[INFJ] I have tentatively decided...

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

I found that it's difficult to convince an INTP that an action is "wrong" when my argument is based on social construct and/or feelings especially when INTP in subject has already carefully constructed a rationalization in defense of his/her behalf. But it's important to note that how others "feel" and what others "see" is actually in reality out of the INTP rational control and it will have an impact (to the world, to the other half, and to the INTP) regardless of it being a matter not really worth giving a fck about from an INTP point of view. I think of it as characterization and the inevitable loophole of cause, effect, and consequence. In the end, I understand the INTP defense but I also always understand the opinion/feelings of others on the matter. The good thing about INTPs is they let it go the minute they're convinced it's not worthy of discussion and i'd take that if only to diplomatically maintain harmony in my environment.

No one is INTP until they've been knighted by me

 

[Reverist]

I recently met one and conversations have been so interesting but i'm still working around the acts of service aspect because TPs tend to ask for service whereas TJs just provide service. It's new territory to me.

They see their radical honesty is an act of service.

 

[Reverist]

Interesting. Maybe it isn't type dependent? Could be more of a love languages thing (regardless of whether actual "love" is involved in the interaction).

I agree, it could be more related to the love language thing. I think my INTP husband provides acts of service without thinking about. I'm not sure if it's how he receives love but I think it is how he gives/shows love - by doing for others without expectation. I know Quality Time is an important one for him, too. It seems to have more to do with how he chooses to spend his time. If it's worthy to him, he'll invest time there. Over time, it's changed the way I feel I receive love from him. Typically, I prefer Quality Time and Words of Affirmation, but he's not naturally vocal or expressive of emotions, and I notice more how he does things for me or goes out of his way regularly to help family & friends.

INTPs are great! Intelligent, hilarious, fiercely loyal, and can be deeply caring.

 

[Ginny]

Interesting. Maybe it isn't type dependent? Could be more of a love languages thing (regardless of whether actual "love" is involved in the interaction).

Growing up I had a parent who performed a lot of "acts of service" but always on the expectation/condition that there would be a return for the bargain. That may be why I prefer to do most things myself. I do have my moments where I like serving others, though.

I had a parent like that too, and very uncomfortably so, expecting things in return when he did things for me or if he got me a gift.

It has left me wary of it in other people, preferring quality time and words of affirmation. It would take me a serious amount of trust in a person to ask someone for something.

Edit: I guess that it's also the reason I don't say thank you as much as I should. But I'm working on it.

 

[mintoots]

I think my INTP husband provides acts of service without thinking about.

You have an INTP husband. I checked your profile on mobile but couldn't find your mbti, is it okay if I assume you're INFJ?

The providing acts of service to me is pretty familiar because it is my top language too, though a now—extinct painful relationship has made me severely wary of doing it too much to just anyone anymore because it made me feel so resentful. Plus INTJs in my life always warn me about caring too much and giving too much so it makes me really anxious whenever I'm eager to do it as though it's foretelling some sort of doom. So at first it was disconcerting when this newfound INTP actively asks for it and I doubted it as some sort of powerplay or something... i wonder if it's safe to assume that it's harmless? I've decided to think of it as harmless but all the raised eyebrows from common friends whenever I do provide it makes me feel like it's not. Or am I over exerting my Ni function?

 

[mintoots]

Do INTPs engage in powerplay? If so, why and for what reasons?

 

[Reverist]

You have an INTP husband. I checked your profile on mobile but couldn't find your mbti, is it okay if I assume you're INFJ?

Yes, I am INFJ.

The providing acts of service to me is pretty familiar because it is my top language too, though a now—extinct painful relationship has made me severely wary of doing it too much to just anyone anymore because it made me feel so resentful. Plus INTJs in my life always warn me about caring too much and giving too much so it makes me really anxious whenever I'm eager to do it as though it's foretelling some sort of doom. So at first it was disconcerting when this newfound INTP actively asks for it and I doubted it as some sort of powerplay or something... i wonder if it's safe to assume that it's harmless? I've decided to think of it as harmless but all the raised eyebrows from common friends whenever I do provide it makes me feel like it's not. Or am I over exerting my Ni function?

I am sorry you are feeling this way. It must be painful and confusing to doubt your natural way expressing affection and for it to be a source of anxiety rather than joy. It's good advice to not give too much, especially if it totally wrecks you or leaves you feeling used. I'd be wary too if someone continually asked me to do things for them, especially if they don't return the favor, or aren't willing to show affection in the way I need. I've often heard that for INFJ's it is important to set healthy boundaries. Maybe setting boundaries around this could help you to heal and feel more empowered about expressing love in this way?

 

[mintoots]

Maybe setting boundaries around this could help you to heal and feel more empowered about expressing love in this way?

Wow, thank you for your concern. I think I'm so used to the usual toughen-it-up INTJ advice that genuinely emphatic INFJ advice actually surprises me. I don't know if the repression is causing pain, but it is confusing. I mean internally, I'm ready to just be there for others but outwardly I'm trying my best not to make it seem like I care too much. Ultimately this translates to: oh we talked about this topic and that, I found an interesting article online about it, I want to share this, but then wait, isn't that too clingy? So I end up not doing it even though I originally wanted to. Or, we talk about going on this trip but I pretend not to be interested even though I've really already thought about when it should be scheduled and what-not. I think it has gotten so bad that at one point, when I did actually express myself, I was told I that I'm probably only just playing with others and that had me spiraling straight back to uncaring. HAHA. I don't know that this causes pain, I just usually laugh it off. The thing is I want to care, but vulnerability seems too expensive sometimes. I'm trying to test the boundaries and the limits, but ultimately I get to overthinking over-drive and I feel like my timing is always off so it never gets better... and I wonder whether I have a problem I should solve or if I should just let this go. Healthy INFJs do know how to truly let people in, right? Or is this a self-esteem issue with no relevance at all to MBTI. Oh well, much thanks to this forum for the indulgence. The anonymity helps a lot.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

I agree, it could be more related to the love language thing. I think my INTP husband provides acts of service without thinking about. I'm not sure if it's how he receives love but I think it is how he gives/shows love - by doing for others without expectation. I know Quality Time is an important one for him, too. It seems to have more to do with how he chooses to spend his time. If it's worthy to him, he'll invest time there. Over time, it's changed the way I feel I receive love from him. Typically, I prefer Quality Time and Words of Affirmation, but he's not naturally vocal or expressive of emotions, and I notice more how he does things for me or goes out of his way regularly to help family & friends.

INTPs are great! Intelligent, hilarious, fiercely loyal, and can be deeply caring.

YUP

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

Do INTPs engage in powerplay? If so, why and for what reasons?

IDK about other INTPs, but I can't be bothered with games. I remove myself from people who aren't direct. I tend to think INTPs would like to exert as little energy as possible in bullshit.

 

[Wyote]

I can't be bothered with games.

I have tentatively decided you're a liar

 

[Reason]

INTPs would like to exert as little energy as possible in bullshit.

Truth.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

I have tentatively decided you're a liar

 

[Wyote]

 

[Lurk]

...that INFJs are one of the most tolerable personality types I have encountered thus far. This isn't just sycophancy; I've literally had nothing but fantastic interactions with the two INFJs in my life, and the people on this forum seem pretty cool.

Fe is actually an amazing tool that I hope to get better at developing. My experience with Fi-ers, on the other hand, has been a little rough.

In contrast:

• INFP - They are their own trainwrecks. Dominant Fi is messy stuff.
• ENTJ - Extremely argumentative, but their arguments rely on inductive reasoning and can go as far as not believing in the merits of deductive reasoning at all. I've also been a victim of an ENTJ's inferior Fi grip.
• INTP - I'm an INTP and I'll be the first to admit that we can suck. I have a couple very good INTP friends and it can be a struggle. Over time, Dominant Ti can cause someone to build up an extremely messed-up logical framework and defend it to no end (I've met INTPs that have defended anti-semitism or white supremacy on a high throne of narcissistic "logic"). An INTP's confidence in his own deviant inner reality is a rather vexing force to reckon with.
• ESxx - From a different universe in which people like me are not welcome.

Good work, guys. Keep up the existing.

Dead on. You basically expressed my opinions.

P.S. I also have had very good experiences with INTJs.

.


.

 

[Pin]

 

[Pin]

I like the INTJs I know. For some reason, they think everything I say is ridiculously funny, even when I'm being serious... like I'm a strange curiosity to them.

I think ENTJs are terrible, generally, though...

INTPs are way better than INTJs.

And since @noisebloom argued that INTJs are better than ENTJs, we may conclude the syllogism by:

INTPs are way better than ENTJs.

Wow! You're all wrong.

 

[Happy Phantom]

Wow! You're all wrong.

You’re a gd liar. lolz jk. Or am I?

 

[noisebloom]

Wow! You're all wrong.

Your response confirms my assumptions...

 

[Pin]

Your response confirms my assumptions...

But what I said is true, ENTJs are not terrible. Without us, nothing impressive would be done. Sure, things would be done. However, all of the impressive stuff would be left to the ESTPs, that means they would be done half-assed.