How do you experience empathy? | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

How do you experience empathy?

Years ago I met with my dad and I confronted him about all the abuse. I told him we remembered all of it and asked him why he did it. Because my family never talked about it. He started crying and I thought he might apologize but instead he blamed my mom. I remember just sobbing for hours when I left, I could not stop all night. I felt guilty. I felt like I had killed someone... I remember that I reasoned I must have felt that way because in confronting him and expecting an apology, I received only excuses and maybe part of me felt like I killed some idealized version of him capable of feeling sorry. And maybe that's true. But I never understood why I should have felt so guilty about it, like I had destroyed anyone. I don't know. Maybe he felt guilty but couldn't express it or face it.
 
Last edited:
Years ago I met with my dad and I confronted him about all the abuse. I told him we remembered all of it and asked him why he did it. Because my family never talked about it. He started crying and I thought he might apologize but instead he blamed my mom. I remember just sobbing for hours when I left, I could not stop all night. I felt guilty. I felt like I had killed someone... I remember that I reasoned I must have felt that way because in confronting him and expecting an apology, I received only excuses and maybe part of me felt like I killed some idealized version of him capable of feeling sorry. And maybe that's true. But I never understood why I should have felt so guilty about it, like I had ruined someone. I don't know. Maybe he felt guilty but couldn't express it or face it.
I am so sorry that you had this experience acd.. But I think you are right on track with your intuition. I think he was shocked, taken by complete surprise and then, fully backed into a corner, blamed her.. It is a psychological defense mechanism I studied about in college called rationalization..

From the interwebs:

"RATIONALIZATION
In the simplest terms, rationalization occurs when you try to explain your bad behavior away. Consider, for example, that you have an irrationally angry reaction to a situation in front of someone you like and want to respect you. Then to try to justify your behavior, you blame someone else for provoking you. Even if that may be true, it is not the actual reason for your outburst, it’s an excuse. Rationalization is a particularly common mechanism for those with more sensitive egos."

I hope knowing this gives you comfort... It seems to me that the guilt is just too much for him to handle.. too heavy to withstand.. and thus, he rationalizes.. he blames..
 
Love this thread @acd, always trust that feeling even if the reality of what your senses pick up seems different!!! Don’t let the feeling consume you but acknowledge it and always keep it in mind when interacting with those same people again..... I’ve had this happen tons of times, to the point where the person I tell it to disagrees with me and says, you’re dramatic, that’s not at all true.... only after some time to turn around and say.... I SAW it now, you were right.... people trust what they see, but some people can feel truth, even if others can’t see it.... I find this also to happen often between female energies, women aren’t always upfront with each other about what they think of each other in social scenarios, but boy can they send out strong feelings or vibes!!! as to how it works.... have no idea, but it’s a very special gift, cherish it!
 
I've had this thread sort of in the back of my mind for a bit now. I didn't know how to articulate anything properly after seeing it, just that it is something I've lived with thinking about a fair amount in my own mind most of my life.

I still don't exactly know how to say everything but something happened to me yesterday that I'll share.

So one of my best friends who I've known since elementary school just poured out some pretty heavy stuff to me. I know the guy extremely well, as well as anyone can know another person really, but he never told me this fairly significant thing until just yesterday. Intuitively, I had picked it up as a possibility (and no this is nothing you could really guess at and out of respect for him I'm not sharing what it is, plus it's irrelevant) but he never uttered the words directly to me. I've been operating for a long time under a spell of sorts, being given the information without being given it directly and I've conducted my friendship in a lot of ways in accordance to this particular thing being an actuality.

In a lot of ways, the empathy I develop with people is very subconscious. I feel out the situation, and I respond accordingly. I would describe it as reactionary and adaptable. Which sounds sort of fucked up because empathy is in essence not supposed to be a reaction but a shared transference. And it very much is that, but the transference (especially a healthy one) only happens as a result of a sort of "open reaction" from both people.

My friend wasn't willing to have an "open reaction" regarding this topic until yesterday, and nor was I in a true sense until somewhat recently probably.
 
I've had this thread sort of in the back of my mind for a bit now. I didn't know how to articulate anything properly after seeing it, just that it is something I've lived with thinking about a fair amount in my own mind most of my life.

I still don't exactly know how to say everything but something happened to me yesterday that I'll share.

So one of my best friends who I've known since elementary school just poured out some pretty heavy stuff to me. I know the guy extremely well, as well as anyone can know another person really, but he never told me this fairly significant thing until just yesterday. Intuitively, I had picked it up as a possibility (and no this is nothing you could really guess at and out of respect for him I'm not sharing what it is, plus it's irrelevant) but he never uttered the words directly to me. I've been operating for a long time under a spell of sorts, being given the information without being given it directly and I've conducted my friendship in a lot of ways in accordance to this particular thing being an actuality.

In a lot of ways, the empathy I develop with people is very subconscious. I feel out the situation, and I respond accordingly. I would describe it as reactionary and adaptable. Which sounds sort of fucked up because empathy is in essence not supposed to be a reaction but a shared transference. And it very much is that, but the transference (especially a healthy one) only happens as a result of a sort of "open reaction" from both people.

My friend wasn't willing to have an "open reaction" regarding this topic until yesterday, and nor was I in a true sense until somewhat recently probably.
So glad you posted. Would I be a creep if I said I was waiting for you to chime in?!

I think we don't always have to lay the cards out on the table, especially if they aren't our cards to show.
 
This is a late reply, but maybe you felt guilty because you were identifying with your mother and felt the blame that your father was placing on her. Then, part of you felt like you died because you couldn’t speak up for your mother and that part that identifies with her, felt silenced. It’d be like watching your dad blaming her to her face and then her not saying anything in response. It’d seem like she accepted the blame when it wasn’t her fault. I don’t know if that’s the case or if it makes sense.
 
So glad you posted. Would I be a creep if I said I was waiting for you to chime in?!

Haha! Thank you, it's always nice to be appreciated even if in a bit of a creeper fashion :rainbowlove:

I think we don't always have to lay the cards out on the table, especially if they aren't our cards to show.

I've tried to illustrate the important points :). Did some back reading and there are some great points here already.

On a more personal side, I've always had people confide in me with very personal matters. I can somewhat predict when a person may be more likely to do so, or be in a more open state which gives me a sort of "feeling" about ok this time frame is when a person may be open and may approach me with something. Often though, it is still somewhat out of the blue. I am good at making people comfortable when I am in the right mind frame to be open myself.

Empathy is a two way street and often it's abused in a one way direction. I know because I've been on both sides of it.

I'm not too familiar with the correlation between trauma and empathy. I've experienced a shitload of medical trauma so that has perhaps made me more open to empathy on a whole.
And at one point when I was young, which I think was somewhat of a turning point in my overall personhood, I had been in the hospital for a couple of weeks and the nurses recognized I was getting a bit stir crazy so they decided to introduce me to a friend. It was a guy who was a few years older than me and he had been living in the hospital for two fucking years. That shit blew my mind as a dumb twelve year old getting all mopey about my two weeks. It's always been a very visceral reminder of how no matter what kind of crap you've got on your plate, somebody is having at least as terrible of a time out there. Everything at every level is sort of a struggle. If I can help people not get consumed by the struggle, I'll do whatever I can. Usually it involves empathy in some capacity because people have to help themselves more than anything, but having somebody to share the load can make all the difference. Ten minutes with that guy made the rest of my stay at the hospital a breeze, and future visits easier. Empathy is everything.
 
I can put myself in people's shoes, empathy.

I just don't necessarily feel bad for them, sympathy.

Based on this, I think I can say that I'm more empathetic than sympathetic.

EDIT: I think I actually misunderstood the post. In my intuitive understanding (which could be very personal), sympathy and empathy are quite different and sympathy isn't a "lower" form of empathy. I think sympathy features a different kind of volition than empathy, a more external kind perhaps.

Empathy is a two way street and often it's abused in a one way direction. I know because I've been on both sides of it.

I'm not too familiar with the correlation between trauma and empathy. I've experienced a shitload of medical trauma so that has perhaps made me more open to empathy on a whole.
And at one point when I was young, which I think was somewhat of a turning point in my overall personhood, I had been in the hospital for a couple of weeks and the nurses recognized I was getting a bit stir crazy so they decided to introduce me to a friend. It was a guy who was a few years older than me and he had been living in the hospital for two fucking years. That shit blew my mind as a dumb twelve year old getting all mopey about my two weeks. It's always been a very visceral reminder of how no matter what kind of crap you've got on your plate, somebody is having at least as terrible of a time out there. Everything at every level is sort of a struggle. If I can help people not get consumed by the struggle, I'll do whatever I can. Usually it involves empathy in some capacity because people have to help themselves more than anything, but having somebody to share the load can make all the difference. Ten minutes with that guy made the rest of my stay at the hospital a breeze, and future visits easier. Empathy is everything.

Thanks for that post Wy.
 
Last edited:
We know that empathetic people put themselves in other people's shoes and experience what they are going through, but what does that feel like to you? How do you experience it? Do you ever have moments of uncontrolled empathy? Does it ever confuse you? Do you have trouble differentiating what you are feeling from what other people are feeling? Why do you think this happens? What is the psychology behind it? I've read a little about it and some articles say a history of trauma primes the brain to pick up and respond quickly to emotional cues. That makes sense.

Other people's emotions make me uncomfortable and anxious. I want to get to a point where I can clearly separate myself from others' experiences and process it correctly to offer whatever help is necessary. Empathy is defined as the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. But I have trouble understanding those feelings in the moment. I guess these experiences are examples of emotional empathy, and not cognitive empathy.

I’ve been thinking a lot about something lately. Something that I usually brush off, or think is the result of a hyperactive imagination. Or maybe some kind of mental illness. I thought it was just social anxiety. I thought I was just naturally anxious and awkward. But what if I am awkward because I am picking something up and not processing it? But just trying to escape it? What if I just don’t know how to manage it, and so in certain social situations, I start to feel frantic and become skittish? Maybe I'm picking up nonverbal cues and not consciously processing them? I feel things after interacting with people that don't line up with the way people are behaving and with what they are saying. I always thought I was just socially inept, but lately, it's happened a few times--the person I've interacted with will inadvertently confirm that I was absorbing what they were feeling during our last interaction.

An example: A few months ago, I had a meeting with a new client and his mother. It was the first time that I had met them.

She was pleasant and polite. She was very cooperative in answering my questions. But there was just something so off. I felt so extremely uncomfortable with her, like I just had to get out of there. But it wasn’t because I wanted to leave-- I felt like she desperately wanted me out of there. She NEVER once said or even did anything to convey this that I recall. She was pleasant but seemed guarded, which is normal I think when you have someone you have never met come into your home and ask personal questions about your kid. She didn’t seem to really act any different than many of the other families I meet with for the first time. I tried to be easy going and informal and conversational with her, and still it didn’t ease the tension. I didn’t know why I felt this tension. But this is how I felt: I felt like I was some type of threat. And that made me feel guilty and wrong and confused. It made no sense because I felt like I was there to help.

I couldn't make sense of my reaction. These were nice people, I never thought they meant me any harm while I was in their home. I was really puzzled by this for weeks until my next meeting with her. At my next meeting, she opened up and confided that she had been abused by her son's father, her ex-husband, and that since leaving, he used the legal system to victimize her through the courts. She explained that she was afraid when she met me that her husband would somehow find a way to badger her through my involvement with her son. And it made sense then, that what I was feeling when I met with her, was what she was feeling.

It's happened online. Someone posted a response to me on a forum in a thread I created and I just remember reading the post and feeling like a huge emotional blowback. It was like a psychic- energy explosion. I read their post several times over and the words didn't line up with my reaction to the post. I thought I was imagining it and it confused me. The content did not match my reaction to reading it. So I didn't say or do anything, but just kept this all in the back of my mind. Then, MONTHS later, in a PM, this person inadvertently brought up the post and told me they were feeling very strongly when they posted it. This was not a controversial thread topic.

Those are just two examples. The most recent ones. They are salient because the people later confirmed what I experienced.

Anyway, please share your thoughts and experiences.

I haven’t read the other responses so forgive me if this has been covered. Countertransference comes to mind. It’s when you have an emotional reaction to your client’s contribution/presentation. It’s advisable to discuss this with your own supervisor/colleagues so that you can dind out where it stems from and resolve it if it makes the person difficult to work with.

As far as anxiety, there are times when I’ve probably glossed over a topic I should have explored further because I felt uncomfortable for the person when maybe that discomfort was more my problem than theirs.

I’ve also has tense situations like you described where I’ve felt attacked by clients who approach me through a history of feeling intimidated or cheated by others or the systems that I’m a part of.

I got on the wrong side of a client one day by cautioning them when they were emotionally escalated. That triggered them and I apologized for having said something that may have offended them. I later learned that even though I didn’t do anything wrong my apology was interpreted as an admission of guilt and that was all there was to it in that person’s mind.

It’s always confusing and unpleasant to experience this because it instantly makes me fearful and confused, rapidly draining my confidence and my capacity to make sound decisions.
 
Last edited:
If someone is real happy I will get real happy and bubbly! I love that feeling so I try to get people to that state so I can feed off them.... like a vampire!

wow that reminds me I had the idea that I 'drink in' or 'feast on' other people's emotions back when I didn't know MBTI or enneagram. It's odd but when you mentioned it, I think it's really like being a vampire, but in a good way ...lol

To answer op, I usually don't really understand my experience with empathy, maybe it's partially because I'm enneagram 9 and am not aware of my physical reactions well enough? I just noticed it when it obviously happened, like when someone cried and I'd cry with them for no apparent reason, or when someone close to me was sick and I started to feel sick too with the same symptoms, without even knowing that they're sick to begin with. My experience with empathy is mostly spontaneous and involuntary, I can't control it, only to recognize when it happens and waits for it to pass. At times they can be confusing because I don't know why I feel that way and where this feeling/ sensation came from.
 
wow that reminds me I had the idea that I 'drink in' or 'feast on' other people's emotions back when I didn't know MBTI or enneagram. It's odd but when you mentioned it, I think it's really like being a vampire, but in a good way ...lol

To answer op, I usually don't really understand my experience with empathy, maybe it's partially because I'm enneagram 9 and am not aware of my physical reactions well enough? I just noticed it when it obviously happened, like when someone cried and I'd cry with them for no apparent reason, or when someone close to me was sick and I started to feel sick too with the same symptoms, without even knowing that they're sick to begin with. My experience with empathy is mostly spontaneous and involuntary, I can't control it, only to recognize when it happens and waits for it to pass. At times they can be confusing because I don't know why I feel that way and where this feeling/ sensation came from.
So glad you posted this! You describe it just as I experience it at times--totally involuntary and spontaneous and confusing. (And I'm also a 9w8.) But only recently have I stopped internalizing it and trying to make those feelings mine. Only recently have I started to question where it's coming from when I enter into a situation feeling just fine but come out feeling otherwise seemingly without any reason. How did you get to the point where you started to question or recognize what's happening?
 
So glad you posted this! You describe it just as I experience it at times--totally involuntary and spontaneous and confusing. (And I'm also a 9w8.) But only recently have I stopped internalizing it and trying to make those feelings mine. Only recently have I started to question where it's coming from when I enter into a situation feeling just fine but come out feeling otherwise seemingly without any reason. How did you get to the point where you started to question or recognize what's happening?

I have to admit that I've been oblivious and can't tell them apart too for most of my life, partly because I thought it's just a normal experience. It's not until I went on a random searches on google and found tons of articles about empathy and empaths on the internet. Oh, actually there was a professor in college who called me an empath when she read my writing, at that times I didn't even know what it means, as English is my second language, and my environment wasn't really 'empathetic' per se. I'd say that I totally learned it through the sources from the internet and started to identify almost 100% with them, then I retrospected about what happened in the past and be more aware of the patterns that tend to happen in the present. I also practice mindfulness meditation which helped me to better identify feelings / sensations when they happened. One way is to identify if the feelings/ sensations were attached to your ego or desire or not, if not, then it's someone else'. It's quite difficult to explain because getting hands on will be more apprehensive than just in texts.

I think mindfulness is one of the most valuable tools for enneagram 9's growth as we tend to perpetually forget ourselves. I highly recommend this type of meditation along with the practice of setting boundaries and grounding for fellow 9 and empath. :smiling: You can find much of the details and schools for empaths online.