How do you know you're not blind to so many truths of life?

[sookie]

In the end, truth is not about knowledge (although this may have a small part to play). The secret is.....truth is about connection. Sounds simple, but the connection we are talking about is immensely huge, immensely rich, and all the combined experience of every mystic in every religion that has ever existed has not begun to grasp the scope of this truth. We do get glimpses....and these only reveal to us that the truth affords us the unbelievable dignity of having to make the journey ourselves. In this way it is based on experience, on awareness. This is why the mystics all fall silent at some point. In the end, we seek to posess the truth, but what happens is that the truth (due to it's magnitude) takes hold of us...we are posessed by it's embrace. No complexity found in the natural world, or in the human mind, or in all the galaxies can compete with the rich diversity and nuanced richness found in ultimate truth. When you find it your mind will shut down....silence, peace, and gratitude are all that is left. So there are objective truths, but our assumption is that these truths are limited. They are not. A paradox, eh?

This may not make sense, but I wanted to try to at least open the door to something far more complicated than we might imagine. Finding truth is no cheap thrill-ride...we have to let go of everything to find it, and there is much in the human person that flatly refuses to do this. Why? We fear we will lose. In the end, this fear is totally unfounded inasmuch as the exact opposite happens, although we are greatly transformed. This should not shock us really.....an encounter with truth is no casual stroll in the park.

Many want to find/accept only truth that agrees with them, their position, their ego...we are very much afraid. To find truth we have to ultimately let go completely. And yes, one does find that we are like fish swimming about looking for the ocean, only to find we were in it all along.

A word about dogma and such. Religious systems use dogma and structure primarily to perpetuate a system of ideas for future generations. However, these dogmas....if one scratches beneath the surface...are only pointers to a much, much greater set of truths, the one's described above. It's as if at the heart of dogma is a door...a door too few are willing to pass through. It is a door to total human liberation and enlightenment. Now our assumption is that dogmas are truth...but really they are doors. The funny thing is that dogmas practically state this...we seem to miss that point.

Sorry if I've confused anybody by my throwing words at the subject.

This is wonderful way to put it!!!!

I offer a deep bow to your wisdom.

 

[sookie]

So, in a nutshell, you're trying to say that reality (and therefore the search for truth) is subjective?

I think that reality is indeed subjective.

I wonder if there are some parts of reality that are not subjective, though. I am going to think about this.

For now I need to address the mundane: grocery shopping, cleaning. I will be thinking about this.

This is a fascinating discussion!

 

[randomsomeone]

So, in a nutshell, you're trying to say that reality (and therefore the search for truth) is subjective?

Well, it is and it isn't. The search for truth is personal...but at the same time there is a unity in truth that is not totally subjective. This is why we come to be posessed by truth rather than the other way around. At the same time, this internal unity in truth is enormous enough to far surpass any one perspective while including many.

 

[randomsomeone]

I offer a deep bow to your wisdom.

You are kind, but I'm only reporting what I have seen.....my own personal wisdom is "iffy" at best.

 

[sassafras]

Well, it is and it isn't. The search for truth is personal...but at the same time there is a unity in truth that is not totally subjective. This is why we come to be posessed by truth rather than the other way around. At the same time, this internal unity in truth is enormous enough to far surpass any one perspective while including many.

Yep, I agree. And by the by, you would LOVE Kierkegaard.

 

[randomsomeone]

Yep, I agree. And by the by, you would LOVE Kierkegaard.

Oooooo, thanks....I'll look into this!!!

 

[Naxx]

How does one ever truly know?

Perhaps the closest to truth one may get is being truthful to their heart and soul.

 

[Celsius100]

"What if, on a crowded street, you look up and see something appear that should not, given what we know, be there. What if the person next to you is a warrior and the space that appears empty is a secret door to another world? You can either dismiss it, or you can accept that there is much more to the world than you think. Perhaps it really is a doorway to another place. If you choose to go inside you may find many unexpected things."

- Shigeru Miyamoto (paraphrased, because my memory isn't perfect, heh)

This quote, though condensed, lends towards my own views that I've carried for years. On this matter. It's really hard to understand, I think, without experiencing a situation ourselves, just what is 'correct' of what we think we know. Even then, it's only one take. Out of countless world views, there are so many routes to a situation, and so great a number of possibilities that I don't think we can really understand anywhere even close to a fraction of everything going on. I'm having a really tough time phrasing this though in a way that even makes sense for me when reading through it. :/

Not a morning for words for this one.

 

[randomsomeone]

Perhaps the closest to truth one may get is being truthful to their heart and soul.

I think you are right, but inasmuch as truth is bigger than these, we can grow the capacity of both our heart and our soul. This is how we lose nothing and gain everything while still remaining true to ourselves. In fact, one could make a case that in the search for truth we actually move past our false selves and find our truest self. This is a source of great inner peace.

For me it was about finding glimmers of truth in certain places and the experience of certain people. They were mystics, yes, but lived in a very real world in different times and places. Anyway, over a period of many years, I found another, then another, then another, and then still others. I remember at one point realizing that I was looking at almost a connect-the-dots picture and certain points were connected. You know the point where the image of the final composite picture finally snaps into your mind? That was when the bottom fell out for me and I became lost in the truth. It was all too much....deliciously so....and I cannot posess it. It, however, posessed me. To me, this seemed so right. Ironic, but right.

Sorry to share so much from my own journey....I certainly respect the journey of others that may be very, very different from mine.

 

[Numptee]

What is 'true' for you may not be 'true' for me. In that sense truth is subjective.
If universal laws are universal truths, then they should be able to be experienced as 'true' universally.
What I hold as true today, may not be the case tomorrow, if I have experienced a paradigm shift.
Truth is fluid, it cannot be grasped and reduced from its abstract form so that we can comprehend it. Therefore, we must awaken to the notion that just as a fish swims in the water, so the water is in the fish. the fish and water are one. So we must become our own truth..we, on an endless quest to discover the truth within us, will realize we are the truth or the many truths within us which make us who we are.

 

[sookie]

Oooooo, thanks....I'll look into this!!!

There are some truths that do unite us.

We all need to eat, we all need to clean, we all need to have some form of love and caring, we all have a need for friendship. This is all in varying degrees of course. We all have strengths, and weaknesses. We all have life challenges. We all need money to live.

I think that we all need something to focus on. Depending on the person depends on what the focus is on. Some they live their lives looking after family (or at least for a time), or working, or collecting money and power ect. All people are seeking something. They either seek to watch tv, or seek to relax, or seek religion/knowledge, seek a relationship.

What do you guys think?

 

[randomsomeone]

I think that we all need something to focus on.

I think you are probably right...we need somewhere to place our human energy. That said, among some of my acquaintances much of that energy is strangely misplaced, and the results show it. In these case there is a diminishing effect. Finding our best selves, and operating out of that somehow is a good direction/focus....sometimes it takes awhile to find that.

 

[sookie]

Not everyone is seeking that. I am. Some people are just maintaining. I have done that. That is not enough for me. I need to grow.

 

[Roger]

Well, i have practice of for this thing. I do this everyday. I think, if we want truth from important things, we should keep our eyes open. It means we have to remain more alert. When it comes, just try to identify it. You will come to know. Look at things how it is, what it is saying?

 

[Norton]

How does one ever truly know?

Perhaps the closest to truth one may get is being truthful to their heart and soul.

They say you'll lose weight if you eat less. You eat less. You lose weight. Confirmed--eat less and you lose weight.

They say stoves are hot. You touch a stove and burn yourself. Stoves are, indeed, hot.

If you take ibuprofen for your headache and the headache goes away, your experience is consistent with what was claimed.

If you ski down a hill and lean back too far, you lose your balance, just like your ski instructor told you.

I could go on and on, but I trust that you see what I mean. Your whole life is just one continual confirmation of truths. You live your life according to such truths, sophistry be damned.

 

[bamf]

I've never really understood why people are in frantic searches for the 'ultimate' truth. To me, I guess it's never really mattered. In the end, I'll only know what I believe to be true. And in the end, does the ultimate truth really even matter? What difference will be made in our lives if we 'discovered' god was in fact out there? Would it change anything? No. Just because we learn something, doesn't really change what has always been or what will always be. The ultimate truth will always be the ultimate truth, whether or not we know it. Sure, it's fun to look for it, but why get bent out of shape if we never find it? Our knowledge of it won't make a difference in the end.

 

[bamf]

They say you'll lose weight if you eat less. You eat less. You lose weight. Confirmed--eat less and you lose weight.

They say stoves are hot. You touch a stove and burn yourself. Stoves are, indeed, hot.

If you take ibuprofen for your headache and the headache goes away, your experience is consistent with what was claimed.

If you ski down a hill and lean back too far, you lose your balance, just like your ski instructor told you.

I could go on and on, but I trust that you see what I mean. Your whole life is just one continual confirmation of truths. You live your life according to such truths, sophistry be damned.

David Hume had some interesting ideas about this though. When we 'learn' something, we assume it will always (baring any crazy circumstances) be true. He points out that just because something has happened in the past, it gives us no real reason to believe that it will happen again in the future. Just because the stove was hot when you touched it, doesn't mean it will always be hot. What we call "facts" are just products of experience. However, there is no real connection between past experiences and future experience. The action/reaction from a past experience is completely separate from any future action/reaction.

According to Humes, there is no more reason to believe that the stove will be hot, than to believe that it will be ice cold (even if on) the next time you touch it. Just because something has happened is no way to justify it happening in the future. It has to do with the problem of induction.

Now, I'm not advocating anyone going out and touching a hot stove just because anything could happen. You're going to get burned, I have no doubt in that. Humes and his ideas however, are something worth thinking about.

 

[randomsomeone]

Our knowledge of it won't make a difference in the end.

It has to me on a couple of levels: the search for truth has lent a sense of long-range perspective to my life, and anchor out of which I can move and interact...a sense of well-being. This in turn has made me feel more free to explore and express my life creatively.

He points out that just because something has happened in the past, it gives us no real reason to believe that it will happen again in the future.

I can see this might be the case in many ways, but it also might be different with ultimate truth in that time becomes less relevant...they are always happening NOW.

 

[NeverAmI]

Of course there are many things we do not see/comprehend. Many times an epiphany is a revelation to a situation like this. Truly taking in new knowledge sometimes requires a lack of bias.

There are moral lines that I simply wouldn't be able to cross and shed that bias, one such example would be murder. I would be interested in the motivations and such, but it is certainly not something I would prefer to experience. I think many criminals have a very different perspective of the world than us. While I might think someone is genuinely interested in talking to me or being a friend, someone else who knows the tricks might see that I am being taken advantage of.

I think it is important to give others a chance to be heard if they are competent and willing to inform/debate maturely. If they cross a certain moral line, then it is pretty rare that I will be willing to forgo that bias though.

If there's anything that I wish we weren't blind to is the idea that knowing all "truths" is not necessarily the holy grail; it's the acknowledgment and openess to different perspectives that truly enriches our experience.

Well said TDHT.

 

[Faye]

You know when you learn a new word, suddenly you notice it in everything you read? What if the same thing is true about more important things, like how life works and what the purpose of it all is..what if our eyes see it but our minds don't perceive it? Is it possible the truth is right in front of us but we're oblivious?

Yep, its a pain.