How Fundies are Destroying Marriage

More flame bait? Why do you always post such antagonizing titles then slam us with some serious left wing activist shit? Its getting old dude.

 

I still say that you are focusing on the wrong issue. It's not gay marriage that is the problem; it's the way the government is set up regarding marriage that is the problem.

 

I did read through your post and I find your post fascinating, I'm just wondering what sort of response you would like because what I posted was my initial thoughts on the matter. I mean, really, what you are talking about is marriage and how it is believed that the value of marriage has been decreased, and blamed on gays, right? And then also, you stated that womens' rights have influenced the rate of divorces, which is true. Yeah, it's definitely true. Women having rights enabled them to be able to afford households all by themselves; before they depended completely on men.

I guess, my opinion is split. To a certain extent, anti gay propaganda is wrong- yes. It's obviously very biased as well. I'd like to encourage unity rather than separation. Obviously they still have their right to an opinion but I do see the research you put into this- very well thought out too.

 

I don't think it's a bad thing or a good thing if traditional marriage is failing...
Traditional marriage has been used to reinforce gender roles and domestic violence up until recent decades.. But not in all cases.

So I don't mean to say that all traditional marriages are repressive and oppressive and abusive. They're not.. I would venture to say that a majority of straight men don't expect women to be subject to them, anymore.

Families are where socialization begins for members of a society. If the family as a whole is unhealthy and dysfunctional, then so will society be.

Personally, I don't see how gay marriage poses a threat to the health of society. If children are raised in abusive traditional or gay homes, they're still going to turn out dysfunctional.

Relgious opposition to gay-marriage is based on gender roles. If the man isn't the head of the woman in the household, then he is no longer the head in society. Feminism and gay rights go hand in hand because they both want equal rights for people of different sexes and genders. Religious opposition to gay marriages serves to protect a patriarchal society. I think that's the way they see it, mostly.

 

You may very well be right Satya. The declining marriage rate is a multi-faceted issue. I don't know if the anti-homosexual marriage people are actually making the institution of marriage worse, but they are definitely not helping. They are making marriage worse for homosexuals though (in that homosexuals can't get married).

We live in a society where now, if you want to be in the middle class, you pretty much have to have the wife in the workforce as well (assuming you're a hetero couple) unless the man is a lawyer, doctor, or something else that is really highly paid. I think that is part of the reason those professions are so highly valued now and so many people go for them is that people in general hold many socially conservative attitudes even in places where you wouldn't expect those attitudes.

Obviously, the traditional marriage structure, which is patriarchy and to a large extent patriarchal terrorism, isn't going to last.

 

They know it.
And since it isn't going to last, religious conservatives resort to fear tactics like: society will crumble, God will smite us, and people will be molesting children and engaging in beastiality.

 

On this note, no. I don't think it's at all a bad thing that traditional marriage is failing, although I can see the cons. If less people are getting married, that means more divorced couples, and that means more kids growing up with single parent families. We had a thread about this a long long time ago regarding single parent households, and the overall conclusion I came to was that it is detrimental to society when most households are single parent.

This isn't because children who are raised in a single parent household 'come out wrong'---it's because most of the parents who are single parents are living at poverty level and struggling to get by. Even if they have an education, they have to rely on other services like daycares to take care of their children while they are at work. Single parents can't afford to spend the amount of time at home that they would like to.

On the other hand, we see social changes with the departing from traditional marriage. We see homosexual couples being accepted, we see interracial marriages (which, while it sounds racist, was 'traditionally' unacceptable for a long long time and is still frowned upon on circumstances), we see less arranged marriages and we see less sustained domestic abuse.

Why? Because couples who once 'stayed together' because they had no other choice, women and men who were being abuse mentally and physically by their partners decided not to take it anymore. They know they can get a better life, and divorce is an option. There is a time and place for divorce, and people feel more comfortable using that option now.

Marriage has been devalued, and if Gays get marriage it will not devalue marriage at all- it will progress it, to being more of a social thing than a religious thing. You also have to keep in mind though that not all religions are against gays. Marriage is apparently sacred and holy, yet, we don't treat it that way. What is important about the Gay Marriage rights is not the marriage itself; it is the social conditions attached to it. What is important is that gay couples are seen as valid socially and culturally as the traditional couple is, and I've seen that happen even without laws being passed to allow these couples to marry.

 

Nope, I don't think gay marriage has an impact on marriage besides religious/political conflicts that would follow.

 

I think it has no impact. What impacts traditional marriage is women being self-sufficient and providing for themselves, as was stated in the OP.

 

Billy for god sakes man if you don't like it don't post.

Your driving me nuts.

I also tend to agree. The idea of marriage has been changing for a while now.

And honestly gay marriage is just the scape goat for such changes.

 

Interesting relization, and I agree with pretty much all you said. I am inclined to agree with the second reason to why this is occuring. It is almost ironic, but at the same time this makes sense. It is very often that when people get very fanatical over what they want, or if they become extrodinarly adament and refuse to even concider other sides. They end up screwing everything up and create their own fall unintentionally. This is the case here. That, and culture changes, and you can't stop that.

Marriage should be a simple concept. If you like someone, and want to go to the "final step" you marry them. It allows all the legal binding stuff, and all that jazz, and the word marriage has a "traditional sound" to it that people find appealing, and it makes it feel completely offical. No two people should be denied a marriage lisences just because of who they are.

The only reason why religious groups want to put a lock on marriage, is because religious groups like to hold on to tradition, and understandably so. However, marriage has more governmental purposes then does religious. If a religious group wants to forbid a marriege within their religious, that is fine. However, when they try to overstep outside their religion and control how things "should be", then that is unconstitutional in my opinion.

 

My biggest issue is region doesn't have a hold on the use of marriage.

people were probably marrying in some form before we even made fire.

I don't see what the problem. If a religion doesn't want to marry someone thats fine. They don't have too. No one is making them. But its a persons right to be married and the government shouldn't bend to religious leanings.

Religion needs to but out of everyones live and keep its mouth shut.

Gay marriage shouldn't even be an issue.

An interesting side note. I got a flyer yesterday at the college. I should have told the person where he could put that flyer. Said flyer talked about maintaining the traditional marriage I ripped it up. I'm sick of this vale of ignorance.

/ Rant

 

Yup, that is my opinion exactly.

 

Contracts should not be monopolized by governments.
Marriage, regardless of the participants having mismatched genitals or not, is a voluntary agreement, and shouldn't be regulated.

 

Priests seem to have the molesting children thing covered. Can you say "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

 

Dude, you're kinda scary, you know that? (-:

Without actually reading everyone's posts, (sorry, no time) my main thought is that the decline of traditional marriage is obviously and solely the responsibility of heterosexual couples themselves who are doing a mighty fine job of treating each other badly and destroying their relationships (and/or) marriages (and/or) families without the help of any gay people whatsoever, thankyouverymuch. Any organization which wastes time and money trying to prove otherwise is deluded.

Personal experience -- the "devout" catholics I know who gave me crap about Living in Sin and Being a Slut etc., etc., have all been divorced, in some cases several times, and these women see no problem at all with marrying a man for solely for money, to the point of running background checks on him and his bank accounts, and then dumping him based on that information. Not what I would call a fine role model for any kind of relationship.

If people want to stay together, married or not, they will. If they don't, they won't. Why pretend otherwise?