Gay Olympians

[Soulful]

The issues you're raising are outside of the Olympics scope. The equality you're talking about is much more global and have to do with the countries those athletes come from and there is so much more at play than simple athleticism; economics, political stability, and cultural preferences for one sport over the other. I can make the same arguments for college programs, Nobel prize winners, and the rates of unemployment. That can't be solved through one sporting event.

The equality I am talking about is this; in one category, competitors are being compared in terms of their athleticism only. Not race, not religion and certainly not sexuality. Gay athletes are not turned down from competing because they are gay. Maybe some of those athletes are happy that their sexuality isn't being scrutinized, because for once it doesn't come into play and it is not a deciding factor, where their performance is the only thing under the spotlight.

Number of athletes that represent a country does not matter either. A gay Ethiopian can compete against and an Australian muslim and all that is going to be considered and judged here is their ability to lift a 100 and something kg worth of weight. That's all. To some people, that's equality.

I understand your point and appreciate the cause you care about, but you're pursuing the wrong channels here.

Thanks Odyne, but I'm not suggesting that the Olympics should solve anything, or that it is possible for them to solve anything.

My point is that all those things which are outside of the scope of that single athletic event, do affect that event and the outcomes of that event. I don't see how it is possible to separate or analyze the athletic event without taking into consideration its context.

I understand how that context may be irrelevant to the perspective of an audience member who is solely observing the competition between athletes, or the skill that goes into this level of athletism. However, I don't believe it to be for the sake of a broader discussion.

Additionally, we don't actually know how many athletes are turned away from sports because of their sexuality, or how many keep their sexuality a secret in order to continue to practice their sport. This is obviously a different factor in different parts of the world and within different cultures. However, there may be something to be said about the possibility that LGBTQ athletes, globally and due to their sexualities, face particular obstacles in reaching the same pinnacles as their heterosexual counterparts. The same can be said about other minority groups. Thus I don't see how identity has no impact on one's ability to thrive in competition, especially at such an elite level.

Here is an interesting article that discusses an example of queer-phobia and sport: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/s...hobia-remains-an-obstacle.html?pagewanted=all

Does that help?

 

[Soulful]

I understand that people take sexuality for granted all the time. I'm not assuming everyone else competing is straight. Still, it's hard to say what being "out" is. Say 5% of them are actually gay or some other non-hetero sexuality. The only way to find that number is to survey all the participants (if they are even willing to talk to a stranger), or look at who announced their sexuality in the press or personal website. Both of those options are incredibly time consuming... You don't know that the other athletes aren't plenty happy to talk about their mates with others, just not to the entire public. I don't doubt that ostracization exists, but don't assume that oddly low numbers are due to ostracization only. The context though is a bit odd - we're not talking about a political event. It's a context where people want to focus on their sport.

Huffington post got their numbers here: http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2...bian-athletes-at-2012-london-summer-olympics/

All I can say is that it might not be as bad as you think.

Thanks IH.
I should have explained myself better in the original post, or perhaps just kept my reaction to myself.
I don't know how many athletes are gay. I don't know how many are out in their personal lives but choose to keep those lives private and not made national/international news. I don't know how many are in the closet entirely. I imagine quite a number of them do live in secret, but I also imagine that many of them - whether or not they feel forced to live in the closet - would just rather not make their private lives public business.
More than anything, I think this article speaks to a larger issue within our society that merits discussion.
It is a bit against the grain of our society to ask people about their romantic and sexual affections in relation to an athletic event. However, as strange as it may be, it is nonetheless vital to have public queer role models in this day and age.
It's unfortunate.

 

[ImpureHedonism]

Thanks IH.
I should have explained myself better in the original post, or perhaps just kept my reaction to myself.
I don't know how many athletes are gay. I don't know how many are out in their personal lives but choose to keep those lives private and not made national/international news. I don't know how many are in the closet entirely. I imagine quite a number of them do live in secret, but I also imagine that many of them - whether or not they feel forced to live in the closet - would just rather not make their private lives public business.
More than anything, I think this article speaks to a larger issue within our society that merits discussion.
It is a bit against the grain of our society to ask people about their romantic and sexual affections in relation to an athletic event. However, as strange as it may be, it is nonetheless vital to have public queer role models in this day and age.
It's unfortunate.

How to best be a role model is an interesting question. I'm not sure if being "out" or the whole idea of being "open" is the right topic to consider. There is nothing actionable about announcing being "out" as queer, just as there isn't anything actionable about being "out" as an atheist at the Olympics. On one hand, if you're a role model as an athlete, it's worth being open about your identity and values. Still, privacy is a value, so not all aspects even pertain to being a role model as an athlete. Where being "out" matters, for any bit of self-identity, is when there is an injustice. If any of these athletes experience queer phobia, or even stupid stereotypes, I hope they do speak up and are out, because that leads to something actionable. Injustice requires response, and that's something I'd totally support. But here... it's being out for the sake of being out. I'm not dating them, they don't need to tell me.

Of the ones that are out in the first article you linked, how does it relate to their career? Are they responding to queer phobia, or stereotypes, or just stating it like stating hair color? You know as much as me, but it's a question worth asking.

 

[Soulful]

How to best be a role model is an interesting question. I'm not sure if being "out" or the whole idea of being "open" is the right topic to consider. There is nothing actionable about announcing being "out" as queer, just as there isn't anything actionable about being "out" as an atheist at the Olympics. On one hand, if you're a role model as an athlete, it's worth being open about your identity and values. Still, privacy is a value, so not all aspects even pertain to being a role model as an athlete. Where being "out" matters, for any bit of self-identity, is when there is an injustice. If any of these athletes experience queer phobia, or even stupid stereotypes, I hope they do speak up and are out, because that leads to something actionable. Injustice requires response, and that's something I'd totally support. But here... it's being out for the sake of being out. I'm not dating them, they don't need to tell me.

Of the ones that are out in the first article you linked, how does it relate to their career? Are they responding to queer phobia, or stereotypes, or just stating it like stating hair color? You know as much as me, but it's a question worth asking.

I think there is something that queer kids, teens, and even adults, who are in many ways very much silenced and invisible (even in the so-called more accepting queer spaces/cultures like mainstream North America) can derive from seeing a gay public figure. Issues of representation and visibility are important. I'd say they matter both for people's sense of morale and sense of belonging and they are also political, even if they appear inactive or disengaged from advocacy efforts. I think they matter a lot... And I wouldn't compare something like sexuality to atheism. That's like.. oh I don't know... comparing issues of racism/race to vegetarianism. Not quite the same thing?

ETA: I feel like I'm starting to beat this topic to death. If you (in the plural sense) would like to talk about this some more, let me know but otherwise I'm done.

 

[Apone]

How open minded and inclusive of them. /sarcasm

It says that everyone is welcome... but chances are they're not going to attract anyone huge because most athletes know that being associated with such things hurts their chances/endorsement potential, except for a few niche items.

Personally, I don't think that someone's sexuality should matter, or that it defines them as a person to the extent where you're 'lying to yourself' if you don't tell the world. There are some people out there who choose to embrace their sexuality as their identity, but to me there's definitely a difference between being a man/woman who is homosexual and being queer. Athletes are athletes, that's all that should matter.

Everyone has a right to keep their privacy about such things... and to be honest I feel like making a big deal about coming out of the closet or celebrating acts that you may not even have participated in yet does a lot more to divide people than it does to promote acceptance or anything. It would be a refreshing change of pace if someone could just date someone of the same gender without everyone getting all excited about it.

 

[Trifoilum]

I'm mostly wondering about how much of them is closeted, etc, etc.

From a standard sports viewer's perspective, I can see how the homosexual community's 'agenda' might have bothered your viewings, what with the apparent sociopolitical vibe again, and again, and again. IN THE OLYMPICS AS WELL?

But from the homosexual community. Do understand their perspective. Sports had and always been -THE- stereotypical masculine activity, the ever elusive sign of heterosexuals (whatever it is). Another is military, but as far as the US are concerned you are making a leap in that side. Having more GLBTQ (or taking the cue from a webcomic I saw, QUILTBAG) athletes in sports, especially one as huge as the Olympics, will send strong supportive message to aspiring GLBTQ athletes ('look, you can be GLBTQ and still kick ass and BE AWESOME') and society as the whole. ('look, we GLBTQ athletes are JUST LIKE YOU NORMAL PEOPLE.')

True, their focus was in performing good. But the point is not to distract them from their performance and more letting them perform freely in spite of who they are. From the links, I don't think any of them are openly talking about it during the Olympics; most are taken from an article, or from their Facebook page, etc.

If they don't feel like waving their sexuality flag, then fine. But if they are closeted, or otherwise if there are GLBTQ athletes forbidden / not chosen to join the Olympics due to their sexuality and not due to their skills, that'd be...not so fine. I think we're all agreeing on this? (and I essentially agreed with [MENTION=1579]Odyne[/MENTION]. She explained it better than I ever could ;__

That said, WHY MOST OF THEM ARE LESBIANS DAMMIT WHERE IS TEH MENNZZZZ