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[INFJ] Help needed: how to approach an INFJ?

Ginny said:
I don't think you meant it that way, and it's probably my always wanting to read correct grammar, but anyway, you ought to use articles. In this case, you made it ambiguous: is it the catholic girl or a catholic girl?
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I am constantly forgetting to write "a", "an" or "the" :neutral: In this case it was "a". I should write in English more often.

Ginny said:
In both cases, your list sounds an imaginary future world you have contrived as an ideal scenario. I can tell you now that it is not going to work like that. A person can't be reduced to a type, nor does anybody want to be. Futhermore, statistics shouldn't be used until you have at least talked to her. Otherwise you don't have enough data to go on, rendering your "statistics" from an empirical point of view meaningless.
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Everything started before knowing her type. There was something about her and her smile. Than I realized that I should work because she is certain type.

I can't agree with "type doesn't" matter part. This is INFJ perspective - your first function is perceiving function. As INTP I my first function is a judging function. This is the reason why it is harder to adapt. When interacting with ENFP I have constantly suppress my Ti not to offend them (Ti is their polar function) - I happened even before knowing anything about typing. It is just tiring. With my ENFP friend it's like I have to hide some part of myself all the time. It is also easy to spot ENFPs as they always try to impress me (relationship of supervision) in relationship it can be unhealthy for them.

With Te users I feel like they are questioning my basis all the time. Even if they managed to understand how I am functioning there is terrible miscommunication. I am often arguing with my INTJ father over nothing - we just don't understand each other on the fly. Same happens with all INTJ friends - one of my favorite types anyway!

I suppose my too strong Ti might be really annoying for Fi users. It's just opposite to what they prefer. I would have to force myself to value Fi..

As I mentioned I wouldn't be able to stand any Sensor. Si love for chores is annoying more than anything. OK, maybe hedonist Se is worse ;) (my polar) Also Sensors are not interested in self development in a way I value.

Now there are only INFJs and ENFJs left. With ENFJs there is overstimulation issue. INTP / ENFJ conversation can be great but only when alone. There is a huge gap because of sharing Ti, Fe on opposite ends.

Every type can work with other type (not to lead to divorce). But it might be just tiring and unfulfilling.
 
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Joyce said:
my own view on what you are explaining is this...
1- If as you say she is as interested in you as you are, she is dying for you to make a first step.
2 - Caution tho.. try to observe a moment where, as a real INFJ, she will be with friends but not really mixing in.. as if more lost in thoughts..
3 - Make sure she sees you approaching
4 - And the heck with her friends if they know that you are interested.. the important part is that SHE knows.. cause as an INFJ, unless it is said crystal clear to us.. we can't imagine that someone is really interested in us in a romantic manner and we always figure that people are just being nice to us..
5 - So what ever the excuse you will find to talk to her.. once you guys are free to talk.. tell her that seeing her smile makes your day brighter.. that her energy feels amazing to you... that you would really like if you could get to know each other.. ( even if online at first, she might feel more at ease that way )

Wishing you good luck and hope you see her again soon :)
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Great insightful post!

I will try to make a nonverbal sign to give her time to mentally prepare. I see that you (INFJs) are much more comfortable with expressing feelings in public (it still doesn't mean you are comfortable about it). I hate to be put on the spot unless it is logical or funny :grin: This is a reason why I am faking feelings in public.

Asa said:
@INTP user
Just talk to her, or message her on social media. Be genuine.
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heiots said:
I would work on contacting her through social media and getting to know her better before "gently grabbing" her hand to take her from her group of friends. If you've never spoken, it'd be like, "Woah, who is this, and why are you touching me?"
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I had to read few posts like that before believing in this! I always thought that it is creepy to stalk somebody and write messages. INFJs are more weird than I thought :astonished: (that's good)

I will do that in real world anyway. I am not shy as I was younger and I thing it's better to have instant reaction visible.

the said:
Are you an involuntary celibate?
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What do you exactly mean? (Te - Ti misunderstanding :grinning:)
 
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INTP user said:
I am constantly forgetting to write "a", "an" or "the" :neutral: In this case it was "a". I should write in English more often.



Everything started before knowing her type. There was something about her and her smile. Than I realized that I should work because she is certain type.

I can't agree with "type doesn't" matter part. This is INFJ perspective - your first function is perceiving function. As INTP I my first function is a judging function. This is the reason why it is harder to adapt. When interacting with ENFP I have constantly suppress my Ti not to offend them (Ti is their polar function) - I happened even before knowing anything about typing. It is just tiring. With my ENFP friend it's like I have to hide some part of myself all the time. It is also easy to spot ENFPs as they always try to impress me (relationship of supervision) in relationship it can be unhealthy for them.

With Te users I feel like they are questioning my basis all the time. Even if they managed to understand how I am functioning there is terrible miscommunication. I am often arguing with my INTJ father over nothing - we just don't understand each other on the fly. Same happens with all INTJ friends - one of my favorite types anyway!

I suppose my too strong Ti might be really annoying for Fi users. It's just opposite to what they prefer. I would have to force myself to value Fi..

As I mentioned I wouldn't be able to stand any Sensor. Si love for chores is annoying more than anything. OK, maybe hedonist Se is worse ;) (my polar) Also Sensors are not interested in self development in a way I value.

Now there are only INFJs and ENFJs left. With ENFJs there is overstimulation issue. INTP / ENFJ conversation can be great but only when alone. There is a huge gap because of sharing Ti, Fe on opposite ends.

Every type can work with other type (not to lead to divorce). But it might be just tiring and unfulfilling.
Click to expand...

I think from your way of argumentation that you would benefit more from such a relationship than your ideal SO. If she has any spine, it is very likely that she'll leave you in the end because of a lack of interest on her part. I guess this is why you want her to be catholic, so she's less likely to divorce or cheat on you. There is despite my misgivings a 43% chance of success according to socionics, so I might be wrong. In that case, "type doesn't matter" would apply, in terms of type relations. If type relations mattered to you, you would have attempted a relationship with your dual, the ESFJ. It seems you heard of socionics, so I used this as a reference tool.

I cannot agree with your stereotypical thinking, not all sensors are alike. I watched a video that demonstrated the stereotypical ESTP, and I disliked what I saw, but that doesn't mean that I hate all ESTPs. And this is hardly an INFJ thing to say. It is individualistic, nothing more. I'm beginning to think that you prefer to box people in rather than developing a sense of diversity. Having Ne, you should actually be able to conceive that notion, but it seems like you deliberately ignore it.

If you don't know that she is a certain type, but merely assume, your "process of elimination"-logic does not apply until you do. It's the same thing as your use of "statistics" before. Physical traits, even behaviourisms, do not make a type. Any expert could tell you that. So your process of typing is also flawed. While it may be that you don't favour some archetypes, you shouldn't go about typing people willy-nilly, especially when you don't know them. With all your Ti, I believe you use it here more as an excuse rather than being rational.

I'm merely pointing this out to you because you seem to be blind to it. You should work on that if you want to have a relationship with an INFJ, because these are issues that may come up.
 
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INTP user said:
Great insightful post!

I will try to make a nonverbal sign to give her time to mentally prepare. I see that you (INFJs) are much more comfortable with expressing feelings in public (it still doesn't mean you are comfortable about it). I hate to be put on the spot unless it is logical or funny :grin: This is a reason why I am faking feelings in public.



I had to read few posts like that before believing in this! I always thought that it is creepy to stalk somebody and write messages. INFJs are more weird than I thought :astonished: (that's good)

I will do that in real world anyway. I am not shy as I was younger and I thing it's better to have instant reaction visible.


What do you exactly mean? (Te - Ti misunderstanding :grinning:)
Click to expand...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/minority-report/201706/involuntary-celibacy?amp
 
Ginny said:
I think from your way of argumentation that you would benefit more from such a relationship than your ideal SO. If she has any spine, it is very likely that she'll leave you in the end because of a lack of interest on her part. I guess this is why you want her to be catholic, so she's less likely to divorce or cheat on you. There is despite my misgivings a 43% chance of success according to socionics, so I might be wrong. In that case, "type doesn't matter" would apply, in terms of type relations. If type relations mattered to you, you would have attempted a relationship with your dual, the ESFJ. It seems you heard of socionics, so I used this as a reference tool.
Click to expand...
In my country it is easier to find a catholic girl than atheist, so no need to make a fuss.

I see where you are coming from about bigger benefit from my side. I want my SO to be at last equally beneficial on relationship. But if I am for example constantly overstimulated it will be hard to satisfy extroverted feeler. I was just writing that INTPs are harder to match due to judging function as primary. I see similar issue with my ENFJ friend.

Primary judging means that there is some strong preference. In my case it is Fe, for ENFJs it is Ti. Types with primary perceiving (I am writing about intuitives - it's easier to relate) function preference is not very strong. It is more common for them to be interested in their duals. However most often they are staying in Intuitive axis but with opposite direction - e.g. INFJs are known to be drawn to Ne. It gives more options.

Another thing is that if we are considering relationship like INTP and ENFJ there must be more maturity on BOTH sides than in INTP and INFJ or ENTP and ENFJ. I prefer younger girls. I don't want to be forced to have kids at the moment.

Dual relationships are good only in theory. My mother is ESFJ she is workaholic in way which I don't value so much. My Se is weaker than Si, so INFJ gives me more things to learn.
Here are some statistics about relationship satisfaction:
https://www.man42.net/blog/2016/11/mbti-relationship-survey/relationships/

Ginny said:
I cannot agree with your stereotypical thinking, not all sensors are alike. I watched a video that demonstrated the stereotypical ESTP, and I disliked what I saw, but that doesn't mean that I hate all ESTPs. And this is hardly an INFJ thing to say. It is individualistic, nothing more. I'm beginning to think that you prefer to box people in rather than developing a sense of diversity. Having Ne, you should actually be able to conceive that notion, but it seems like you deliberately ignore it.
Click to expand...
???

Nearly all of my best friends were ISTPs or ESTPs :grinning: As for me friendship is about knowledge and learning, relationships about deeper connection. I am not sharing any feelings with my friends.

Ginny said:
If you don't know that she is a certain type, but merely assume, your "process of elimination"-logic does not apply until you do. It's the same thing as your use of "statistics" before. Physical traits, even behaviourisms, do not make a type. Any expert could tell you that. So your process of typing is also flawed. While it may be that you don't favour some archetypes, you shouldn't go about typing people willy-nilly, especially when you don't know them. With all your Ti, I believe you use it here more as an excuse rather than being rational.
Click to expand...
Ne is receiving new data, Ti is eliminating it. If I have to many options I can't make any decision. I feel that you have a wrong idea of what I am doing. I need to be convinced to put 100% effort into something.

I am trying to use many ways of determining which option is the best:
- statistics https://www.man42.net/blog/2016/11/mbti-relationship-survey/relationships/ (not enough participants, but better than nothing)
- anecdotal evidence from forums (user experiences)
- gut feeling and vibes - some types are causing dizziness, some instantly make me feel good
- consistency - if dual idea is true why number of opposite type people is far from being equal? How about biggest possible average IQ difference in some cases?
- scientific research - e.g. higher martial satisfaction for heteroverted couples

Ginny said:
I'm merely pointing this out to you because you seem to be blind to it. You should work on that if you want to have a relationship with an INFJ, because these are issues that may come up.
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Doesn't it prove I need an INFJ?:sunglasses:
 
INTP user said:
In my country it is easier to find a catholic girl than atheist, so no need to make a fuss.

I see where you are coming from about bigger benefit from my side. I want my SO to be at last equally beneficial on relationship. But if I am for example constantly overstimulated it will be hard to satisfy extroverted feeler. I was just writing that INTPs are harder to match due to judging function as primary. I see similar issue with my ENFJ friend.

Primary judging means that there is some strong preference. In my case it is Fe, for ENFJs it is Ti. Types with primary perceiving (I am writing about intuitives - it's easier to relate) function preference is not very strong. It is more common for them to be interested in their duals. However most often they are staying in Intuitive axis but with opposite direction - e.g. INFJs are known to be drawn to Ne. It gives more options.

Another thing is that if we are considering relationship like INTP and ENFJ there must be more maturity on BOTH sides than in INTP and INFJ or ENTP and ENFJ. I prefer younger girls. I don't want to be forced to have kids at the moment.

Dual relationships are good only in theory. My mother is ESFJ she is workaholic in way which I don't value so much. My Se is weaker than Si, so INFJ gives me more things to learn.
Here are some statistics about relationship satisfaction:
https://www.man42.net/blog/2016/11/mbti-relationship-survey/relationships/


???

Nearly all of my best friends were ISTPs or ESTPs :grinning: As for me friendship is about knowledge and learning, relationships about deeper connection. I am not sharing any feelings with my friends.


Ne is receiving new data, Ti is eliminating it. If I have to many options I can't make any decision. I feel that you have a wrong idea of what I am doing. I need to be convinced to put 100% effort into something.

I am trying to use many ways of determining which option is the best:
- statistics https://www.man42.net/blog/2016/11/mbti-relationship-survey/relationships/ (not enough participants, but better than nothing)
- anecdotal evidence from forums (user experiences)
- gut feeling and vibes - some types are causing dizziness, some instantly make me feel good
- consistency - if dual idea is true why number of opposite type people is far from being equal? How about biggest possible average IQ difference in some cases?
- scientific research - e.g. higher martial satisfaction for heteroverted couples


Doesn't it prove I need an INFJ?:sunglasses:
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Sorry, you're just not getting it. Can't help you then, if you don't want to see it. 80% of what you're saying has nothing to do with what I wrote. And 50% don't make any sense at all. The other stuff is only pertaining to what you think you need and not what is good for you, least of all what is good for the other person, which is what you should be worried about.

You just want to change my mind, which is not going to happen. I have my opinion, you have yours. I can only tell you where you are overgeneralising. But you don't listen.

You're dead wrong if you think you know anything about my preferences.

Honestly, and this is dead serious, I think you're a creep with your overgeneralised assumptions and weirdly specific obsession. I tried to make you see reason, but honestly, I ... *sigh*
 
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INTP user said:
I will try to reply to some posts later. Now I will again quickly clarify something.

I'm not wearing glasses but that girl (if it wasn't her I have more options ;)) was staring at me last time. I didn't recognize her at firtst due to dyed hair. It was her who started eye contact. Another thing is that she remembers me after few months we haven't chance to see each other. I do not have wonder if she is interested - for sure there is something going on. It's just a matter of LOGISTICS how to approach her.

I haven't talk to her yet. How do I know she is INFJ? Laser eyes, Fe smile, ghost walk and elegant outlook.


Is she my future wife? In this case statistics should be used.

First MBTI type - 1,5% - I belive an INFJ is best thing I can get. There is no way I will take any Sensor. I am not interested in ENFPs. I like them but they are too flighty and do not value logical principles. ENTJs are too pushy and I am passive. ENFJ are cute, I love to be around them but it's always hard to find a topic to talk about. They also have too much friends. Other N-types are not fulfilling. INFJs are rare and hard to find in my natural environment. Probably except of churches.

Age - I can go for 10 to 20 years younger ;> The problem occurs when you want to meet them. I am not a teacher or something like that ;D Most times you need to be really quick at typing not to miss a chance.

Shared values - I want catholic girl. There are many reasons for that. I think it is
save to have some external rules to follow in case of any conflict.

Looks - even if I have found INFJ and she is in proper age, she still can be ugly (/not attractive enough) or atheist (nothing wrong with them but: no). Just guess how low is a chance of finding girl like this.

Plus there is a gut feeling: "yes she is".
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Screenshot_160.png
 
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Ginny said:
Sorry, you're just not getting it. Can't help you then, if you don't want to see it. 80% of what you're saying has nothing to do with what I wrote. And 50% don't make any sense at all. The other stuff is only pertaining to what you think you need and not what is good for you, least of all what is good for the other person, which is what you should be worried about.
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It may sound self centered but it is always easier to relate to yourself as a starting point. Than you can move to understanding someone's else preferences. I don't know if it's better to be with a person one we are or another way - in both situations there is a problem. Again it's self centered, I can avoid problems but I am aware of problems only on my side.

Let's give an example. I'm not interested in relationship with 30yo girls. For me the problem is I'm working on my business and need some more time before I will start family. Now there are two options:
- I'm abandoning plans
- I'm working on my business but she is living under pressure
There is also option that I am changing my mind after wasting her few years. I think it is better not to to start something I am not capable doing. On the other hand I have a friend who has 4 years older girlfriend. He didn't consider this problem before starting relationship. Which approach is better?

How can I guess if other type will like me? I can't really understand someone's else attraction. I can only read what they think about my type and learn about their experiences. It's less structured, nothing to write about. Only thing I can do is guess that Ne in my stack is imitating Se. Then I can present true myself and give a chance to make a decision.

If this relationship worked it's worth trying. I wouldn't jump into someone's life without knowing I will not make a mess.

That's my way of thinking.

Ginny said:
You just want to change my mind, which is not going to happen. I have my opinion, you have yours. I can only tell you where you are overgeneralising. But you don't listen.

You're dead wrong if you think you know anything about my preferences.
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I don't see where I'm trying to persuade you to anything. I was explaining my thought process. This is also why I am not answering directly to your post.

I felt like some part of your life doesn't fit a framework which I created and you are becoming offended. I am not judging your decisions.

Ginny said:
Honestly, and this is dead serious, I think you're a creep with your overgeneralised assumptions and weirdly specific obsession. I tried to make you see reason, but honestly, I ... *sigh*
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How you can write, think or act without generalization? If some decision has been made there is no point in searching for alternatives.
 
INTP user said:
It may sound self centered but it is always easier to relate to yourself as a starting point. Than you can move to understanding someone's else preferences. I don't know if it's better to be with a person one we are or another way - in both situations there is a problem. Again it's self centered, I can avoid problems but I am aware of problems only on my side.

Let's give an example. I'm not interested in relationship with 30yo girls. For me the problem is I'm working on my business and need some more time before I will start family. Now there are two options:
- I'm abandoning plans
- I'm working on my business but she is living under pressure
There is also option that I am changing my mind after wasting her few years. I think it is better not to to start something I am not capable doing. On the other hand I have a friend who has 4 years older girlfriend. He didn't consider this problem before starting relationship. Which approach is better?

How can I guess if other type will like me? I can't really understand someone's else attraction. I can only read what they think about my type and learn about their experiences. It's less structured, nothing to write about. Only thing I can do is guess that Ne in my stack is imitating Se. Then I can present true myself and give a chance to make a decision.

If this relationship worked it's worth trying. I wouldn't jump into someone's life without knowing I will not make a mess.

That's my way of thinking.


I don't see where I'm trying to persuade you to anything. I was explaining my thought process. This is also why I am not answering directly to your post.

I felt like some part of your life doesn't fit a framework which I created and you are becoming offended. I am not judging your decisions.


How you can write, think or act without generalization? If some decision has been made there is no point in searching for alternatives.
Click to expand...

The thought energy you are putting into this is incredible.
 
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