How is Obamacare Working Out for You?

[sprinkles]

Centralized control gets abused over and over again. People watch their B.S. on TV to bury their heads in the sand and then complain. It's silly/sad. The legislatures do nothing, and if people protest they still do nothing, and then get beat up wtih batons, shot at with rubber bullets (or real ones), get thrown in prison with all the fun that goes along with it.

People get thrown in prison for trying to bring aid in the form of drugs etc to the poor. Energy like cold fusion gets supressed, which could be used to desalinate water and grow food. But, unless they make hundreds of millions nobody but them can have it. Really? Is having that much money really that important?

Guess who has all the money now, despite people wanting to work for it, and then don't let it trickle down? It's just disgusting, and it's almost as disgusting to just let it happen.

The beast gets too big to put down. What a lot of people fail to realize is that transition is going to hurt.

Prime example is problems with solar power in California. More and more people are switching to solar and the power companies are having issues because homes that are hybrid, run solar in the day and are on the grid at night, still use the grid but these homes upload power to the grid which the company has to pay the home owner for. This doesn't work out in the end because the power grid costs money to maintain but the company is actually paying solar users to stress the power grid by generating power on it - they're having to buy power that they didn't ask for over their own lines that they also have to pay to upkeep.

The solar situation for utility companies right now is like having somebody move onto your property without you asking them and you have to pay for them to live there and also pay for the wear they create on your property. It's not going to work out without additional, less short sighted changes.

 

[muir]

@muir

Yeah fine. I can't be angry, it makes me become physically ill and that doesn't help anyone. Thanks anyway though.

I'm not saying people should rile themselves up needlessly i'm saying they should be aware of who is doing what so that come a time in the future where there is no option but anger they will know how to channel it to best effect

Keeping a perpetually keyed up state is not healthy, but i think at least some righteous indignation at some of the stuff these guys are doing is in fact healthy as it is the human response to inhumane acts

Imo a lot of societies bad health usually comes from cognitive dissonance

Its when people are suppressing and repressing things. Its when what they are told by the authorities does not match what their inner voice is telling them...it creates a tension

I think when people to try to bury that tension it then manifests as physical and mental ill health. Conscious awareness is far more healthy imo

 

[muir]

When that statement was being bandied about, reporters and pundits where questioning its validity and supporters of the Affordable Care Act were stating that a) new minimum coverage requirements would nullify many policies and b) the health insurance market was rapidly changing so no one was guaranteed that their insurance was not going to change.

Most of the people who are being shoved into higher cost insurance were making well over 50 k a year and not insured to a responsible level. I could have taken an easier job years ago and carried minimal insurance and just hoped for the best for My wife and kids but truly felt being fully covered was worth the effort.

I'm not sure what you're saying here stu; could you please clarify?

 

[Stu]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION], you probably didn't follow the debate prior to the affordable care act being passed by both houses of the us congress and signed by the president, but during that debate it was made clear that an entire class of private insurance policies would no longer be available. (I believe there were several red flag operations occurring at the time that distracted you.)

 

[muir]

Centralized control gets abused over and over again. People watch their B.S. on TV to bury their heads in the sand and then complain. It's silly/sad. The legislatures do nothing, and if people protest they still do nothing, and then get beat up wtih batons, shot at with rubber bullets (or real ones), get thrown in prison with all the fun that goes along with it.

People get thrown in prison for trying to bring aid in the form of drugs etc to the poor. Energy like cold fusion gets supressed, which could be used to desalinate water and grow food. But, unless they make hundreds of millions nobody but them can have it. Really? Is having that much money really that important?

Guess who has all the money now, despite people wanting to work for it, and then don't let it trickle down? It's just disgusting, and it's almost as disgusting to just let it happen.

People are waking up...its just going to be a frustrating period while we wait for the mass of people to cotton on before we see a real push back....not just a little isolated rioting or protesting but a mass nation wide protest that then spreads globally

The bury the head in the sand approach is totally redundant as it just gives the cabal even more leeway to exploit the public...at some point the kicked beast kicks back

The authorities know its coming which is why they are ramping up security, surveillance and beefing up the police and why they have changed the law to make US soil into the battlefield (the NDAA) and why they've been buying up all the bullets and why they're flying drones in US skies...they know its coming

It should be clear to anyone who doesn't have their head in their ass that we the people are the enemy

Does anyone really believe that this very same group of people are bringing us obamacare becuase they care about us?

 

[muir]

@muir , you probably didn't follow the debate prior to the affordable care act being passed by both houses of the us congress and signed by the president, but during that debate it was made clear that an entire class of private insurance policies would no longer be available. (I believe there were several red flag operations occurring at the time that distracted you.)

Still not sure what you're saying here Stu...can you spell it out for me?

My current perspective is that i posted a clip of Obama saying people would be able to keep their policies if they were happy with them but now it transpires they can't so he lied.....is that incorrect?

 

[Stu]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]. obviously you are right. I don't know what came over me.
this is stu, exiting this thread

 

[muir]

@muir . obviously you are right. I don't know what came over me.
this is stu, exiting this thread

Wait..i'm serious man....if what i posted was incorrect i want to know!

I want to understand the situation better....so did obama lie or didn't he? Or is it more nuanced than that?

You clearly have something to say and i'd quite like to hear it if you're still happy to put your point across

 

[Nixie]

I think his point was that this thread is supposed to be about Obamacare and you've highjacked it again with your conspiracy theory posts.

 

[Nixie]

I think the sheer size of an endeavor to create mandated health care is a task that will take years to sort out. I think that there were things missed in the initial legislation and special interest groups made inroads in diluting the effort for socialized medicine. I think that as long as we quibble about the process, we allow such things to continue. If we want to make sure that affordable health care is built in the US, we have to be willing to unite behind the idea that it is possible to create an effective, cost friendly system.

 

[muir]

The beast gets too big to put down. What a lot of people fail to realize is that transition is going to hurt.

Prime example is problems with solar power in California. More and more people are switching to solar and the power companies are having issues because homes that are hybrid, run solar in the day and are on the grid at night, still use the grid but these homes upload power to the grid which the company has to pay the home owner for. This doesn't work out in the end because the power grid costs money to maintain but the company is actually paying solar users to stress the power grid by generating power on it - they're having to buy power that they didn't ask for over their own lines that they also have to pay to upkeep.

The solar situation for utility companies right now is like having somebody move onto your property without you asking them and you have to pay for them to live there and also pay for the wear they create on your property. It's not going to work out without additional, less short sighted changes.

I love the idea of solar and i hope the costs of panels come down. We are seeing them hit the mainstream more for example IKEA is now selling them

Concerning solar power in california you might find what this guy says to be interesting as he built a home there that was fully solar powered. He gets announced @ about 13:00:

[video=youtube;dEYQKA8EV3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYQKA8EV3c[/video]

I'll say something else controversial here which is not going to go down well with some...but its still the truth....with the vaccinations, chemtrails, food additives and fukishima radiation the publics health is going to suffer in a big way....its a good time to be in health....there will be lots of money to be made

 

[technics]

It costs a lot, and it doesn't pay out.

I think you missed a few points. First, business closing down is a result of the US tradition of tying health insurance to businesses. A better approach would be to unbundle healthcare from employment (either through the government or a separate healthcare market).

Second, as it stands, the private US healthcare market is one of the most inefficient healthcare markets in the world: You have higher healthcare spending, but similar outcomes, compared to other countries' mostly government-controlled healthcare services.

And you could even play arguments such as whether healthcare is a commodity at all. Healthcare services are pretty elastic, meaning you can push the price very high and people would still pay for it.

 

[muir]

I think the sheer size of an endeavor to create mandated health care is a task that will take years to sort out. I think that there were things missed in the initial legislation and special interest groups made inroads in diluting the effort for socialized medicine. I think that as long as we quibble about the process, we allow such things to continue. If we want to make sure that affordable health care is built in the US, we have to be willing to unite behind the idea that it is possible to create an effective, cost friendly system.

I totally believe everyone should get affordable healthcare but i don't trust these guys to administer it

Also i think people should look into why the health of the US is so poor....but to find answers to that you will have to listen to the 'conspiracy theorists' because they are the people who aren't relying on the corporate mainstream media for their information and are able to get to the core of the issue

Also the video i posted that stu commented on was to do with obamacare...it was totally relevant to the thread

 

[CindyLou]

I haven't read the thread, but came here to see if anyone was talking about it.

My premiums have not changed. Nothing has changed in regards to insurance. I have been asked some rather intrusive questions about my sexual history and I've been asked more than three times if I'm a smoker since November. I have lost some privacy in my medical records due to them becoming electronic. I was surprised by a question by my psychiatrist when she knew I had visited my GP the last month for what I thought was a kidney infection that wasn't and somatic symptoms were added to my previous diagnosis of OCD (!! this is alarming to me!!) so now my GP will see I have OCD with somatic symptoms and not take me seriously anymore? I've seen my GP a handful of times this decade outside of prenatal care.

What about women who are seeking abortions? That will go on their electronic medical records now? Every doc they visit will see that now? I miss the old days of paper records and when your medical history didn't follow you around unless you wanted it to. Sigh.

 

[Skarekrow]

I think you missed a few points. First, business closing down is a result of the US tradition of tying health insurance to businesses. A better approach would be to unbundle healthcare from employment (either through the government or a separate healthcare market).

Second, as it stands, the private US healthcare market is one of the most inefficient healthcare markets in the world: You have higher healthcare spending, but similar outcomes, compared to other countries' mostly government-controlled healthcare services.

And you could even play arguments such as whether healthcare is a commodity at all. Healthcare services are pretty elastic, meaning you can push the price very high and people would still pay for it.

We actually spend way more per capita than any other country in the world...as seen below --

And yet...we don’t have the best health system in the world?? WHY??
Because we are being gouged by the insurance racket and have been for years...UGH, it so incredibly frustrating...
(second graph showing our life expectancy ranking in the world)

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

A lot of this is cultural and on the part of citizens as well.

1. A lot of Americans live incredibly unhealthy lifestyles. Corporations are partly responsible for this because they push it, but it's not all their fault. There's some culpability in the citizens as well.
2. Americans don't like to be told what to do. A large portion will decry that they're allowed to kill themselves with hamburgers if they want to - and they're correct, they should be allowed to do that, but the demand also feeds back into the corporations, giving incentive to continue enabling destructive lifestyles. Just because people are allowed to do what they want with their health does not mean we should syndicate it.
3. Many Americans would refuse to pay a dime for anyone else, even though that is what insurance is. Insurance has turned into a form of banking investment though where people are led along by powerful companies and forget their autonomy.

Why can't you start your own insurance fund, with your local neighborhood for example? All insurance is, is pooling your money together collectively to help those who get into trouble. Insurance is meant to be a pro-social money pool to act as a safety net for any of its members. But hardly anyone sees it that way. To a lot of people its just paying some money for their own coverage, and it is like this because healthcare providers will only accept insurance from vetted companies, because they've become like banks in that they're large companies so marked as dependable that you have no choice but to use them.

You need to have that card and account for coverage, even having the money pool isn't enough without the vetted credentials. If you don't have an account number that they can punch into their computers, then you're a nobody.

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

Well for now ObamaCare doesn't affect me too much. I am currently in the military so I am "taken" care of. As for friends of mine some of them are having issues. One in particular had to spend five hours on hold with his health insurance due to the influx of applications. They really didn't prepare for this I can only assume that atleast some insurance companies were hoping it would be shot down and not passed.

 

[Kanamori]

The beast gets too big to put down. What a lot of people fail to realize is that transition is going to hurt.

Prime example is problems with solar power in California. More and more people are switching to solar and the power companies are having issues because homes that are hybrid, run solar in the day and are on the grid at night, still use the grid but these homes upload power to the grid which the company has to pay the home owner for. This doesn't work out in the end because the power grid costs money to maintain but the company is actually paying solar users to stress the power grid by generating power on it - they're having to buy power that they didn't ask for over their own lines that they also have to pay to upkeep.

The solar situation for utility companies right now is like having somebody move onto your property without you asking them and you have to pay for them to live there and also pay for the wear they create on your property. It's not going to work out without additional, less short sighted changes.

Yes, eventually that's going to be even more of a problem with things like cold fusion. They can test and perfect the reactors in the grid setup, and then maybe move on to something like the Tesla energy distro maybe. I can see it as being a sort of public service.

It seems to me that a sort of UBI would help a lot with the transitions. A lot of fiat wealth is going to disappear in its value. It can be done gradually though, I think. There will be plenty of work for all sorts of people to do in the transitions though. Something like a UBI would make all sorts of transitions less painful, and allow for more adaptability. The whole thing is something that I certainly wouldn't consider myself as having all of the answers to.

 

[Skarekrow]

@Skarekrow

A lot of this is cultural and on the part of citizens as well.

1. A lot of Americans live incredibly unhealthy lifestyles. Corporations are partly responsible for this because they push it, but it's not all their fault. There's some culpability in the citizens as well.
2. Americans don't like to be told what to do. A large portion will decry that they're allowed to kill themselves with hamburgers if they want to - and they're correct, they should be allowed to do that, but the demand also feeds back into the corporations, giving incentive to continue enabling destructive lifestyles. Just because people are allowed to do what they want with their health does not mean we should syndicate it.
3. Many Americans would refuse to pay a dime for anyone else, even though that is what insurance is. Insurance has turned into a form of banking investment though where people are led along by powerful companies and forget their autonomy.

Why can't you start your own insurance fund, with your local neighborhood for example? All insurance is, is pooling your money together collectively to help those who get into trouble. Insurance is meant to be a pro-social money pool to act as a safety net for any of its members. But hardly anyone sees it that way. To a lot of people its just paying some money for their own coverage, and it is like this because healthcare providers will only accept insurance from vetted companies, because they've become like banks in that they're large companies so marked as dependable that you have no choice but to use them.

You need to have that card and account for coverage, even having the money pool isn't enough without the vetted credentials. If you don't have an account number that they can punch into their computers, then you're a nobody.

You are right...it is a cultural thing...although, we do not have the worst life expectancy...we are on par with a lot of countries who aren’t exactly near the top. There are some who have higher rates of obesity or smoking, etc... though we have a longer life expectancy than they do we also pay so incredibly much for our health care here.
So yes, we do have a problem culturally...and I agree that things like McDonalds are constantly in our faces...or any number of things...our overly processed food...our overall stress-level in the US is out of control.
People should be able to kill themselves if they want to...at least if they are in their right mind....not if they are on drugs or depressed, etc. But being terminal from whatever disease - go for it I say.
I have to agree with your third point in the most strongest sense!
GREED GREED GREED GREED should be synonymous with America.
Especially when you are talking corporate America.
There are a lot of good people here, just as there are anywhere...but they want to donate or give to charity on their own terms....they don’t want to have a mandate...then all of the sudden you hear things like “I don’t want to give my hard earned money to a bunch of lazy welfare queens!”.
I always find it so funny and out of place that the majority of American identify themselves as “Christian” and yet, wouldn’t give 50 cents to a homeless guy on the street because they have some preconceived notion that they will spend it on drink or drugs...or that they deserve to be on the street because of their drinking or drug use. So what you sick fuck if they decide to spend it on alcohol...you just judged them based on nothing more than their appearance and place...you know nothing of how they got there....why they are still there...what they have to do to survive daily...their family, if they have any, who may love them and worry about them. Instead...they decide they are doing him a disservice by giving him two thin quarters. How very Christ-like.
It’s the same with the author of this thread...he proclaims from the mountain that he is “Christian” and yet...”Idealism costs too much”.
It costs too much to give medical care to those who cannot afford our bloated, over-priced, illness-profietering, system. I’m sure Jesus would feel the same....in fact, I’m sure he would be a Republican and would vote to cut funding for food stamps and education...he would work as they all do to cut as many social safety nets as he could while maintaining the huge bundles of money going to kill people and oppress people in countries we have no business being in. I’m sure he would also have all the homosexuals put to death, or at least in a camp, much less allow two of them that loved each other to marry.
I’m sure he wouldn’t give that bum on the street 50 cents.
That is my opinion on why not just our health care, but most things in this country are fucked up.

 

[CindyLou]

Not to derail the thread but giving money or food to the homeless enables them not to seek services and basically stay homeless. I worked with the homeless for years.