPD is a lack of an internally defined sense of self or confusion about their identity in relation to others and extremely self-destructive behaviors, such as addictions and suicide attempts. They have an extreme fear of abandonment and can sometimes go to extreme measures to avoid the real or imagined abandonment. They also tend to lack emotional boundaries and have trouble maintaining any sort of healthy relationship with others. I remember that in my abnormal psych class the prof said that they are often victims of sexual or emotional abuse. I think this is very different from a normal INFJ, who is sensitive but still able to separate their own needs from the needs of others. But NF types are probably more likely to have it...*Also forgot to add that their feelings towards others tend to change a lot. Like one day so and so might be their best friend, then the next they hate that person with a passion because of one argument they had.


[video=youtube;liBJhHDw3o8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liBJhHDw3o8[/video]
 
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The way a derringer is different from a submachine gun, I would say.
 
There's a thread called INTJ or Asperger's on the INTJ forum. I wonder if this is becoming a trend.

ESFP or Bipolar disorder. ENTP or Antisocial disorder.
 
It's because all these disorders and personality types are blended and exist on a spectrum so it's hard to pinpoint one or the other. Also people on these forums are probably more likely to be the type who are constantly asking "who am I". So they are more likely to question things like this.
 
There is a difference between personality type and a given disorder. I believe that genetic predisposition, combined with psychological type, trauma and other environmental triggers, cause the given disorder.

There was a thread around here that tried to relate crappy childhood to being INFJ. I don't think that the childhood makes one an INFJ. I think being an INFJ makes one turn out differently from those experiences, than another type (among other factors).
 
Paladin-X said:
There is a difference between personality type and a given disorder. I believe that genetic predisposition, combined with psychological type, trauma and other environmental triggers, cause the given disorder.

There was a thread around here that tried to relate crappy childhood to being INFJ. I don't think that the childhood makes one an INFJ. I think being an INFJ makes one turn out differently from those experiences, than another type (among other factors).
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I agreed.
And also, perhaps there are some correlation, but it's not exactly limited to a specific type.

Like, perhaps INFJs have a bigger chance to have borderline personality disorder.
Or, does borderline personality disorder make someone (appear to be / look / act / think like) an INFJ?

Perhaps crappy childhood does play some part in making an INFJ.
Or, do INFJs just have more emotional / psychological sensitivity that makes crappy childhood felt even worse than they are?
 
It's the scarcity that causes dramatic comparisons.

Really, who cares if it's 2% of the population? Who should care if it's even the same two percent?

People have too much stock in what they read, especially when it comes to small percentages. So, I might say that there's only 1% INFJs so therefore there's a difference between INFJ and BPD (since BPD is 2%) but in actuality that is really inane for me to say, and I just don't know.

Another one is when people say that there's too many INFJs and starts claiming that some of them must be false since they believe it goes against the 1% of population idea. Well maybe that 1% factoid is wrong, but it is rarely questioned- it gets taken as some kind of fact and they expect other information to align with it. That's not how it works.
 
toska said:
The key word with all personality disorders is "extreme." I think the main thing about BPD is a lack of an internally defined sense of self or confusion about their identity in relation to others and extremely self-destructive behaviors, such as addictions and suicide attempts. They have an extreme fear of abandonment and can sometimes go to extreme measures to avoid the real or imagined abandonment. They also tend to lack emotional boundaries and have trouble maintaining any sort of healthy relationship with others. I remember that in my abnormal psych class the prof said that they are often victims of sexual or emotional abuse. I think this is very different from a normal INFJ, who is sensitive but still able to separate their own needs from the needs of others. But NF types are probably more likely to have it...*Also forgot to add that their feelings towards others tend to change a lot. Like one day so and so might be their best friend, then the next they hate that person with a passion because of one argument they had.


[video=youtube;liBJhHDw3o8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liBJhHDw3o8[/video]
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This

 
sprinkles said:
It's the scarcity that causes dramatic comparisons.

Really, who cares if it's 2% of the population? Who should care if it's even the same two percent?

People have too much stock in what they read, especially when it comes to small percentages. So, I might say that there's only 1% INFJs so therefore there's a difference between INFJ and BPD (since BPD is 2%) but in actuality that is really inane for me to say, and I just don't know.

Another one is when people say that there's too many INFJs and starts claiming that some of them must be false since they believe it goes against the 1% of population idea. Well maybe that 1% factoid is wrong, but it is rarely questioned- it gets taken as some kind of fact and they expect other information to align with it. That's not how it works.
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Yah I agree it was just an interesting correlation. It seems the big difference is the extreme actions. Like yelling at people and stuff. Even though INFJ's and other people might feel like doing it they have the restraint not to. A person with BPD would just let loose because the emotions are overwhelming.

True about the fact part too. We assume these are the facts, like lots of things in life, but they probably aren't.
 
chulo said:
Yah I agree it was just an interesting correlation. It seems the big difference is the extreme actions. Like yelling at people and stuff. Even though INFJ's and other people might feel like doing it they have the restraint not to. A person with BPD would just let loose because the emotions are overwhelming.

True about the fact part too. We assume these are the facts, like lots of things in life, but they probably aren't.
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Yeah. What I figure, given the concept of shadow types, is that some INFJs can be BPD but it isn't inherent.

If you subscribe to shadow types, INFJ would be ENFPs shadow, so an ENFP under stress may exhibit the functions that an INFJ would normally be seen using. So if the behavior is maladaptive it might actually be a good idea to check if something is actually flipped.

So in this case it might even be possible that some people with BPD may appear INFJ like, but would actually be another type with the functions flipped around to appear that way.
 
Uh...

If you have a disorder, it seriously impairs the way you function. People with personality disorders act in completely irrational and abnormal ways. Just because someone is extremely emotional or unique doesn't make them disordered.

Even though people with personality disorders typically won't have any use for conventional personality categorization systems, it is possible that BPD people bear strong resemblance to the INFJ type description, compared to those of other types. It's kind of like how a square can be a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be considered a square.
 
Chulo, nothing you described sounds like BPD. The F is the only one that is correct.

Judging isn't the same as SPLITTING. Dissociation is not the same as disconnecting. Entire different ballgame...one is a ballgame the other is a hurricane.
 
CindyLou said:
Chulo, nothing you described sounds like BPD. The F is the only one that is correct.

Judging isn't the same as SPLITTING. Dissociation is not the same as disconnecting. Entire different ballgame...one is a ballgame the other is a hurricane.
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I know they aren't the same but I just thought it was interesting that they seem related. I wonder if people with BPD cut people out of their lives because subconsciously they want closure the same way a judger does. Keeping someone in their life after they did something they perceive as evil would be like leaving a loose end in their life that could cause problems later. So they start "splitting". It seems like it could be driven by a desire to have closure in the mind. I don't know though, I'm just making assumptions based on what I'm most familiar with.

Most people experience dissociation at some point in life even if they don't have a disorder, I feel I've experienced it at certain times. For me it feels very Ni. That was my experience but that is also my preference. So perhaps I'm just assuming my experience is universal and that's why I compared it to Ni. I wonder what it feels like when other people experience it. Or if what I have experienced is true dissociation.
 
niffer said:
Even though people with personality disorders typically won't have any use for conventional personality categorization systems, it is possible that BPD people bear strong resemblance to the INFJ type description, compared to those of other types. It's kind of like how a square can be a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be considered a square.
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I don't get why people with personality disorders typically won't have any use for conventional personality categorization systems. People with BPD usually have a concrete personality underneath their various "schemas" and BPD isn't a multiple personality disorder. They are usually unsure of who they are. But that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a true personality. I just think they have trouble knowing what that person is. I don't know though because I don't have BPD. I'm just going based on my own experience.

And I could easily see how a person with BPD might appear very INFJish but actually be a different type. Sort of like when ENFX's are in distress and they transform into temporary INFJ's. Similar sort of thing.
 
chulo said:
I don't get why people with personality disorders typically won't have any use for conventional personality categorization systems. People with BPD usually have a concrete personality underneath their various "schemas" and BPD isn't a multiple personality disorder. They are usually unsure of who they are. But that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a true personality. I just think they have trouble knowing what that person is. I don't know though because I don't have BPD. I'm just going based on my own experience.
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Hmm.. yes but why would it be relevant to them, or what would they be able to use knowing their type for if a) their disorder being there would render their evaluation flawed/inaccurate (are the tests designed to accommodate people with differences like these?), and b) their disorder would be constantly overriding their "core" personality anyway?
 
niffer said:
Hmm.. yes but why would it be relevant to them, or what would they be able to use knowing their type for if a) their disorder being there would render their evaluation flawed/inaccurate (are the tests designed to accommodate people with differences like these?), and b) their disorder would be constantly overriding their "core" personality anyway?
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It seems like knowing type would be relevant to people with BPD the same way it's relevant to anyone. It would give them that grounded feeling, like a starting point to figuring yourself out. Much of their internal conflict is caused from not understanding themselves in the first place. From what I saw on the documentary people with this disorder have to learn how to communicate with others. They have to develop the language necessary to communicate and prevent bottled up emotions from overriding their "core" personality. So they seem like normal people to me who are just having trouble relating to others. And they are extremely sensitive so they create all these defense mechanisms. It's not like they are psychotic or schizophrenic or anything.

I can see how they would mistype themselves though. In that case learning about MBTI before understanding their BPD could cause the person to just not understand themselves that much worse.
 
chulo said:
I know they aren't the same but I just thought it was interesting that they seem related. I wonder if people with BPD cut people out of their lives because subconsciously they want closure the same way a judger does. Keeping someone in their life after they did something they perceive as evil would be like leaving a loose end in their life that could cause problems later. So they start "splitting". It seems like it could be driven by a desire to have closure in the mind. I don't know though, I'm just making assumptions based on what I'm most familiar with.

Most people experience dissociation at some point in life even if they don't have a disorder, I feel I've experienced it at certain times. For me it feels very Ni. That was my experience but that is also my preference. So perhaps I'm just assuming my experience is universal and that's why I compared it to Ni. I wonder what it feels like when other people experience it. Or if what I have experienced is true dissociation.
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I've cut people out of my life but I can't say that I've ever split someone as an adult. I've been able to look at most people and not hate them for something minor. That's something that a child does (or someone with a personality disorder). They split as adults because they were traumatized when they were using those defense mechanisms as a kid. I don't think it's about closure, it's more about still kinda being a child inside. It's like a grown toddler but more dangerous (or could be) I have dissociated before, but it's not something that happens on a regular basis and the type we are talking about here is where you go somewhere and you don't know where you went. You're just gone. That's what happens with those with BPD...they don't remember their rages. I'm sure what you felt was dissociation but not on the brink of psychosis. Borderlines are on the borderline of psychosis. They could slip into psychosis with any minor trigger. Most of them can't function in a career, a high-functioning one might be able to have a long term relationship or two with some serious therapy but like I said, one is a nice ballgame the other is a terrible scary storm.

I could see some INFJs with PTS show some borderline traits but not the full blown personality disorder.
 
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chulo said:
I know they aren't the same but I just thought it was interesting that they seem related. I wonder if people with BPD cut people out of their lives because subconsciously they want closure the same way a judger does. Keeping someone in their life after they did something they perceive as evil would be like leaving a loose end in their life that could cause problems later. So they start "splitting". It seems like it could be driven by a desire to have closure in the mind. I don't know though, I'm just making assumptions based on what I'm most familiar with.
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I think they cut people out as an attempt to control their fear of abandonment. Many people with BPD feel as though they are "defective" and "broken" beyond repair, so much so that no one could ever truly love them and they will always be abandoned and alone in the end. So they have to reject and leave people first before those people have the chance to abandon them.
 
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