You see a story on drone attacks on American citizens and automatically jump to the Shadow Government explanation. Its nonsense.
Gun Control and the Second Amendment
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You see a story on drone attacks on American citizens and automatically jump to the Shadow Government explanation. Its nonsense.
The author of the article i posted says he believes that the government is preparing to go to war against the public for the following reasons:
1. the government has made the NDAA legislation that defines US soil as the battleground and allows the detention of anyone the government deems a 'terrorist'
2. The department of justice has made a memo (see here: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/020413_DOJ_White_Paper.pdf) that legalises the killing of anyone the president declares a 'terrorist'
3. The Department for Hom3land Security has begun defining large sections of the US public as 'terrorists': http://www.wnd.com/2009/04/94803/
4. the government is already using drone 'kill lists' which it intends to increase, beyond any democratic oversite: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...89b2ae-18b3-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_story.html
I'd say that is a pretty logical chain of thought that the author is following there....far removed from the 'jump' that you claim
We're already at the mercy of the government military, if it chose to act against us. I don't think fully automatic real machine guns and grenade launchers would save us. Frankly, I'm not okay with the only other people who could afford military jets and tanks, the corporations and extremely rich, having them.
This whole issue to me disappears if we're actually talking about militias that keep their bloody guns locked up...
IMHO, banning the hi-cap magazines will at least drastically reduce kill-counts when somebody loses it and goes for the unlocked guns...
I also have no problem at all with people owning assault rifles if they stay in shooting ranges, locked under the control of someone who's at least
verified as somewhat sane.
Otherwise, the bill of rights assumes a military much closer to euro-style universal conscription than what we've got now.
...The "being necessary to a well-regulated militia" part seems important and often overlooked, which would seem to imply that
they expect some laws to govern even what the militias have...
In the military these sorts of guns and shizz are called force multipliers for good reason. Random Joe loses it and has a nuke.
Nukes don't kill people, people do... my point being that it's much more difficult to go on a killing spree with either
just a handgun, low-cap mags, or a sword. Obviously.
Also, I think the Whiskey Rebellion shows that it wasn't intended to justify people shooting-up government agents.
whenever they have a grievance. There's probably a way to reconcile people being able to own assault-rifles
with making it harder for owner's/relatives -- not locking up the guns well seems to be a common problem in these shootings -- to go on a rampage.
Edit: Despite everything I've said, Switzerland shows us that it is possible for guns to be widespread w/o shooting sprees happening all over.
The problem is cultural at it's root, a gun does need somebody to pull the trigger.
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I don't deny that guns can cause problems, though i think others (i think it was Billy) have already made the point in this thread that heavily armed countres like Finland and Switzerland do not have the same issues with violence
So i think the problem there is cultural....and who shapes your culture...THE CORPORATIONS!!!!
But i think the issue of whether or not guns are a problem should be looked at and debated in society, but not at the moment because we are in a crisis at the moment where we are seeing the government (ie the corporations) essentially declaring war on the public
There have been stirrings of resistance in the public for example the tea party movement or the occupy movement but these are simply tremors
The most pressing thing facing the US public at the moment is the changes their government are making which will strip wealth and power away from the people and give it to the corporatocracy
If the people can tackle that problem, then perhaps they should discuss the gun issue, but handing away more power in any from is a very bad idea at the moment
The issue is NOT about beating the military in a shooting war it is about forcing dissent against the corporation takeover from every quarter of society including the military
If the people have guns then there will be substantial numbers of soldiers who will not fire on their own countrymen
If the people do not have guns then the soldiers will simply be told by their superiors that they are rounding up small numbers of people for questioning, but in reallity large numbers of people may be rounded up right across the country (anyone the government deems a 'terrorist' for example anyone in a trade union, or any journalists or activists who have spoken out against growing government powers, or anyone in any organisation that the government doesn't see as in alignment with what they want may be treated as an enemy by the government)
If the people are armed the soldiers are more likely to resist any orders to control the people
That's the issue not whether or not we can outshoot the army
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just read this article and draw your own conclusions on what it means to be free in the US. They are after much more than guns: http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blo...igators-animal-enterprise-terrorism-act/5440/
CISPA is back again....they are trying to get it passed into law as part of the corporate control of the internet:
https://rt.com/usa/news/cispa-cyber-bill-last-133/
https://rt.com/usa/news/cispa-cyber-bill-last-133/
So instead of trying to solve the poverty issue and the cultural issue that is influencing the poor they instead tighten up on controls...yeah that sounds like the corporations; they do the same with peoples mental health. Instead of changing society to make it healthier for people they just dose people with drugs
Everytime a member of the public like you moves the locus of discussion from the fact the government/corporations are stripping power/wealth/civil liberties away from the public and instead puts the focus of the discussion exactly where the corporatocracy wants it which is in a debate over causes of gun deaths and whether not tighter controls work and what form those controls should take etc you are playing right into their hands by helping move attention away from what is really going on in the bigger picture
The politicians have been masters at voting manipulation by setting where the boundaries of various voting demographics are (that's how it works in the Uk anyway). Its perfectly conceivable that they could create the 'small' sample sizes to back up their claims. Further to that they could stage their orchestrated shootings in the states they want to depict as more vulnerable to gun crime
But either way you're still not looking at the wider picture of what the government is doing (the gun control issue only being a small piece of the puzzle)
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The broader implications are that your government has merged with the corporations which is FASCISM and they are seeking to centralise their power and wealth, increase controls over the public and create a two tier society where only the power elite can get the best health, housing, education, transport, security etc and everyone else is just going to get shit
The low interest rates the central banks are keeping is destroying the savings of the middle class while enriching the already wealthy speculators
The government is concealing inflation by not including food or energy in their equations but essentially the spending power of peoples money is going down. The bank of america has interest rates of 0.01% for savers at the moment which is drastically less than the rate of inflation which means anyones money in a bank is losing value
In my country there is currently a scandal where beef products in the shops are being found to contain horse, donkey and pig meat that is being bought cheaply from abroad (eg Romania). This is as Max Keiser says another form of inflation where the fact that sellers of beef products are keeping prices steady by using an adulterated product
I wouldn't be suprised if you guys have that scandal soon...we always get them first it seems. That LAPD officer manhunt they staged to warn people about what happens if you stand up against the authorities already happened in the UK with a guy called Raol Moat who shot a cop and then went on the run with massive amounts of media hype and the SAS brought in to hunt him down...of course it ended up with him dead
Then there is the school shootings being staged to justify the disarming of the public....we already had that with the Dunblane shooting which was covered up by a whitewash investigation, which i've posted stuff about already on the forum
You did get the false flag terrorist strike before us with 911. We later had the london bombings and of course there was a military exercise going on in the area just like there was with 911 and the madrid train bombings. Its just the same patterns again and again carried out in different countries as the corporatocracy use the same methods in different countries to take away peoples civil liberties (see 'strategy of tension')
Its like they have a manual for this stuff because it's all becoming pretty formulaic
The government is NOT trying to disarm the public.
Obama is trying to renew a ban that expired in 2004, and make it more difficult for unstable people to get guns.
The idea that this is the opening stage of a ban on all guns is pure unsubstantiated paranoia.
Hi Stu
There's a good documentary that came out recently that looks at what is going on with the financial crisis. It stresses in its introduction that it is NOT about 'conspiracy theorys'; instead it interviews many experts from a number of fields. It also looks at possible solutions
While watching it though it does of course become clear that there has been and continues to be a conspiracy between the government and the bankers....we don't need David Ike or Alex Jones to tell us that!
Anyway the film if you're interested is found at the link below and costs a minimum of $5 to watch but its very informative
So without going too far down the conspiracy theory road, do you think that it is reasonable to say that these changes that i and others have mentioned here in this thread at the very least might be occuring as a result of the economic downturn and concerns the ruling powers might have over the possible outbreak of civil unrest?
If people don't think (or don't want to think) these events are happening for the reasons stated by some of the more controversial 'conspiracy theorists' then it still begs the questions 'why are they happening' and 'should people be paying attention to them?'
http://buy.fourhorsemenfilm.com/
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These guys know they can't pull off a blanket ban...they have to make change slowly, or as Ike calls it the 'totalitarian tip toe'
Its been compared to the boiling the frog analogy with the public as the frog. If you drop a frog into boiling water it will jump straight out, but if you put a frog in cold water and slowly heat it the frog will slowly boil
They are slowly boiling us
If they want to change a law but they think the public would oppose such a change then they have to find a way to manufacture the consent of the public
One way to do this is to create a problem, blame it on someone else and use that problem to justify your argument for a change in the law, or as Ike calls it: 'problem, reaction, solution'
Ike didn't come up with this idea, he has just packaged it in a way that is easy for people to get to grips with: 'problem, reaction, solution'.....sounds good doesn't it? It just rolls off the tongue!
That's the skill of Ike he can package stuff well. Alex Jones is more intense...he is fizzing with energy as a way of trying to shake people out of their apathy
The problem reaction solution thing was actually spoken about by the philosopher Hegel who called it 'thesis, antithesis and synthesis'
So for example if i am a powerful group of people and i want a certain situation to develop, i can either create a false flag to scare the public so that they will agree to the changes i want (see 'strategy of tension') or i can fund two extremes and play both sides off against each other so that not only do i keep the public divided but eventually from the conflict will come a synthesis which is neither of those extremes but rather what i wanted in the first place
This is why people like George Soros will fund activist groups because he is trying to create a synthesis....a new order from the chaos; these guys often play both sides off against the middle
I've actually used this method myself and it works; it was against a person who was trying to coerce me and others so i have a clear conscience about that, but the point is that these ideas are very affective
Many of the members of the elite international banking families went to university in Germany where they learned about Hegel's ideas
I am not necessarily saying that they are trying to ban all guns...i don't think they could pull that off in one go. I think if that is a plan of theirs it would be a more long term plan probably carried out under the mandate of the UN
I think their short term goal is to take away guns that can actually be effective in a fire fight, because they are looking to subdue the public
Some might reasonably say that this is merely the ruling powers preparing for civil unrest as a result of the collapse of the fiat currency system and their fears of what might happen as a result
I personally think there might be a bit more to the whole thing, but i do think there is going to be hyperinflation and usually when food hits a certain percentage of earnings there is civil unrest
So my prediction is that we will see hyperinflation and we will see civil unrest
The ruling elite might try to lessen this by having a debt jubilee, where they have a global reset of all the debt. lets hope they get this organised soon hey?
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What happens is the good ol good cop/bad cop routine!
They do this in my country as well
They have created a two party system which is then very manageable for the various factions that make up the 'power elite' ie various banking houses, accountancy houses, oil companies, weapons manufacturers, political dynasties, industrialists, lobby groups and other interests
The two parties will keep swopping over periodically to give the public an illusion of choice, but behind these changing political faces will be the same factions that make up the power elite. these factions will continue to use their money and connections to exert influence and the two political parties will carry out the wishes of the power elite
The two parties are basically two sides of one party: the business party
Forums like the council on foreign relations which have many corporate members also have members from both the republicans and the democrats
So anyway as part of the illusion of choice, whichever party is not in power will say that it wants to do whatever the public are saying they want done, meanwhile the party in power will be doing whatever the corporations want them to do
Then the public get sick of the political party that is in power not doing what they want them to do so they vote the other party into power. But once the party that has been playing the role of good cop gets into power it shifts roles and instead of carrying out all the promises it made to the public it starts doing what the power elite want it to do! The party that has fallen out of power suddenly starts being nice to the public and making positive noises and promises of what it will do for them as it takes on the role of good cop
This is why the corporations keep getting richer and the people keep getting poorer, because the system is rigged
People in my country have actually got sick of this game and have started voting for other political parties including nationalist parties seeking to break up the UK! This is also now happening in the US with some people wanting some states to split off from the USA
The republicans also traditionally have the gun fans as their voters, so the ban the guns move (and the shootings) have to happen when the democrats are in power
Um, I think the point that stu is trying to make is that he's given up here because his thread has been totally hijacked. I haven't been too interested in this thread, so it only recently came to my attention, but if there is anyone who still wants to discuss the issue along the parameters that were defined in the OP, then let's please stay on topic. Anyone is free to create a thread to discuss the bigger picture if they want.
I'm going to post the OP below. In the OP Stu quoted me and some other people which in a way is inviting discussion from those people or at the least discussion on the quotes posted otherwise why post them?
The Op then goes on to talk about the role of psychology
So the thread seems to be about trying to weigh up to what extent psychology is a factor in the shootings
This would then require a look at the role of psychology, which lets face it is vast topic that can even encompass the views of conspiracy theorists who will talk about things like psychopathy, or egomania or other ideas about the mental states of the conspirators, but it would if it wanted to be an honest search also need to weigh the psychological factor against the other factors in play otherwise it is not really evaluating to what extent psychology is a factor
Gun Control and the Second Amendment
The Op then goes on to talk about the role of psychology
So the thread seems to be about trying to weigh up to what extent psychology is a factor in the shootings
This would then require a look at the role of psychology, which lets face it is vast topic that can even encompass the views of conspiracy theorists who will talk about things like psychopathy, or egomania or other ideas about the mental states of the conspirators, but it would if it wanted to be an honest search also need to weigh the psychological factor against the other factors in play otherwise it is not really evaluating to what extent psychology is a factor
Gun Control and the Second Amendment
As posted in "Bland Robot"
Originally Posted by muir 
Alex Jones is not crazy; they have edited the interview to make him look crazy
Yes he is raising his voice, yes he is animated, yes he is angry and he has good cause to be....he knows what those fuckers are upto
And that little worm Piers Morgan is their bagman
The bankers have disarmed most of Europe and Mexico and now they want to disarm the US and if they succeed they will then move forward with the next step of their plan to create a centralised government that they will control.
The bankers control the education system and they teach people that the American war of independance was a tax issue but Alex Jones knows that it was really about throwing off the international bankers (operating mainly through the Bank of england)
These international bankers are a group of families who are all intermarried. Many of them come from Germany originaly for example the Rothschilds, the Warburgs and the Schiffs. Also in the states is the Rockefellers and there was J.P.Morgan etc. In the UK there are also people like the Goldsmiths
These families own the federal reserve and the central banks of Europe and they bought up newspapers, TV stations, oil companies, universities, pharmaceutical companies, internet companies, weapons manufacturers etc to extend their power over many different areas of american and european life
Their foundations fund the changes they want to see in areas like education
They want to create a government that will control the western economy centrally but it will not be a democracy it will be a tyranny run by them
One of the barriers to them achieving this is the fact that the US public are armed and have a history of throwing off controlling bankers; all the US people need to do is learn their history and realise that the same families that tried to control them nearly 300 years ago are still trying to control them today
Jones knows that a confrontation is coming between the people and the bankers
Posted in "mass shooting of Children"
Originally Posted by TheDaringHatTrick
Horrific and chilling. I cannot imagine the pain these parents and families are experiencing. I have young nieces and nephews in kindergarten; if something like this ever happened, I think I'd have a mental break.
On a political note, I find it very suspicious that we've had two school shootings this week...coupled with a few others this year, including the Batman theater shooting. Seems odd to me. Where are all these psychos suddenly coming from?
Posted in "mass shooting of Children"
Originally Posted by solongotgon
I believe it [the mass shooting in Aurora] was staged. Once they take away your rights to bear arms; you open the door to a police state. The fear helps pass the laws that can easily allow the government to come in and search your homes and property at will. It's really not that shocking. Americans seems to be shocked at these notions but other countries have practiced this type of political maneuvering for decades.
......It makes sense. I suspect people with preexisting mental illness are much more easier targets for control and manipulation. Operation MKULTRA by the CIA have been documented in the US for decades by people whose "programming" failed and came to tell the stories of how exactly they operate. It's sad because they do own everything; including the media.
It is entirely possible (perhaps even likely) that people with genuine psychological disorders have access to weaponry that empowers them to kill a lot of people in a short period of time. That they commit these acts without prompting from an invisible conspiracy to enslave humanity.
That said, it is clear that the founders of the United States recognized the legitimate right of a citizenry to defend itself against a well armed government.
Personally I think that any firearm purchased in the united states needs to be registered and kept track of by some authority.
I also think that a citizen's right to bear arms is contingent upon their demonstrable behavior.
One topic that I have not seen touched on in this discussion is the role of psychology now and in the future in determining the mental fitness of a citizen to bear arms. It would seem that in a society where admission of participation in psychotherapy is grounds for non consideration of holding various positions of power that there is a real chasm here.
Alex Jones is not crazy; they have edited the interview to make him look crazy
Yes he is raising his voice, yes he is animated, yes he is angry and he has good cause to be....he knows what those fuckers are upto
And that little worm Piers Morgan is their bagman
The bankers have disarmed most of Europe and Mexico and now they want to disarm the US and if they succeed they will then move forward with the next step of their plan to create a centralised government that they will control.
The bankers control the education system and they teach people that the American war of independance was a tax issue but Alex Jones knows that it was really about throwing off the international bankers (operating mainly through the Bank of england)
These international bankers are a group of families who are all intermarried. Many of them come from Germany originaly for example the Rothschilds, the Warburgs and the Schiffs. Also in the states is the Rockefellers and there was J.P.Morgan etc. In the UK there are also people like the Goldsmiths
These families own the federal reserve and the central banks of Europe and they bought up newspapers, TV stations, oil companies, universities, pharmaceutical companies, internet companies, weapons manufacturers etc to extend their power over many different areas of american and european life
Their foundations fund the changes they want to see in areas like education
They want to create a government that will control the western economy centrally but it will not be a democracy it will be a tyranny run by them
One of the barriers to them achieving this is the fact that the US public are armed and have a history of throwing off controlling bankers; all the US people need to do is learn their history and realise that the same families that tried to control them nearly 300 years ago are still trying to control them today
Jones knows that a confrontation is coming between the people and the bankers
Posted in "mass shooting of Children"
Horrific and chilling. I cannot imagine the pain these parents and families are experiencing. I have young nieces and nephews in kindergarten; if something like this ever happened, I think I'd have a mental break.
On a political note, I find it very suspicious that we've had two school shootings this week...coupled with a few others this year, including the Batman theater shooting. Seems odd to me. Where are all these psychos suddenly coming from?
Posted in "mass shooting of Children"
I believe it [the mass shooting in Aurora] was staged. Once they take away your rights to bear arms; you open the door to a police state. The fear helps pass the laws that can easily allow the government to come in and search your homes and property at will. It's really not that shocking. Americans seems to be shocked at these notions but other countries have practiced this type of political maneuvering for decades.
......It makes sense. I suspect people with preexisting mental illness are much more easier targets for control and manipulation. Operation MKULTRA by the CIA have been documented in the US for decades by people whose "programming" failed and came to tell the stories of how exactly they operate. It's sad because they do own everything; including the media.
It is entirely possible (perhaps even likely) that people with genuine psychological disorders have access to weaponry that empowers them to kill a lot of people in a short period of time. That they commit these acts without prompting from an invisible conspiracy to enslave humanity.
That said, it is clear that the founders of the United States recognized the legitimate right of a citizenry to defend itself against a well armed government.
Personally I think that any firearm purchased in the united states needs to be registered and kept track of by some authority.
I also think that a citizen's right to bear arms is contingent upon their demonstrable behavior.
One topic that I have not seen touched on in this discussion is the role of psychology now and in the future in determining the mental fitness of a citizen to bear arms. It would seem that in a society where admission of participation in psychotherapy is grounds for non consideration of holding various positions of power that there is a real chasm here.
I'm very interested to see the information we are going to work with here to evaluate the psychological factor in all this. Has anyone got the psych reports of all the shooters that we can look at?
Has anyone got psyche reports of the shadowy figures who some believe might be orchestrting the shootings? I very much doubt it, however there ARE some things we do know. We do know that all the shooters were on anti-depressants that have been shown to cause irrational and violent behaiviours. We DO know that the big pharma companies that make these drugs are owned by the very same corporations that the conspiracy theorists say are behind the shootings. We do also know of many actions that have either been carried out by or proposed by the people the conspiracy theorists blame for these incidents.
If anyone doubts whether or not elements of their government could possibly kill their own citizens in order to achieve their goals then perhaps they should consider the following things:
1. They send their citizens to war all the time. 55,000 service people died in the vietnam war alone. 5,000 have died in the recent conflicts in the middle east
2. But would they do strikes on their own soil? Well yes, there are even publiashed documents outlining the use of terrorist attacks on US soil as a pre-text for further military action see for example Operation Northwood or Operation Gladio or Strategy of tension or The Gulf of Tonkin Incident or have a look at the clip i posted of Zbignew Bzrezinski elsewhere on the forum to see him actually talking about the plan to create a false flag in order to justify a war against Iran
3. If anyone doubts whether the CIA would allow the round up and murder of civilians then they should look into Operation Condor in Chile where the CIA helped the government to round up tens of thousands of civilians and have them murdered or as they called it ('dissapeared'), not to mention the assassinations of US citizens on US soil in Operation COINTELPRO
4. They kill people all the time for example they have killed over 1 million people in Iraq, when Iraq played no part in 911 and presented no threat to the US. most of those killed were civilians, many of which were children. The military left the desert strewn with depleted uranium shells which have infected many people with radiation leading to cancers and birth defects in children, not to mention the leaving of cluster bombs which children often then pick up; this is of course an echo of when the military sprayed agent orange in vietnam which was polluted by a carcinogenic dioxin by the manufacturers monsanto (who by bribing the government now have a monopoly on seed production, a move helped by Bill gates who owns many shares in their company and is trying to push their Genetically Modified products on governments around the world). Agent Orange was sprayed on the crops and water supply of civilians and caused cancers and birth defects in children. The military also tested nuclear weapons near inhabited atolls in the pacific causing cancers and birth defects in children, where some children were born with no bones and translucent skin; only their heart could be detected beating for a short while after their birth before they inevitably died. They also dropped two nuclear bombs on the Japanese even when the japanese had said they wanted to surrender so that they could test their new weapons which lead to cancers and birth defects in children.
Incidentally a study in france where monsanto genetically modified food has been fed to rats has been shown to give them cancers, so they will inevitably give people cancer and create birth defects in children
The vaccinations that Bill gates and big pharma are so aggressively pushing around the world have also been linked to autism in children and there has been a massive growth in auto immune disorders
I can go on and on about the various crimes against humanity that the people behind the US government are responsible for which clearly show a complete lack of respect for human life. How can anyone doubt that certain elements in the government and secret service are capable of murdering their own citizens in order to achieve their own goals in fact they have already been murdering their own citizens with drone strikes
What kind of 'psychology' do you think is involved with all of this?
So lets take a look at the comments in the OP:
Comment 1.
It is entirely possible (perhaps even likely) that people with genuine psychological disorders have access to weaponry that empowers them to kill a lot of people in a short period of time. That they commit these acts without prompting from an invisible conspiracy to enslave humanity.
No doubt some people who emotionally unstable do sometimes use guns. The issue at the moment is whether or not EVERYONE should lose the right to bear certain arms due to the actions of a few. There is also an issue over whether or not the high profile shootings that are making this a political issue ARE actually carried out by emotionally unstable individuals or whether they are orchstrated by elements within the government. Anyone who is not intellectually lazy will have looked into the discrepancies in the official stories of these events and will at the very least have come away aware that there are many discrepancies between for example what eye witnesses have said and what the government officials are trying to tell us
Comment 2.
That said, it is clear that the founders of the United States recognized the legitimate right of a citizenry to defend itself against a well armed government.
Yes this was done for a reason. Anyone who is not intellectually lazy will take the time to use the internet to look back over what the founding fathers said their reasons were for doing this. Anyone who does this will learn that the reason for the revolutionary war was over the central bankers of the bank of England wanting to destroy the colonislists currency called colonial scrip and that these same banking families have fought throughout the history of the US against the American people for control of the money supply (see for example the documentary ''the money masters'').
These families eventually managed to get the federal reserve created which they control and they won control of the nations money supply. They now use a debt based currency that is drowning america in debt. These same people are very concerned that with the age of mass communications that the people are becoming increasingly aware of how they have been defrauded by these bankers and they are concerned that the people are going to get angry; as a result instead of sharing the wealth and power around to make a more balanced and healthy society, they are creating a totalitarian state where the government will control every aspect of our lives. The proof is everywhere with changes to the law and the dismantling of the constitution that was created to protect the people form the bankers
Comment3
Personally I think that any firearm purchased in the united states needs to be registered and kept track of by some authority.
This is exactly what the authorities want so that when they clamp down on political opponents they will look on their lists of who has guns and go door to door confiscating them like they did during hurricane catrina
Comment4
I also think that a citizen's right to bear arms is contingent upon their demonstrable behavior.
And who decides what is 'demonstrable behaviour'? Wait....let me guess....its those same authorities that helped dissapear tens of thousands of people in chile in the 1970's by binding their hands and feet and then flying them out over the sea before cutting their bellies open and pushing them out of the door of the helicopter, in Operation Condor
Its those same authorities that planned terrorist attacks on US soil in operation northwood.....those same authorities that carried out mind control experimentation on their own citizens in Operation MKULTRA which involved the sexual abuse of people who had no idea they were part of an 'experiment' which involved the nazi scientists the US authorities grabbed at the end of WWII in Operation paperclip
Those same authorities that infiltrated the media in operation mockingbird to spread lies to the public
Those same authorities that have allowed the banks to rig LIBOR rates and get off scot free with crashing the banks....in fact not just not punishing the bankers but actually indebting the public by taking our tax money to give to the bankers after they had gambled away everyones savings they had been entrusted with?
Those same authroities that are killing civilians all around the world because they make money out of weapons manufacturing?
Those same authorities that poison children in many different ways?
Those same authorities who have created a psychiatirc categorisation scheme that is so broad and so vague that it can categorise ANY human behaviour as a disorder? So that anyone who is in a trade union or is a political activist, or is a journalist that doesn't parrot what the corporations want them to parrot, or anyone who wants to home school their child, or anyone who doesn't believe we should have deregulated the money markets in the 1970's or any of the other groups the government are now deeming 'terrorists' or anyone who wants to grow their own food (not controlled by monsanto) WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO OWN A GUN BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DEEMED TO NOT BE DISPLAYING THE CORRECT ''DEMONSTRABLE BEHAVIOUR''
Comment5
One topic that I have not seen touched on in this discussion is the role of psychology now and in the future in determining the mental fitness of a citizen to bear arms. It would seem that in a society where admission of participation in psychotherapy is grounds for non consideration of holding various positions of power that there is a real chasm here.
The psychiatrists are the gatekeepers. They decide who is ok and who isn't ok and their criteria will be given to them by the corporate dominated government
This i why they have been chemically coshing people with 'anti-depressants' and why the big pharma companies have been able to get away with the scandals they have been implicated in where inappropriate drugs have been prescribed to hundreds of thousands of people
One such scandal is where glaxo smith klein have been fined 3 billion dollars for bribing doctors to get them to give inappropriate drugs to people. Of course $3billion is only a fraction of the vast profits they made from this crime....who says crime doesn't pay huh? (see another recent case involving GSK where 800 children in Sweden have developed narcolepsy after being given a vaccine produced by that corporation: http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html)
So tying all this into the OP my opinion is that the people behind the government are psychopaths and we have a basic human right to protect ourselves and our loved ones from the actions of psychopaths
Has anyone got psyche reports of the shadowy figures who some believe might be orchestrting the shootings? I very much doubt it, however there ARE some things we do know. We do know that all the shooters were on anti-depressants that have been shown to cause irrational and violent behaiviours. We DO know that the big pharma companies that make these drugs are owned by the very same corporations that the conspiracy theorists say are behind the shootings. We do also know of many actions that have either been carried out by or proposed by the people the conspiracy theorists blame for these incidents.
If anyone doubts whether or not elements of their government could possibly kill their own citizens in order to achieve their goals then perhaps they should consider the following things:
1. They send their citizens to war all the time. 55,000 service people died in the vietnam war alone. 5,000 have died in the recent conflicts in the middle east
2. But would they do strikes on their own soil? Well yes, there are even publiashed documents outlining the use of terrorist attacks on US soil as a pre-text for further military action see for example Operation Northwood or Operation Gladio or Strategy of tension or The Gulf of Tonkin Incident or have a look at the clip i posted of Zbignew Bzrezinski elsewhere on the forum to see him actually talking about the plan to create a false flag in order to justify a war against Iran
3. If anyone doubts whether the CIA would allow the round up and murder of civilians then they should look into Operation Condor in Chile where the CIA helped the government to round up tens of thousands of civilians and have them murdered or as they called it ('dissapeared'), not to mention the assassinations of US citizens on US soil in Operation COINTELPRO
4. They kill people all the time for example they have killed over 1 million people in Iraq, when Iraq played no part in 911 and presented no threat to the US. most of those killed were civilians, many of which were children. The military left the desert strewn with depleted uranium shells which have infected many people with radiation leading to cancers and birth defects in children, not to mention the leaving of cluster bombs which children often then pick up; this is of course an echo of when the military sprayed agent orange in vietnam which was polluted by a carcinogenic dioxin by the manufacturers monsanto (who by bribing the government now have a monopoly on seed production, a move helped by Bill gates who owns many shares in their company and is trying to push their Genetically Modified products on governments around the world). Agent Orange was sprayed on the crops and water supply of civilians and caused cancers and birth defects in children. The military also tested nuclear weapons near inhabited atolls in the pacific causing cancers and birth defects in children, where some children were born with no bones and translucent skin; only their heart could be detected beating for a short while after their birth before they inevitably died. They also dropped two nuclear bombs on the Japanese even when the japanese had said they wanted to surrender so that they could test their new weapons which lead to cancers and birth defects in children.
Incidentally a study in france where monsanto genetically modified food has been fed to rats has been shown to give them cancers, so they will inevitably give people cancer and create birth defects in children
The vaccinations that Bill gates and big pharma are so aggressively pushing around the world have also been linked to autism in children and there has been a massive growth in auto immune disorders
I can go on and on about the various crimes against humanity that the people behind the US government are responsible for which clearly show a complete lack of respect for human life. How can anyone doubt that certain elements in the government and secret service are capable of murdering their own citizens in order to achieve their own goals in fact they have already been murdering their own citizens with drone strikes
What kind of 'psychology' do you think is involved with all of this?
So lets take a look at the comments in the OP:
Comment 1.
It is entirely possible (perhaps even likely) that people with genuine psychological disorders have access to weaponry that empowers them to kill a lot of people in a short period of time. That they commit these acts without prompting from an invisible conspiracy to enslave humanity.
No doubt some people who emotionally unstable do sometimes use guns. The issue at the moment is whether or not EVERYONE should lose the right to bear certain arms due to the actions of a few. There is also an issue over whether or not the high profile shootings that are making this a political issue ARE actually carried out by emotionally unstable individuals or whether they are orchstrated by elements within the government. Anyone who is not intellectually lazy will have looked into the discrepancies in the official stories of these events and will at the very least have come away aware that there are many discrepancies between for example what eye witnesses have said and what the government officials are trying to tell us
Comment 2.
That said, it is clear that the founders of the United States recognized the legitimate right of a citizenry to defend itself against a well armed government.
Yes this was done for a reason. Anyone who is not intellectually lazy will take the time to use the internet to look back over what the founding fathers said their reasons were for doing this. Anyone who does this will learn that the reason for the revolutionary war was over the central bankers of the bank of England wanting to destroy the colonislists currency called colonial scrip and that these same banking families have fought throughout the history of the US against the American people for control of the money supply (see for example the documentary ''the money masters'').
These families eventually managed to get the federal reserve created which they control and they won control of the nations money supply. They now use a debt based currency that is drowning america in debt. These same people are very concerned that with the age of mass communications that the people are becoming increasingly aware of how they have been defrauded by these bankers and they are concerned that the people are going to get angry; as a result instead of sharing the wealth and power around to make a more balanced and healthy society, they are creating a totalitarian state where the government will control every aspect of our lives. The proof is everywhere with changes to the law and the dismantling of the constitution that was created to protect the people form the bankers
Comment3
Personally I think that any firearm purchased in the united states needs to be registered and kept track of by some authority.
This is exactly what the authorities want so that when they clamp down on political opponents they will look on their lists of who has guns and go door to door confiscating them like they did during hurricane catrina
Comment4
I also think that a citizen's right to bear arms is contingent upon their demonstrable behavior.
And who decides what is 'demonstrable behaviour'? Wait....let me guess....its those same authorities that helped dissapear tens of thousands of people in chile in the 1970's by binding their hands and feet and then flying them out over the sea before cutting their bellies open and pushing them out of the door of the helicopter, in Operation Condor
Its those same authorities that planned terrorist attacks on US soil in operation northwood.....those same authorities that carried out mind control experimentation on their own citizens in Operation MKULTRA which involved the sexual abuse of people who had no idea they were part of an 'experiment' which involved the nazi scientists the US authorities grabbed at the end of WWII in Operation paperclip
Those same authorities that infiltrated the media in operation mockingbird to spread lies to the public
Those same authorities that have allowed the banks to rig LIBOR rates and get off scot free with crashing the banks....in fact not just not punishing the bankers but actually indebting the public by taking our tax money to give to the bankers after they had gambled away everyones savings they had been entrusted with?
Those same authroities that are killing civilians all around the world because they make money out of weapons manufacturing?
Those same authorities that poison children in many different ways?
Those same authorities who have created a psychiatirc categorisation scheme that is so broad and so vague that it can categorise ANY human behaviour as a disorder? So that anyone who is in a trade union or is a political activist, or is a journalist that doesn't parrot what the corporations want them to parrot, or anyone who wants to home school their child, or anyone who doesn't believe we should have deregulated the money markets in the 1970's or any of the other groups the government are now deeming 'terrorists' or anyone who wants to grow their own food (not controlled by monsanto) WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO OWN A GUN BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DEEMED TO NOT BE DISPLAYING THE CORRECT ''DEMONSTRABLE BEHAVIOUR''
Comment5
One topic that I have not seen touched on in this discussion is the role of psychology now and in the future in determining the mental fitness of a citizen to bear arms. It would seem that in a society where admission of participation in psychotherapy is grounds for non consideration of holding various positions of power that there is a real chasm here.
The psychiatrists are the gatekeepers. They decide who is ok and who isn't ok and their criteria will be given to them by the corporate dominated government
This i why they have been chemically coshing people with 'anti-depressants' and why the big pharma companies have been able to get away with the scandals they have been implicated in where inappropriate drugs have been prescribed to hundreds of thousands of people
One such scandal is where glaxo smith klein have been fined 3 billion dollars for bribing doctors to get them to give inappropriate drugs to people. Of course $3billion is only a fraction of the vast profits they made from this crime....who says crime doesn't pay huh? (see another recent case involving GSK where 800 children in Sweden have developed narcolepsy after being given a vaccine produced by that corporation: http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html)
So tying all this into the OP my opinion is that the people behind the government are psychopaths and we have a basic human right to protect ourselves and our loved ones from the actions of psychopaths
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