I wonder...

[just me]

I wonder how many times a misunderstood infj can live with getting their feelings hurt for lack of being open and honest enough to truthfully explain the entire content of one's own train of thought regarding helping others in the grand scheme of things, and putting that first?

Anyone out there like that? I wonder...

 

[Majesty]

Until they decide it's time to think about them too and to open up?
Not really sure what you're asking.

 

[Saru Inc]

Has more to do with a sense of self awareness and maturity, then four letters placed on a plaque on the mbti wall.

 

[youhemmein]

I think I might understand what you're asking.

The problem about being honest and open about what's really going on is that it causes an already vulnerable person to be more vulnerable. It's easy to just say "I think we should..." or "I don't want to..." without saying why, but it isn't often received well. Sharing one's intentions, "I don't want to go in that store because I feel bad for going in when they are about to close," instead of "I don't know why I don't want to go in, could we just go to another store," or "I don't think we should go to that party, because they didn't invite so-and-so, and I think it would hurt them if they knew I went and didn't tell them," as opposed to "I don't want to go, just don't think it would be much fun," more or less leaves the emotional vulnerability on the one trying to do the protecting. That person more than likely is already extremely sensitive. This kind of stuff happens in my life all the time, and sometimes it's not worth even sharing my intentions, because anything I would say would be written off as oversensitivity. Sometimes it's easier just to keep quiet and let someone think I'm being difficult.

Maybe I am completely misunderstanding what you mean, though.

 

[Kgal]

I'm tracking right along with what [MENTION=1857]youhemmein[/MENTION] said. When you say the full extent of what's roiling around in your mind to explain why you want to do something, I think the other person first has to understand what you're saying, then agree to it. I think most cannot grasp what an INFJ is going through, hence they freeze up first, then get defensive. It goes south pretty quickly from there...
Also, I'd say about 30 times....hwell:

I was thinking about you today while driving the hour down to see my counselor. I'd say you have reached # 31.
Time to take a step back and take a real long look at things?

I wish you some peace of mind as a rest from hurt feelings.

 

[bickelz]

Your sentence is slightly confusing but what i think you are getting at is whether or not we feel vulnerable actually explaining how we INFJ's come to a conclusion about a subject or feel a certain way such that it leads us to a weird lifestyle. I know that Ni leads me to some instantaneous conclusions sometimes that i can't really articulate in a logical fashion. This sometimes makes me a little vulnerable because my xSTx friends willbe quick to point out that i am not coming to a conclusion based on logic. They sometimes go too far and it makes me feel a little under appreciated at times. In these situations I become vulnerable because of my lack of logical articulation so I can't just come out and say "You guys are stupid. I know I'm right because I live inside Ni while you guys float around in Se all day."

I wish i could be more open about where my thoughts come from but I guess I need a place that makes it okay to be vulnerable, such as a relationship.

 

[just me]

You all are on the chase, but narrow the subject down to "helping others and putting that first".

I guess words alone cannot explain something a person has lived and continues to live. The infj plaque on the wall sounds good, but we cannot be the only ones. "Say it ain't so!"

K-Gal, think I'm far beyond the thirties in this. Should have possibly revamped my situation at thirty-one.

 

[Kgal]

You all are on the chase, but narrow the subject down to "helping others and putting that first".

I guess words alone cannot explain something a person has lived and continues to live. The infj plaque on the wall sounds good, but we cannot be the only ones. "Say it ain't so!"

K-Gal, think I'm far beyond the thirties in this. Should have possibly revamped my situation at thirty-one.

Ah...sorry to hear that Just Me.

I wonder how many times a misunderstood infj can live with getting their feelings hurt for lack of being open and honest enough to truthfully explain the entire content of one's own train of thought

How many times can you get your feelings hurt because you didn't tell it "how it is" with you? Is that what you're asking? If so, then I'd say based upon my life it's about as many days as I have existed. So that would be 54x360=19,440 times.

regarding helping others in the grand scheme of things,

and putting it first

This sounds so very much like Compassion to me and I just love it. I wish there were a million duplicates of you!

Anyone out there like that? I wonder...

Now this statement is the confusing part. Please elaborate.

 

[lola]

I wonder...
I wonder how many times a misunderstood infj can live with getting their feelings hurt for lack of being open and honest enough to truthfully explain the entire content of one's own train of thought regarding helping others in the grand scheme of things, and putting that first?

Anyone out there like that? I wonder...
-------------------------

I hear ya loud and clear! lol.

I think for some INFJ's problem exists mostly because of fear, fear of being hurt - it's that I'm dieing to help you and it's so clear in my head but I can't quite get it all out because i'm feeling so much for you and for me right now!'. It's the I want to help you...but I have to open up that big black can of worms that are my feelings in order to get my message across. Ironically, we end up getting hurt anyway ... if only we were brave enough to voice how we really felt...maybe that would help us! Even now i'm having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say! A good ENTP friend said to me about us INFJS that, we often put things in so many parentheses, equivocations that we put an octopus to shame!

 

[lola]

Sometimes I think we would be better off as mimes.... lol

 

[CorLeonis]

Hmm... I kinda see two questions?

It really depends on the persons' resilience, and their desire TO communicate. (As per the "how many times" can I do this....")

As someone that does not communicate well (trying to work on this)... I see the basics. Having so many thoughts or feelings that may be beneficial to others, but being unsure or fearful of communicating these ideas? I tend to do a lot of that. I've found that writing helps me immensely. I can type random sentences out, and go back and edit and delete and make it something that does make sense to others, because most of my thoughts do not make sense if they just come out in the order they pop into my head. And the more I write about something, the clearer my thoughts become, and then I can speak about them more clearly.


I do think communicating, and caring for others is slightly different (though often they overlap). If we are constantly helping others and putting them first, we neglect ourselves. I think that's a pretty common trait of INFJs-- and the only way to protect yourself from being used up is to make sure that you are listening to yourself. And, it's a process, but it is extremely important to be selfish sometimes, and to try and recognize, however hard it may be, that someone is sucking us dry, whether emotionally, financially, or otherwise.

 

[just me]

poor example, but running out of time

wife "What would you rather have: coffee or tea?"

me "It really doesn't matter."

wife, most likely tired of infj answers "Just tell me what you want."

me "Whatever is the most convenient for you."

wife "Just answer the *#*! question!"

Poor example, but a starting point anyway. Yes, it is out of pure compassion. What I should have said maybe?
me "If you already have one of the two made, I'll take that. If you are going to make what you want, I will take that. If both are already made and you have one more convenient to get to, I'll take that. Please don't make something special for me: I'll drink water or a coke. I can get it myself if you like(wrong thing to say, but alright to consider).

wife "I've had enough of this!"

me, torn from being again misunderstood for lack of speaking the entire truth? Feelings hurt. What did I do?

More later closer to my point, but you get my idea maybe. This is not about the wife, btw, but this has happened with simple kind thoughts getting my feelings hurt.

 

[Kgal]

Ohhh....now I get it. :doh:

This happens with your coworkers, friends, family, church members, etc - right?

 

[uuu]

That's a great analogy. I can totally relate to the fear of making absolute, binding decisions. I'd much prefer to allow them to figure out what's easier. This is problematic when dealing with similar types of people.

 

[aerosol]

Until they decide it's time to think about them too and to open up?
Not really sure what you're asking.

Totally off topic, but you posted a picture of yourself a while ago where you look very much like the President. Everytime I see a post from you I think of that, haha. Do people generally point out a resemblance or do you only look like him in that picture?

 

[Galileo]

I am generally a pretty open and honest person, but I am careful how I use my honesty, because, I really don't like upsetting people, well most people, there are some people who do get on my nerves big time, and sometimes I can be known to go off my head at them.

However I'll always try to find a way to convey something to someone nicely, and it really does upset me when my friends don't try to do the same.

Though I find because of this behaviour that I am not surrounded by a massive circle of friends to go out with and so on, but the friends I do have are true. it doesn't stop me from wishing I was the sort of person who could deal with shallowness just once in a while and have a bit of fun.

 

[just me]

Though I find because of this behaviour that I am not surrounded by a massive circle of friends to go out with and so on, but the friends I do have are true. it doesn't stop me from wishing I was the sort of person who could deal with shallowness just once in a while and have a bit of fun.

I am thankful for who I am and the way I am; wouldn't want to change for the world, unless it were in danger, of course. My life is interesting and seldom boring; my mind, a playground for endless thoughts. My heart is as gold as I can make it with the help from above and others that walk in light. I trust you would not want to change, either.

A friend asked me, "How's life?" Guess that could start the answer. My life is rewarding, but people take advantage of my kindness to such an extent I sometimes think of them as selfish or simply disliking me. I immediately challenge those thoughts as not becoming, sinking back to my somewhat dismal way of life I feel few understand. Is it really dismal? No. Am I really sinking? No. I simply love helping others, but somewhat detest others that run people down only to try and make themselves look better to unsuspecting onlookers. When they personally attack a loved one with their kindergarden words and first grade thoughts, they see a little bit more of my serious side few care to see. I do not seek revenge, but do allow them to wallow in the mud they have made. I would help them out of the mud, but they must bend to such a lowly status to themselves as asking forgiveness and admitting wrongdoing; something I see as a good quality in a person. Others may see it as a weakness. I feel they are wrong. Forgive them? Of course, but I can still detest the act of wrongdoing or naysaying as I go.

People are people and subject to human frailties. I must now stand up for the one that has been attacked. There can still be time for fun and time for enjoyment, but the time spent enjoying oneself is such more quality time with a clear consciousness about.

Something I have learned: The reasons people can't help with a specific situation,
seem to be the very things I cannot do for myself because of the very same specific situation. I speak of priorities in a round-about way and hope someone out there can understand without all the details.

I think it is simply easier to speak what one feels others can accept more readily.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I wonder how many times a misunderstood infj can live with getting their feelings hurt for lack of being open and honest enough to truthfully explain the entire content of one's own train of thought regarding helping others in the grand scheme of things, and putting that first?

Anyone out there like that? I wonder...

Most people will not understand one's entire train of thought, no matter how clearly put. People generally reject what the CANNOT understand. If you want to help people, sometimes it is better if they don't realise they are being helped.

If doctors told cancer patients that they were intending to systematically poison them just up to the very brink of death in the hope that the cancer cells would die off ahead of the rest of their cells - do you think chemotherapy would be accepted by anyone outside the most desperate?

If one, as an INFJ wants understanding, seek it. If you want to help others, seek that.. but don't try to seek both at the same time in respect of the same thing - it's a receipe for frustration. (Says cyinical old me).

 

[aerosol]

poor example, but running out of time

wife "What would you rather have: coffee or tea?"

me "It really doesn't matter."

wife, most likely tired of infj answers "Just tell me what you want."

me "Whatever is the most convenient for you."

wife "Just answer the *#*! question!"

Poor example, but a starting point anyway. Yes, it is out of pure compassion. What I should have said maybe?
me "If you already have one of the two made, I'll take that. If you are going to make what you want, I will take that. If both are already made and you have one more convenient to get to, I'll take that. Please don't make something special for me: I'll drink water or a coke. I can get it myself if you like(wrong thing to say, but alright to consider).

wife "I've had enough of this!"

me, torn from being again misunderstood for lack of speaking the entire truth? Feelings hurt. What did I do?

More later closer to my point, but you get my idea maybe. This is not about the wife, btw, but this has happened with simple kind thoughts getting my feelings hurt.

Don't have much to say other than that I am the exact same. I'd hate the idea of someone making a fuss just for me. "Whatever is most convenient for you" is my standard answer. It's out of compassion, but it's also a way for me to avoid making a decision.

I get the "just frickin tell me what you want already!!" frustration directed at me as well. It can hurt sometimes, because the reason I'm so ambivalent a lot of the time is because I care about the other person and I don't want them to do more than they have to. I'll ask questions like "what's easier? what's closest to you? which one do you prefer to get me?".

It's probably better to just make a choice.