How valid is the MBTI? | INFJ Forum

How valid is the MBTI?

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Nemo, Jul 16, 2009.

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  1. Nemo

    Nemo Community Member

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    So I got into a discussion on MBTI recently and someone gave me a list of reasons for why MBTI is a pseudo-science. I was wondering what people here (who know a lot more about MBTI than I do) think of these reasons.

    So what do you think? Is he right or am I missing something?
     
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  2. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Pretty much right I reckon.
     
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  3. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    The scientific method is not perfect for everything.

    I find MBTI to be accurate in almost every case.

    Everything in this world doesn't have to be calculated, tested, and quanitified to be used and truthful.
     
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  4. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Oh wow. Out of any possible reasons your friend could have given, your friend chose to make himself look like a retard.
     
  5. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    As for not being certified psychologists, the wright brothers were not ICAO certified pilots.
     
  6. OP
    Nemo

    Nemo Community Member

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    Why do you say that?
     
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  7. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Because they're incredibly retarded reasons.

    Intelligent reasons would attack the system itself, rather than the people who created or administer it.
     
  8. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    Well honestly the person just invalided their argument by use of fallacious logic. For example, insulting a person(s) and not dealing with the argument is ad hominem. And the argument is a pretty good example of a straw man as well. Or using a weaker version of your opponent's argument and knocking it down.

    Becasue anyone who studied psychology, actually knows Freud wasn't crazy. I would argue neither were Jung, or Briggs.

    Your friend seems to be a person who doesn't take physiology seriously and thats fine. No matter how wrong his opinion may be. But this person's thoughts on the subjects do not invalidate Myers Brigg, or psychology from the realm of science.

    In other words your friends argument isn't sound and there for is not able to prove anything he is arguing.

    For once we agree Shai.
     
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    #8 Blind Bandit, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
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  9. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Whenever I'm serious people always make that statement or a derivative of it.
    People agree with me when I'm serious, because I'm always right.
     
  10. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    Oh wait I don't agree with you anymore. :m133:
     
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  11. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Well, to start with, your friend is kinda dumb.

    But in their defense, the MBTI is a very inaccurate psuedo-science. It is a self assessment test, that is poorly designed and prone to mistyping for a multitude of reasons. It is so common that the MBTI mistypes, that there are people who's sole profession is to help people figure out what their actual type is. For me personally, the MBTI has typed me as ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, and INFJ. It took me a lot of research and effort to realize I was not the type I initially assumed I was, but was in fact one of these INFJ wierdoes, hehe. But, boy howdy, am I ever an unmistakable posterboy of an INFJ.

    The MBTI was created by two people with no formal training in psychology, and is an attempt to Indicate (as in get someone into the ballpark) the personality types proposed by the work of Karl Jung, which is astonishingly accurate once proper tools are applied. Just because the most common tool is flawed, does not mean that the theories and principles behind it are.

    One of the most common themes for threads on this forum are people trying to determine their actual MBTI type, because the test got them in the ballpark, and now they're trying to decide which it is.

    I would strongly suggest that you encourage your friend to do the research to try to determine their own type. At worst, they'll do some self discovery. At best, they'll become an MBTI expert. Clearly, they're a T type of some sort, based on the "Are you an idiot" pretext. (Heh, as an F type, I would have chosen emotional over rational.) Based on their empirical approach to the MBTI, I'd assume they were an S type. They're also quite judgmental, which would point toward a J type. So from there, you've only got to decide if they're an ISTJ, ESTJ.
     
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    #11 VH, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
  12. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    MBTI might be flawed based on how they partner types (by their primary functions, ISTP with INTP because of Introverted Thinking). However it was improved by Keirsey and Bates with the creation of the KBTS or KTS, which linked them by their thinking types (Ne + Ti, INTP and ENTP).

    Keirsey IS a trained psychologist. However one doesn't have to have a degree in something to master it. Wilbur and Orville Wright did not have any ICAO Pilot Qualifications, yet they are acknowledged pilots. I've got Pilot friends who have ICAO Qualifications that will not dispute Wilbur or Orville's right to call themselves Pilots. Hell, Orville was a High School drop-out.

    It's just envy on their part that two individuals didn't spend shitloads of money on a piece of paper and yet created a valid psychological instrument.
     
  13. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    I'll never invalidate results. The question was whether or not the MBTI is pseudo science, and it is. That doesn't mean that it isn't valid. It's just not up to snuff with the prim and proper scientific method and process. Clearly, this stuff works, and most importantly, it can't be forced into a scientific model because the variables are too abstract to define.
     
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  14. Julia

    Julia Community Member

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    Nowack, K. (1997). Personality Inventories: The Next Generation. Performance in Practice, American Society of Training and Development, Winter 1996/97

     
  15. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    I dunno, I feel like there aren't enough axes to be accurate.

    Figure out the human brain, create a test with 3 billion axes, then come back to me. I'm sure that would be much more accurate.
     
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  16. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    It's difficult, because I'm of two minds. First, I think we should never discount someone or someone's type because they believe they are X-type. If we all "think" they're ISFJ but they claim to be INFJ, it's not up to us to "set them straight." It's up to the individual to figure it out, and up to us to help them be the best person they're supposed to be.

    On the other hand - knowing yourself is one of the greatest gifts you can have. And knowing that you can communicate with others who share your gifts, talents, and ideas is a wonderful experience. Knowing you're "not the only one" who feels the way you do is a relief in this day and age. You have to categorize yourself to "fit" with a group, and in some cases the MBTI can help you understand yourself by understanding others. It's good to know yourself, and it's good to know others so you can communicate with them on a new level.

    I believe the MBTI is real, but it might not be as cut and dry as we make it out to be. I like Von Hase's take on it, that our cognitive processes can make a difference even within our MBTI make-up. We're individuals first, but we also need to communicate with others. It's part of who we are.
     
  17. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    I used to have faith in psychology before I discovered neurology.
     
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