Gender-based Selective Blindness | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Gender-based Selective Blindness

Yes, don't say 'never mind...'

Figure out how to explain to him what it is that you want. Women are really bad about this because you seem to think that if you have to explain it, or tell us what you want, then it isn't sincere or something. This is the biggest problem women face in the 21st century. Women have gone out of their way to explain what you want in addition to a man being strong, but have neglected to notice that in doing so you've basically told us that you want us to behave in a way that isn't strong. It is your own fault that all the good guys are treating you the way they are. You've asked us to, and we want to give you what you want. You can't assume that men instinctively understand what you want, especially with respect to us being 'strong' for you. If you see potential in a guy, don't give up on it without explaining to him what it is you truly want. If he is interested in you, he'll listen, think about it, ask some questions, and eventually figure it out.


what about this:

*then what are you talking about
- show me that you love me, that you want me so badly you would fight the dragon just to get to me, show me that you are strong enough and have courage enough to protect me and my childeren

what that ring a bell?

the thing is, most of the times I don't know what I truly want, I can't put it into words, it is just a feeling of "njeah hmmm pfff no no this is not it"
 
The initial post does have some fine points to it, however it does seem to be sounding a bit like the 'nice guy syndrome fallacy' to me.
 
I'd argue its not a fallacy its reality. I can't blame many for saying screw it and turning away from women and frankly when women end up alone and single then maybe they will understand.

I agree with everything NobleHeart said. As frustrating as it is.
 
The funny thing is, the reverse can also be true.

The perfect woman might be right under the man's nose, and he might not realize it. Men seem to want the perfect woman too, which is just as frustrating for the girl. But meh, it's all part of it. We all want what we want, and we all have certain standards and expectations.
 
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I'd argue its not a fallacy its reality. I can't blame many for saying screw it and turning away from women and frankly when women end up alone and single then maybe they will understand.

I agree with everything NobleHeart said. As frustrating as it is.

I don't disagree that there is some truth to it, and in some cases it is exactly right. However, I do believe that there are far more men who claim to be the poor, unnoticed nice guy who the girl will never fall in love with then is accurate.
 
The funny thing is, the reverse can also be true.

The perfect woman might be right under the man's nose, and he might not realize it. Men seem to want the perfect woman too, which is just as frustrating for the girl. But meh, it's all part of it. We all want what we want, and we all have certain standards and expectations.

I don't know about that. I find men to be a lot more down to earth. Most men do want of course a good women. But perfect is a stretch.

What pisses me off is women complain that they want a nice guy but they only find jerks. When the nice guys are right there. And from where I stand this nice guy issue is a result of women and the media telling boys what women need or want but not truly understanding what there saying. This issues is not something guys brought about.
 
The funny thing is, the reverse can also be true.

The perfect woman might be right under the man's nose, and he might not realize it. Men seem to want the perfect woman too, which is just as frustrating for the girl. But meh, it's all part of it. We all want what we want, and we all have certain standards and expectations.


I think you are right that it could be true, but in the sweeping generality of the times we live in the pendelum has swung in the way of women being "gender-based selectively blind".
 
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Just adding some personal examples to this: When I am single, I do tend to take the guys closest to me, ei, my friends. I connect way better to men than women and make real friends out of men. It turning into something else is always the next logical step, and I take it every time. I have gotten caught up in jerks, but then I get rid of them and usually take a guy friend, the one whose shoulder I've been crying on just beforehand. I DO see you, nice guys, and I don't know who these other girls are.

However, if you are a huge downer, or never show any interest in me other than coming around and saying hi, then definitely I wont want you. If you don't show you want me, or are even interested, how would I want you? If you sound like you don't want ANYTHING, (one friend I know who is always down on everything, has no emotion but vague hopelessness, and never once said or really hinted he wanted to even see me outside of work) then f*** no I wont want you!

The third thing, if I am WITH SOMEONE ELSE, and they aren't a total jerk, then of course I'm not going to come on to you, nor encourage you to do the same. I have loyalty, and I don't chuck men in and out of my life as soon as I feel boredom. That being said, if a guy does show interest in me, even subtly, I notice, relationship or not. If the guy I am with start to not pan out, and I have this friend always doting on me, I DO notice and I start liking that doting friend a lot more, and attraction and love grows.

If you are A. Really are that doting friend, B. you've shown romantic interest and C. She's single, then the only other reason is that you've made the mistake of picking the wrong girl to dote on. Either shes super insecure, too shy to be romantic with someone she's familiar with or C, there is no mutual chemistry.

If its not working, you have to learn to move on yourself.


Lastly, Chaz was my best friend before I was with him. I was with another guy who was letting me down, but wasn't a jerk, so I wasn't letting myself fall for Chaz. However, because there was a huge connection, and I spent all my time with him anyhow, I soon became more interested in Chaz than my current boyfriend. The other relationship reached a point where I was fed up and completely unhappy, and my boyfriend let me down the last time, and it was over. He did do the "dumping" but I dont think I could have held out any longer. Soon after, maybe all of 3 days, and despite trying not to, I was on Chaz like white on rice.
There was a connection there and a stronger relationship than the one I had with my last guy, and there was eventually no fighting it. Sure it doesn't work out that way with everyone, but if the girl is any good, she sees you, I assure you she does.
 
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The funny thing is, the reverse can also be true.

The perfect woman might be right under the man's nose, and he might not realize it. Men seem to want the perfect woman too, which is just as frustrating for the girl. But meh, it's all part of it. We all want what we want, and we all have certain standards and expectations.

There's no such thing as a perfect person.
 
So you do agree that it's better to receive a sign that she's interested before starting the real chase. Otherwise you might be beating your head against the wall. And with just a little practice it is very easy to spot those signs.

Absolutely!

As for that part - although I've learned now how to get a woman, there is still left to master how to get the right woman.

And for us INFJ guys, I think this is the real issue. Finding (and catching) the right woman.
 
There's no such thing as a perfect person.

Agreed. However, there are people who are 'perfect' for other people. There isn't just one, but many for each of us... people who are perfect for us, because we have enough already in common and a reflex to adapt the rest of it. These people are not perfect for everyone, but there are also other people they are perfect for. The trick is finding one of them and choosing to make it work.

The funny thing is, the reverse can also be true.

The perfect woman might be right under the man's nose, and he might not realize it. Men seem to want the perfect woman too, which is just as frustrating for the girl. But meh, it's all part of it. We all want what we want, and we all have certain standards and expectations.

I've been waiting on someone to mention this, and I very much agree.
 
I don't think I would ever date someone unless we had been friends for at least one year.
 
Oh dear god. Here we go again -gets out dozens of past arguments where the same has been implied-

Let me spell it out for you

A-S-E-X-U-A-L

Got it? Got it? Good.
 
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Oh dear god. Here we go again -gets out dozens of past arguments where the same has been implied-

Let me spell it out for you

A-S-E-X-U-A-L

Got it? Got it? Good.
What 'cha replying to exactly here?
 
Just nobleheart's rebuttal that one day my hormones will disagree. I will respectfully tell him he is absolutely wrong and has no idea what my hormones will do in the future therefore should lay off.
 
Just nobleheart's rebuttal that one day my hormones will disagree. I will respectfully tell him he is absolutely wrong and has no idea what my hormones will do in the future therefore should lay off.
Also being asexual, dating is kinda strained then anyhow, you'd have to find either someone not interested in sex for other reasons or another ace. It'd take at least a year to find out if a friend is that kind of person.
 
Just nobleheart's rebuttal that one day my hormones will disagree. I will respectfully tell him he is absolutely wrong and has no idea what my hormones will do in the future therefore should lay off.

I agree. And while I do not have much to really say on this thread I will say this, that no human being is omniscient and thus cannot make absolute statements. Why? You do not possess knowledge of every human being to have lived, is living, or will live, and by making absolute statements and being aware of your lack of complete knowledge of everything you are purposely misconstruing your observations
 
I agree. And while I do not have much to really say on this thread I will say this, that no human being is omniscient and thus cannot make absolute statements. Why? You do not possess knowledge of every human being to have lived, is living, or will live, and by making absolute statements and being aware of your lack of complete knowledge of everything you are purposely misconstruing your observations
But if we are so fearful of being even slightly wrong to the point of never saying anything ever, taking it too far. I really don't think noble was being anywhere near as absolute or "huge" as your statement suggest. Mountains out of molehills imo.
 
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But if we are so fearful of being even slightly wrong to the point of never saying anything ever, taking it too far. I really don't think noble was being anywhere near as absolute or "huge" as your statement suggest. Mountains out of molehills imo.

Take a ruler in a bucket of water. Should we try to grasp it with our hands we may not be able to by a mere glimpse as the light rays bouncing off the ruler may have been refracted and thus we are seeing an inaccurate image. Now by accounting for the possible refraction we may be able to grasp the ruler. Apply this concept to what we are saying. The " refraction" is the "blind spot" that is produced by our lack of omniscience, the "ruler " is the truth that perhaps exists in a possibly objective and all encompassing universe. By trying to account for a blind spots we may come closer to the truth. Now I do not mean one ought to try and identify every possibility, for to do so may indeed take a long time, but rather to respect the existence of what may lie beyond our experience and to account for it by stating that when we are talking in terms of generalities we are talking about them as such. We can try to account for the observer effect. Certain things are by there own semantics true.

Take for example the statement: All biological fathers provided their offspring with the male gamete; this statement is by definition true, the definition of a biological father of person A is the individual from whom the male gamete that led to the development of A's feotus and thus their body is by definition true.

When dealing with issues concerning people, human beings we may need to to be even more careful. Generalisation can be said to be the production of a hypothesis of of a general observation taken to possibly be generally true. Comments made by virtue of the process "generalisation" but said to be ubiquitously true can be considered somewhat wrong and can even be deleterious. This sort of thought experiment is sort of disparate from what I am talking about here but let us examine it anyway:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Patients in a ward are infected with a bacteria that kills by inducing a life threatening fever

1. Patient 1 sweats when their body overheats from the effect of the bacteria
2. Patient 2 sweats when their body overheats from the effect of the bacteria
3. Patient 3 sweats when their body overheats from the effect of the bacteria

Conclusion drawn: All patients in the ward would experience sweating when there body overheats and there is no need to constantly check temperature.

A Patient with CIPA is infected with the bacteria

Wikipedia said:
Congenital insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis (CIPA) is an extremely rare inherited disorder of the nervous system which prevents the sensation of pain, heat, and cold — or any real nerve-related sensations (including feeling the need to urinate); however, they can feel pressure. CIPA is a type IV of hereditary sensory and autonomic neuropathy (HSAN), known as HSAN IV. A person with CIPA cannot feel pain or differentiate even extreme temperatures. "Anhidrosis" means the body does not sweat, and "congenital" means that the condition is present from birth. The odds of being born with this condition are 1 in 125 million.

* Also note how rare this ailment is projected to be*

4. CIPA patient does not sweat
5. Staff does not observe sweating and assumes based on the conclusion drawn that the patient does not have a fever
6. Patient dies

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now what was done would perhaps never have the same outcome as our little though experiment. But it could do something that is hurtful to other people. I believe that most of us have seen people or are ourselves feel utterly outcast or been treated like such in our life. By making comments regarding the entirety of a demographic group, you can end up making people who stray outside of the trend feel hurt and you are perhaps crticising the integrity of their identity . Also take for example the multitude of examples occurring in this thread. Comments criticising " men" and " women" as entire demographic groups regardless if there are some members who are exhibiting the opposing trends, ones that may have been commended. Yet those of the latter are being criticised for " faults" they do not possess or " wrongs" they have not committed. I do not think that is right and I believe that some may agree with me that criticising someone for something they did not do or trait they do not possess is wrong.


Perhaps I did make a mountain out of a molehill. None, the less I conclude with a phrase attributed to the philosopher Voltaire:

Voltaire said:
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd
 
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